India's MBT: Arjun and its standing among Tanks

[Awang se]

PLAbuddy, you continue to ignore my warnings and choose to a stupid kid. A temp ban will be placed on you shortly.

Everyone else ignore his childish comment and continue with discussion.

some of the kiddos in this forum think a tank can be made by waving a magic wand on the chunk of metal.

 

[Awang se]

If i remember correctly, the problem with arjun is with it's chassis right? it's to heavy or something like that.

 

[ajay_ijn]

There is nothing called Arjun-2.
Some changes made for Arjun were better engine and fire control system thats all.
I don't know why some of them are discussing about Ajrun-2 which itself does not exist.
There is only one version of Arjun MBT.
We just can predict in the future that DRDO might be making something called Arjun-2.
DRDO hasn't made any claims that they will developed improved version of Arjun Tank.

Apologies for my previous comments, CVRDE made a proposal to develop a Arjun Mk.II prototype with an local made 1500hp engine but no news about what happened to the Mk-II Prototype now.
Mk-II is to have some better features.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/Arjun.html

About Lahat fitted to the Arjun tank.
Its two main features are ,It easily fits into any normal MBT and its ability of indirect target designation.

It has range of 8-13km,Tandem warhead,800mm of penetration,Semi active Laser homing guidance.

Lahat can be fired from hidden place or using remote designation for better protection for tank.

The Missile can be fired from one tank(Hidden) and guidance can be given by another Tank or Helicopters or by forward observers or by indirect designation.

Lahat can be fitted into tanks with minimal modification.It can be stowed like other tank rounds in the ammo rack and can be handled like any other type of ammunition.
Its compatible with all 120mm and 105mm Tank Guns.
http://www.defense-update.com/directory/lahat.htm

 

[Salman78]

Arjun would rank quite low among other tanks due to a whole range of limitations and technical problems. Well its pride for the nation alright and big morale boster for the public. Thats where it really stands.

 

[arjun]

Arjun would rank quite low among other tanks due to a whole range of limitations and technical problems. Well its pride for the nation alright and big morale boster for the public. Thats where it really stands.

Tank need battle field to prove wat it is really when one day arjun will be in real battle than world can see wat is arjun and no any invation is done in just one time every thing takes time to grove up natural rule even chield take time to be groven arjun ajaya was child arjun is in young age and it will be mature when time will come and world will see real power of arjun or other birth of arjun with other name. and no any nation or soilder is enemy until it stand among other country on war. Every nation know how to fight on war it is just depend how powerful your nation is so not to warry.

 

[SABRE]

Some one was asking me to provide link to where it states that India rejected Arjun. Sorry couldnt find him the link cause I dint look for it to tell you the fact .

Anyways a new news has come out. Its not clear in messege & doesnt say clearly that it has been rejected but the head line says it. We'll give you more when more develops.

India Rejects Arjun Main Battle Tanks
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Indian Ministry of Defence
Fri, 26 Aug 2005, 09:40
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NEW DELHI: The first batch of five production version of Arjun tanks, was scheduled to go through comparative trials in June 2005 by Army.

During the preparatory stage, certain units did not pass acceptance criteria. These are being rectified for the trials.

This information was given by the Defence Minister Shri Pranab Mukherjee in a written reply to Shri Lalit Suri in Rajya Sabha today.


Source: DefenceTalk News
Link: http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publish/article_003166.php
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[SU 30MKI]

Some one was asking me to provide link to where it states that India rejected Arjun. Sorry couldnt find him the link cause I dint look for it to tell you the fact .

Anyways a new news has come out. Its not clear in messege & doesnt say clearly that it has been rejected but the head line says it. We'll give you more when more develops.

[/left]

This also shows that high standard of Indian precurement policy and Army need more advance which is more advance then T-90 which is now benchmark

 

[SABRE]

This also shows that high standard of Indian precurement policy and Army need more advance which is more advance then T-90 which is now benchmark

Actualy it only shows the failure of the tank.

Here is more on Arjun.

Some Arjun systems not up to the mark: Pranab

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NEW DELHI: The Government on Wednesday admitted in Parliament that certain systems of the indigenously developed main battle tank Arjun had not met the Army's acceptance criteria. These units were being rectified and more ruggedisation was being introduced to withstand abnormal peak temperatures, Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee told the Rajya Sabha during Question Hour.

