Indonesia: 'green water navy'

Sandhi Yudha

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
Ananda said:
Some Shipyards call this design PC-60 or OPV-60. It's basically KCR-60 design without SSM and tone down armament also in speed (28 knt in KRC-60 vs 24 knt in PC/OPV-60). It will be used by TNI-AL 1st fleet for Patrol duties mostly in Riau Islands - Malaca Strait.
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The PC-60 is really a huge downgrade from the KCR-60. Maybe the PC-60 will not need anti-ship missiles during peace time, but also the maingun at the front is downgraded from 57 mm to 40 mm, the two M71/08 20 mm to 12,7 mm machineguns and even the maximum speed is decreased from 28 to 24 kts.

|"The boat is armed with a 40mm Oto Melara naval gun, and two 12.7mm FN Herstal heavy machine guns."|

Does this means that the boats will get the Oto Melara DARDO twin 40 mm gun?




More photos from KRI R.E.Martadinata 331 during MILAN 2022.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499936598372544517
 
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Ananda

Ananda

The Bunker Group
Sandhi Yudha said:
this means that the boats will get the Oto Melara DARDO twin 40 mm gun?
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TNI-AL has many surplus Bofors 40mm L70, many from retired LST. Some of them reposition in new LST, however considering this is Patrol Boats, it's probable they will got refurbished L70. Afterall some of them also temporary used as interim maim gun in KCR60, before new 57mm come.
 
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deadlast

Member
Sandhi Yudha said:
Does this means that the boats will get the Oto Melara DARDO twin 40 mm gun?
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Ananda said:
TNI-AL has many surplus Bofors 40mm L70, many from retired LST. Some of them reposition in new LST, however considering this is Patrol Boats, it's probable they will got refurbished L70. Afterall some of them also temporary used as interim maim gun in KCR60, before new 57mm come.
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From rumor and the CGI drawing, seems like OTO Marlin 40 from Leonardo Italy is the one that they prefer for these PC60 boats.
 
Sandhi Yudha

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
deadlast said:
From rumor and the CGI drawing, seems like OTO Marlin 40 from Leonardo Italy is the one that they prefer for these PC60 boats.
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That makes sense, specially because the Marlin 30 mm version is already in use with several patrolboats. Training, maintenance, logistics, operation....all become more easier and cost efficient conpared to buy a 40 mm gun from another manufacturer.
 
Ananda

Ananda

The Bunker Group
deadlast said:
seems like OTO Marlin 40 from Leonardo Italy is the one that they prefer for these PC60 boats.
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Yes, I know the rumours also say that. However will they got that or getting TNI-AL surplus Bofors 40mm L70, is the questions. It's all back to how far in priority list of TNI-AL on getting new armament or using surplus armanent for Patrol Boats, will be.
 
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deadlast

Member
Ananda said:
Yes, I know the rumours also say that. However will they got that or getting TNI-AL surplus Bofors 40mm L70, is the questions. It's all back to how far in priority list of TNI-AL on getting new armament or using surplus armanent for Patrol Boats, will be.
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Well, seeing that almost all PC40 get new OTO Marlin WS 30mm and the news also specifically mention OTO Marlin 40 cannon for the prior batch built in Banten, my hopes are high that they will get it, we'll see though whether this will materialize in the end for all of the boat on this class.
 
Sandhi Yudha

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
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deadlast

Member
Sandhi Yudha said:
Yes, i expect that all the three 80 meter vessels will get the Aselsan SMASH 30 mm, this is way better than only a machine gun or assault rifles and pistols.

The convenient thing from this variant of the SMASH is that the sensors are all installed on the turret.
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They ordered four total for BAKAMLA, 1 for 110m OPV & 3 for 80m OPV.

Yes, most of Navy RCWS also fitted with integrated sensor on each gun despite most of them act as the ship main gun, instead of investing in proper stand alone FCR/EO mast, away from the gun smoke and recoil while firing. The only class getting proper RCWS-EO slave system are the Bung Tomo-class DS30B RCWS paired with Radamec 2500 EO weapon director.
 
OPSSG

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
deadlast said:
They ordered four total for BAKAMLA, 1 for 110m OPV & 3 for 80m OPV.

Yes, most of Navy RCWS also fitted with integrated sensor on each gun despite most of them act as the ship main gun, instead of investing in proper stand alone FCR/EO mast, away from the gun smoke and recoil while firing. The only class getting proper RCWS-EO slave system are the Bung Tomo-class DS30B RCWS paired with Radamec 2500 EO weapon director.
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Thank you for educating us on the specs of these OPVs that will be facing off against the Chinese and Vietnamese coast guards.

Hopefully at MLU stage, these BAKAMLA vessels will get better sensors instead of being cued by off-boat sensors.
 
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T.C.P

Well-Known Member
Sandhi Yudha said:
The PC-60 is really a huge downgrade from the KCR-60. Maybe the PC-60 will not need anti-ship missiles during peace time, but also the maingun at the front is downgraded from 57 mm to 40 mm, the two M71/08 20 mm to 12,7 mm machineguns and even the maximum speed is decreased from 28 to 24 kts.

|"The boat is armed with a 40mm Oto Melara naval gun, and two 12.7mm FN Herstal heavy machine guns."|

Does this means that the boats will get the Oto Melara DARDO twin 40 mm gun?




More photos from KRI R.E.Martadinata 331 during MILAN 2022.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499936598372544517
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Can someone informed tell me of Indonesia's expereince with the C-705 family. I know there was a failure during an excercise, but is Indonesia still taking part in the joint development and are the KCR-60s still primarily armed with the C-705?
 
