India's MBT: Arjun and its standing among Tanks

[ajay_ijn]

any one have pic of rajun II and any one have idea how much weight it have what is future of arjun and how it is batter then arjun I

There is nothing called Arjun-2.
Some changes made for Arjun were better engine and fire control system thats all.
I don't know why some of them are discussing about Ajrun-2 which itself does not exist.
There is only one version of Arjun MBT.
We just can predict in the future that DRDO might be making something called Arjun-2.
DRDO hasn't made any claims that they will developed improved version of Arjun Tank.

 

[Pendekar]

it seems like a spinning APDS have better armor penetration capability then the fin stabilized version.

 

[arjun]

i dont know many more about tanks but i think as arjun have problrm of weight then most best thing is tank for indian army is tank ex they can give choice tank ex as mbt or they can still change body of arjun for less weight as like they made tank ex india need to slove weight problem with arjun they can use best thing and future of arjun but they must change down part and engine to slove arjun's weight problem sorry if i said any thing rong as i know basic i am following basic things

 

[PLAbuddy]

i ve heard that 65% of ajun has to be imported from other nations.

if that is true..then ajun cant be called an indian tank

 

[ajay_ijn]

if that is true..then ajun cant be called an indian tank

Still the basic Hull Design is made by DRDO.
Parts of Arjun had many other sucessful uses.

The imp part of Tank i.e the Tanks Armor (ERA) was developed by DRDO.

Tank EX and Bhim SP artillery used Many parts of Arjun.

I don't know if its 65% or not.
If its 65% then Arjun might be in service long ago.
I don't know if Arjun will become a Sucess in Battlefield but Tank-EX looks more reliable and Sucessful.

 

[adsH]

If the Tank is even assembled in India then its called an Indian Tank!
the Arjun is not a Sucess! the Mk2 Arjun should be alot better, since there are Israelis working on the Project and India has T-90 production which can provide them with some insights.

 

[PLAbuddy]

i am not so sure of the capability of India's industry...like can they make good stuff?

look wut happened here....
http://globalsecurity.org/military/world/india/t-72.htm

l

 

[gf0012-aust]

Some of these comments are starting to become borderline flames.

It would be a good idea to settle down, I can pick any country on earth and point out problems with military projects - it's not exactly something unique.

I can assure you that as soon as others start pointing out development failures in other countries as a defensive response, that this will degrade rapidly.

No country is immune from project problems, so lets try and be a little civilised about how we respond in future.

 

[PLAbuddy]

i dont get wut r u saying, i am just pointing out wut i ve seen on a very reliable source....

 

[Pathfinder-X]

Next time quote your source or don't make such comment. I've been away from the forum for two days and the monkeys are already getting active.

 

[ajay_ijn]

If the Tank is even assembled in India then its called an Indian Tank!
the Arjun is not a Sucess! the Mk2 Arjun should be alot better, since there are Israelis working on the Project and India has T-90 production which can provide them with some insights.

Failure in development or failure in Battlefield.
Arjun might become a logistical burden but might perform like a Tiger(ww2) on the battlefield.
If u see at the Tiger tank during ww2,It had nearly similar problems like Arjun Very heavy weight,Unreliable Engine but Tiger created fear in the minds of allied soldiers.

I don't know about what mk2 are u talking about.
India is not developing any other version of Arjun presently.

there are Israelis working on the Project

If isrealis helped DRDO in Arjun development then it would have been lot more better.
Its easier to ask foriegn help but its lot tougher to develop on its own.
Even though some parts of Arjun are from other countries but DRDO Did develop many components for the tank.

If the Tank is even assembled in India then its called an Indian Tank!

Not exactly ,T-90's are assembled in India then is it a India Tank???

i am not so sure of the capability of India's industry...like can they make good stuff?

look wut happened here....
http://globalsecurity.org/military/world/india/t-72.htm

True,India had problems with its T-72 fleet.
But now Sucessfully upgraded and even developed a new Tank Called Tank ex is developed from T-72 and Arjun components.
Sucess and Failure are part of a life.

 

[PLAbuddy]

say this to Pathfinder-X



i posted my source u moron....u monkey plz look my post one day before:

i am not so sure of the capability of India's industry...like can they make good stuff?

look wut happened here....
http://globalsecurity.org/military/world/india/t-72.htm

see the source? open ur monkey eyes?

Mod edit: Path: Feeling combative? Just because you have edited your earlier reply does not mean that you never violated the rules of posting. I'll leave your comments up so others see what you have said. This is your first warning.

 

[adsH]

“â€â€It had nearly similar problems like Arjun Very heavy weight, Unreliable Engine but Tiger created fear in the minds of allied soldiers.â€â€â€



Unfortunately this Indian Tiger (AKA Arjun) won't be “creating†Striking any Fear Except the Fear of Immobility in the heart of its operators, you can’t have a Metal fortress fight a war on the thin sands of Rajistan. Right on the other hand the T-90 changes everything. !! Have they fixed the Transient Error (Heat Related) problem on the T-90?

At one time Ukraine and Russia, as two great tank powers, took two different ways of tank engine development. Ukrainian constructors chose the Diesel direction, while Russian ones the gas turbine, like many other countries. Now, according to the words of the chief designer of Ukraine armored troops, head of the Kharkov machine-building design office lieutenant general Mikhail Borisyuk, when the principal prominent buyers of armored equipment are located in countries with hot climate, the stability of engines with the ambient air temperature higher than 50 degrees has become one of the key factors for tanks reliability. In the extreme conditions of hot climate gas-turbine engines of China and Poland, created on the base of B-1, B-2 engine types, Russian engines, having had serious problems during testing in India, started to receive transient errors. At the same time Ukrainian engines on the tanks T-80UD, provided to Pakistan, showed high reliability.http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/pakistan/mbt-2000.htm

 

[PLAbuddy]

Mod edit: Path: When you have complain or grudge against me or any other mod, use the PM system. Irrelevant replies deleted and you are dangerously close your your second warning.