Army sources said last month's comparative trials of the Arjun with the T-90 tanks at Mahajan range in Rajasthan had to be postponed and the Chief of the Army Staff J. J. Singh cancelled his visit after preparatory tests of the crucial fire control system (FCS) developed snags. "The Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO) has asked for more time. The imported FCS system is not working as it should,'' said the sources.

The sources said the Army was unhappy with the "pressure" being put by the DRDO to induct two Arjun tanks in each of the 62 regiments in the absence of a transfer of technology agreement for the FCS. "This system will have to be sent to the manufacturing country if it develops snags. That is not feasible in the event of hostilities. The system should be such that it inspires confidence in the user,'' they maintained.

Officials claimed that the power-to-weight ratio of the Arjun tank was not optimum and it had less agility than the T-90 tanks of Russian origin now being manufactured in the country. Moreover, components, including the wheels, engines and hydraulic systems amounting to three-fourths of the value of the tank were imported. However, they said the DRDO was arguing that the Army favoured the T-90 tanks and repeated trials were held to counter this argument. The tank met all the requirements forwarded by the Army to the DRDO but during actual ground tests some of the systems were yet to perform to the Army's satisfaction.

At the same time, they concede that a new platform does undergo teething problems. In the case of the T-90 tanks, the night vision device, an important component to fight a round-the-clock war, had failed. Subsequent interaction with its makers coupled with assistance from the DRDO had rectified the problem. "We are not opposed to the concept of an indigenous product. But we should be confident that it will perform well in all conditions," they said.

by: Sandeep Dikshit
Link: http://www.hindu.com/2005/07/28/stories/2005072815591200.htm

And in an other news artical

Arjun MBTs dogged by fresh snags

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NEW DELHI: Thirty one years after the project was conceived, the country's ambitious plans to field an indigenous Main Battle Tank (MBT) Arjun has run into fresh problems, with certain systems failing acceptance criteria. Though the previous NDA government cleared the first bulk production of 124 tanks, those models are being further subjected to additional performance trials by the army, which is not yet satisfied with the tanks.

"During preparatory trials, certain systems have not met the acceptance criteria," according to Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee. His comments assume significance as army has expressed dissatisfaction with the tanks during exhaustive operational trials.

This is the second time in over three years that army has pointed out snags in the performance of the tanks, as earlier during operation 'Parakaram', the armoured crews had found faults with the tanks' various systems. "These faults are being rectified," Mukherjhee said as the first batch of five Arjun tanks out of the production lot would be going for comparative trials with the army's just-acquired Russian frontline T-90 tanks.

The Minister said as part of new quality measures "more ruggedisation had been introduced in the tanks to withstand peak performance."

According to defence ministry sources, DRDO has already incurred an expenditure of about Rs 3,300 crore on the development and production of the Arjun Tanks from 1976, when the cabinet gave the go-ahead for its development till date. Though the go-ahead for 125 tanks has been cleared by the Government, only five tanks have rolled out, besides some more tanks, which were handed over to the army for emergency trials before 'Parakaram'.

To make matters worse, Pakistan which began development work on its indigenous Al Khalid Main battle tank after India has already started inducting the tank into its armoured elements.

The Parliamentary Standing Committee on Defence has already expressed alarm over the delay in the project and even gone to the extent of calling for carrying out "performance audit" for DRDO to such sensitive national security programmes.

It has also said that both DRDO and Ordnance Factory Board "cannot be absolved of their prime responsibility to ensure that production model of the Arjun tanks meets user requirements in every respect." Stung by strong criticism, DRDO officials claim that Arjun tanks have superior armour defeating capability, day and night operational capability, remarkable mobility, high degree of immunity and fire on the move capability and excellent ride comfort.
Officials are now claiming that the Arjun Tank is superior to T-90 due to its high power to weight ratio, superior fire and move capability and excellent ride comfort.

But arms experts say the main problem of the Arjun tank is its bulkiness, which makes it almost a sitting tank to new generation of anti-tank missiles.

To reduce the height to weight ratio, DRDO scientists had a couple of years back tried to marry the Arjun gun turret with T-72 chasis naming the new tank as Tank-X, but it found no takers.

Hit by this indecisiveness, the Avadi Ordnance factory board plant is yet to produce 14 tanks which it was scheduled to by the year-end.

The factory is to roll out 25 tanks in 2005-06, 40 tanks by 2006-07 and 45 by 2007-08, so all eyes are now on next month's camparative trials with the T-90 tanks.