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tonnyc

Well-Known Member
T.C.P da Devil said:
Can someone informed tell me of Indonesia's expereince with the C-705 family. I know there was a failure during an excercise, but is Indonesia still taking part in the joint development and are the KCR-60s still primarily armed with the C-705?
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There has been zero news regarding Indonesia's involvement with C-705 and I believe the project is dead. For obvious reason there is no official announcement but it is notable that the newer KCR-60 use Terma fire control systems rather than a Chinese one. I don't have time to look up the old Indonesian news articles again, but I'm sure we discussed it here in this thread too, so try searching for Terma in this thread.

There has been rumour that the KCR-60M has had their C-705 removed, though there is also rumour that they have been put back, but the newer ones do not have a missile system yet. There are Indonesian news articles saying that the newer ones use Exocets, but as far as I know they are not installed yet.

My guess is that the first batch of KCR-60M will retain their C-705 but subsequent ones will eventually use Exocets.
 
Ananda

Ananda

The Bunker Group
Add to tonnyc post, C705 still being used by KCR60 little brother KCR40.


That's video on latest exercise on C705 KCR40 with target old TNI-AL tanker. This exercise shown C705 working well.

However as tonnyc put, the 2nd and 3rd batch of KCR60 already using Terma fire control instead Chinese made fire control on KCR40 and 1st batch KCR60. Indicating they will move from C705 toward Euro SSM (big potential Exocet).

C705 project actually for Indonesia to build their own SSM using China as partner. However the project seems not progressing and now Indonesia choose to reverse engineer C705 to build their own indigenous version.

Direktorat Jenderal Potensi Pertahanan Kemhan RI

www.kemhan.go.id www.kemhan.go.id

This has been put in this thread couple years ago. Not much news on the progress, I suspect due to Covid. However the project still not been cancelled, and it is been rumours Indonesia domestic propelant still need to be further redevelop to reach ideal velocity. Also rumours initial reverse engineer on Chinese electronics being shelved, and will use Euro partner for getting better performance.

3f1ad2c4-d4cb-4acb-a3cb-0cfc5ff20518.JPG

Just add the reverse engineering model. This also has been put in this thread sometimes ago.
 
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T.C.P

Well-Known Member
@tonnyc and @Ananda thank you for your responses. Its a pity the Chinese failed to properly develop the C-705 to meet Indonesia's requirements, hopefully they learn from this and improve it.

The C-802 and C-704 family are my nation's primary Anti ship missiles, and we will probably never be sold Western missiles, so its all we got.

I wish the Indonesian indigenous missile deveopments all the success, in the future who knows, we might end up being one of the potential customers.
 
K

koxinga

Well-Known Member
Ananda said:
However as tonnyc put, the 2nd and 3rd batch of KCR60 already using Terma fire control instead Chinese made fire control on KCR40 and 1st batch KCR60. Indicating they will move from C705 toward Euro SSM (big potential Exocet).
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It is more likely to be a member of the MARTE family (MARTE ER). That would be the Euro equivalent of the C705.

Doesn't make sense (economically, as well as practically) to put a large, heavy and expensive SSM on the KCR60/40. That was why a cheaper (along with promises of local production) C705 was selected in the first place.
 
Ananda

Ananda

The Bunker Group
koxinga said:
It is more likely to be a member of the MARTE family (MARTE ER). That would be the Euro equivalent of the C705.
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Logically it should be missile that have similar dimensions with C705, and yes Marte ER make the configuration. It is also come from MBDA, and considering MBDA familiarities with Indonesian defense procurement commitee, it is can be big probable.

However so far no SSM talk with MBDA asside Exocet that I can gather. In fact TNI-AL now talking with Kongsberg on NSM with potential implementation on 'stealth' Missile Boat Kelewang class.

foto.tempo.co

Naval Strike Missile, Rudal Mematikan yang Diincar oleh TNI AL

TNI AL mengincar Naval Strike Missile (NSM) dari Kongsberg yang memiliki jangkauan lebih dari 185 km
foto.tempo.co foto.tempo.co

However it is actually in my opinion back to the progress of Indonesian MinDef program of C705 reverse engineering, that I put above. If they can progressing successfully, then that kind of SSM that can be the backbone on missile boats or even shore based SSM.

In the meantime, one of Indonesia Bloggers call 'Industry Made in Indonesia' FB page already put picture of first PC-60 that going to be launch soon.

FB_IMG_1647152517458.jpg

Will be interesting to see the arrangements on the stern section, cause it is where most of the difference between PC-60 and KCR-60 will be.
 
Ananda

Ananda

The Bunker Group
www.brin.go.id

BRIN – TNI AL Jajaki Kerja Sama Pembangunan Kapal Patroli

Surabaya, Humas BRIN. Badan Riset dan Inovasi Nasional (BRIN) melalui Pusat Riset Teknologi Hidrodinamika (PRTH) dan Laboratorium Teknologi Hidrodinamika Surabaya menerima kunjungan dari Kepala Dinas…
www.brin.go.id www.brin.go.id

This is the link to the full article that the Twitter you've put based on. Since last year they have work on the design, and already prepared ceremony on building the first OPV90 with local Shipyards DRU.

Based on the article the design still need to be fine tuning. Yes, the Twitter guy say the length increase from 90 to 95, however so far they still call it OPV90. So increase the length to 95 only now still his rumours. Seems TNI-AL not satisfied with the design, and ask BRIN to take over the design.

Whether this means the OPV 90 production with DRU will also be adjusted, that's what not clear.
 
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