 

[PLAbuddy]

wut the wrong with u man?
i am talking with proof here and hope u can reply about that article..

let say my main idea again: india's defence industry has some problems to build the best tank in the world...

 

[ajay_ijn]

Unfortunately this Indian Tiger (AKA Arjun) won't be “creating†Striking any Fear Except the Fear of Immobility in the heart of its operators, you can’t have a Metal fortress fight a war on the thin sands of Rajistan

U have made that Conclusion just by Considering Arjun's Weight.

Arjun has low Ground Pressure of 0.84 Kg/sq.cm and Power to Weight Ratio is 23.93 Hp/ton which shows that Arjun will have Decent Mobility.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/Arjun.html

If u Compare it with T-90, Arjun is Slightly better.
T-90 has Ground Pressure of 0.938 Kg/sq.cm and Power to Weight Ratio is
20 Hp/ton.
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/t-90.htm
Al-Khalid has better than Power to Weight Ratio than Arjun of 26 Hp/ton and is said to have better Ground Pressure..

Here is what DRDO has to say about Arjun's Mobility.
http://www.drdo.com/products/mbt.htm

Mobility

Low ground pressure, high power-to-weight ratio and new design concepts in transmission suspension and
running gear result in highly mobile and agile weapon platform.

The remarkable mobility of MBT which also adds to its protection is the result of:

• High performance engine
• Robust and effective transmission system particularly flexible hydropneumatic suspension .
• Optimized running gear with its high shock energy absorption.

Due to the high power-to-weight ratio and low specific ground pressure, MBT is fast, highly manoeuvrable and extremely mobile to cross the most difficult terrain with ease. High acceleration rapid braking capabilities with excellent steering characteristics make MBT agile in the battlefield. Adequate fuel storage capacity and relatively low fuel consumption allow for an optimal operational range.

An important criterion for the mobility of any AFV is the effective performance of the driver. Excellent vision systems both for day and night provide most effective means of observation in all battlefield conditions. The need to keep the crew's fatigue including that of driver at the minimum level over long periods of continuous operation, have been taken care of.

I have found a new nick name for Arjun MBT,the Indian Tiger.
I can never forget the Legendary Micheal Wittman, I think his Company smashed the British 7th Armored Division(Infamous Desert Rats).

Have they fixed the Transient Error (Heat Related) problem on the T-90?

Rumoured that T-90 engine have some problems but Indian army never reported that.
And some say that problem has been solved.
Till I know Russians are Masters in making Tank Engines.
T-90S has powerful 1000hp V-92S2 four stroke Engine.
http://armor.kiev.ua/fofanov/Tanks/EQP/v_diesels.html


The most Disappointing about Indian T-90 is they are not having Shotra LASER Jamming System.

 

[PLAbuddy]

Ajun is a great start for India's tank industry, i am sure of it,
if India fixes those problems Ajun have and add the experience of building T-90 into the designing of Ajun2....that will be a hell of tank coming to this world (dont forget the laser stuff, very important)

 

[Revenant]

“â€â€It had nearly similar problems like Arjun Very heavy weight, Unreliable Engine but Tiger created fear in the minds of allied soldiers.â€â€â€



Unfortunately this Indian Tiger (AKA Arjun) won't be “creating†Striking any Fear Except the Fear of Immobility in the heart of its operators, you can’t have a Metal fortress fight a war on the thin sands of Rajistan. Right on the other hand the T-90 changes everything. !! Have they fixed the Transient Error (Heat Related) problem on the T-90?

:lol And what kind of unbelivable crap is that?! I mean that quote from 'global security'. Poland has never produced gas-turbine tank engines. Only multifuel diesel ones (W-46.6, S-12U, S-850, S-1000)!! Also Russian T-90 has diesel engine (W-92S2). Only Russian T-80U/UM has gas-turbine. Ukrainian tanks have diesel engines (e.g. 6TD-1, 6TD-2) 'cause Charkov plant has produced only diesels since USSR times (5TD engine for T-64 MBTs).
W-92S2 engine of Russian T-90 proved itself to be reliable in hot climate conditions (e.g. trial tests of T-90S in India).

 

[aaaditya]

israelis are now involved in the arjun project however there are some differences between the indian and israeli tank designers in terms of the turret control(israelis prefer the electrical turret control system whereas the indians prefer the hydropneumatic system on the existing system.ican post this article since i dont know how to do it.this article appeared two weeks back in a news website and was posted on the bharat rakshak defence forum(army news and army discussions)along with the links.besides lahat missile would be the deciding factor(6-8kms range)israel is also to supply india 125mm ammunition technology(can anyone provide some information regarding the israeli shells and their penetration capability related to the pakistani ,chinese and russian shells)also according to the indian army chief arjun will have a more powerfull engine(hope israelis work on this project).arjuns mobility will not be a problem as it has been tested in the mahajan desert ranges of rajasthan and various regions of punjab(sites of several india-pak tank battles).also india's sarvatra and kartik bridge layer tanks can carry 60+tons and were designed with the arjun in mind,the makar class of vessels(lst's are also capable of carrying arjun tanks)'railways have also developed the trailers for the carriage of arjun tanks ,current trailers have load capability of 80+tons(each).

 

[Pathfinder-X]

PLAbuddy, you continue to ignore my warnings and choose to act like a stupid kid. A temp ban will be placed on you shortly.

Everyone else ignore his childish comment and continue with discussion.