Alarmed by the slow pace of induction of the Arjun MBTs, the Parliamentary Standing Committee has called for re-structuring of the procurement plan of the army to provide for increased induction in numbers of these tanks by the 11th and 12th army plans, as replacement for T-72 tanks.


Link:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-1186760,curpg-1.cms

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Now I may have been worng on Arjun getting cancelled but its moving towards it. If I was Indian Defence Minister I would have settled for T-90 & its ToT.​

 

[SU 30MKI]

you only proved one point, that it dosen;t pass the Benchmark set by T-90

Chessers , While India is set the benchmark T-90. So Arjun has to prove its worth above then T90, got it.

[ Admin Edit: This is arjun thread - related to INDIA only - Lets keep it that way. ]

 

[P.A.F]

you only proved one point, that it dosen;t pass the Benchmark set by T-90

Chessers , While India is set the benchmark T-90. So Arjun has to prove its worth above then T90, got it.

India defence it totally differnt from Pak, where in Pak, made in things acceptable and projected a winner but different from reality, .......see JF 17 Radar.

SU-30MKI, what is ur problem. why the **** do u have to b ring up pakistan into a indian discussion. Your tit for tat discussion are kind of like getting on my nerves so please stop it.:nono

 

[SABRE]

I dint prove any point. You have taken it by ur self. All I wanted to show was that Indian government & military has excepted the problems. If they are doing so than you can not deny it. Arjun is facing trouble & may face cancelation in favor of T-90.

 

[kashifshahzad]

India Rejects Arjun Main Battle Tanks

India Rejects Arjun Main Battle Tanks
Indian Ministry of Defence
Fri, 26 Aug 2005, 09:40


NEW DELHI: The first batch of five production version of Arjun tanks, was scheduled to go through comparative trials in June 2005 by Army.

During the preparatory stage, certain units did not pass acceptance criteria. These are being rectified for the trials.

This information was given by the Defence Minister Shri Pranab Mukherjee in a written reply to Shri Lalit Suri in Rajya Sabha today.



URL of this article:
http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publish/article_003166.php

Again they would be heading towards the Russian tanks so sad it wasnt aple to pass acceptance criteria

 

[webmaster]

Re: India Rejects Arjun Main Battle Tanks

This is already posted and discussed here:

http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=649

Locking!

 

[sinwave2]

Leopard 111?? There is no Leopard 111.

Isn't the Arjun a modified version of the Vickers MBT??

No Sir, "Vijayanta" was the modofied copy of the Vixkers MBT, but gues that has been pahsed out of the IA recently. Anyhow, it had been relegated to bein the secind line of defence (whatever that means) a long back. This issue had been under discussion some time back, if I remember correctly.

 

[ger_mark]

Leopard 111?? There is no Leopard 111.

Isn't the Arjun a modified version of the Vickers MBT??

i think he meaned Leopard2 A3 wich had a weight of only 55 tons
a friend of me was driver on a3 in early 90's

 

[armyreco1]

New Data Sheet about the MBT Arjun

Hello guys,


See update to Army Recognition site, Technical Data Sheet an pictures about the Main battle tank from India, the Arjun.
Write in French, but you have a traductor to the left of the page.

http://www.armyrecognition.com/Asie/Inde/vehicules_lourds/Arjun/Arjun_Inde_description.htm

Greetings.

Alain

 

[webmaster]

Re: New Data Sheet about the MBT Arjun

Thread merged.

Please try to post results that are in english - translation does not work.

 

[ArjunMK1]

Arjun's trumph card against T90 is its better protection and 120 mm rifled gun which is having better range than Russian 125mm smooth bore guns !!

In one-one confrontation the probability of the T90 getting killed is much more due to superior gun of Arjun and the better protection of the latter !! Also the Lahat missile of Arjun is much better and having longer range than AT11 (sniper) missile of T90.

 

[kingkobra]

Arjun's trumph card against T90 is its better protection and 120 mm rifled gun which is having better range than Russian 125mm smooth bore guns !!

In one-one confrontation the probability of the T90 getting killed is much more due to superior gun of Arjun and the better protection of the latter !! Also the Lahat missile of Arjun is much better and having longer range than AT11 (sniper) missile of T90.

I dont unstand why india is not colobrating with Isreal to slove problems with Arjun and why dont use same engine as Fcs and other system as Isreali Marakava tank.if just it is heavy wait so it is useless that does not make sense if u think like that then all tank like Abraham,Lepord etc... have much weight then arjun.

 

[dabrownguy]

It's a political problem now. Not technical.