India's MBT: Arjun and its standing among Tanks

[aaaditya]

hey guys here is an interesting article about the indian arjun main battle tank, i find this article interesting because it is the second time that i have seen a reference to a 1500hp engine on the arjun(the earlier ocassion was a drdo brochure during the defexpo2006).

one of the biggest complaints about the arjun main battle tank was that it was underpowered as it was equipped with a 1400hp german engine giving it a thrust to weight ratio of 23.93 hps/ton,whereas the 1500 hp engine gives it a thrust to weight ratio of 25.64 hps/ton a substantial increase.

i would like to know if anyone has any information on this 1500 hp engine,wether it is an indigenous engine or a modified version of the existing arjun engine or a new german or french engine?

here check out this link:

http://www.ipcs.org/IPCS-Special-Report-23.pdf

 

[ahussains]

hey guys here is an interesting article about the indian arjun main battle tank, i find this article interesting because it is the second time that i have seen a reference to a 1500hp engine on the arjun(the earlier ocassion was a drdo brochure during the defexpo2006).

one of the biggest complaints about the arjun main battle tank was that it was underpowered as it was equipped with a 1400hp german engine giving it a thrust to weight ratio of 23.93 hps/ton,whereas the 1500 hp engine gives it a thrust to weight ratio of 25.64 hps/ton a substantial increase.

i would like to know if anyone has any information on this 1500 hp engine,wether it is an indigenous engine or a modified version of the existing arjun engine or a new german or french engine?

here check out this link:

http://www.ipcs.org/IPCS-Special-Report-23.pdf

Thats really intersting again a bug change in ARJUN if they going to change the engine its structure may be also change and what about its chasis its not in the final phase yet after 25 years of research when its going to complete and we here the news of MASS production for indian ARMY i think its better to get some russian T 90's rather investing in ARJUN:nutkick

 

[kams]

hey guys here is an interesting article about the indian arjun main battle tank, i find this article interesting because it is the second time that i have seen a reference to a 1500hp engine on the arjun(the earlier ocassion was a drdo brochure during the defexpo2006).

one of the biggest complaints about the arjun main battle tank was that it was underpowered as it was equipped with a 1400hp german engine giving it a thrust to weight ratio of 23.93 hps/ton,whereas the 1500 hp engine gives it a thrust to weight ratio of 25.64 hps/ton a substantial increase.

i would like to know if anyone has any information on this 1500 hp engine,wether it is an indigenous engine or a modified version of the existing arjun engine or a new german or french engine?

here check out this link:

http://www.ipcs.org/IPCS-Special-Report-23.pdf

DRDO site on ARjun still says 1400 HP engine.

DRDO ARJUN

Thats really intersting again a bug change in ARJUN if they going to change the engine its structure may be also change and what about its chasis its not in the final phase yet after 25 years of research when its going to complete and we here the news of MASS production for indian ARMY i think its better to get some russian T 90's rather investing in ARJUN

Aaha , when it comes to India Bashing, your creativity over flows. Otherwise you simply copy what others have posted before. I can tell this is your original post because its full of mistakes.

 

[powerslavenegi]

Rubbish

Only a fool would term a 1400 HP Engine underpowered ,specially when even considerably heavier tanks like Leo2A5's,Abrams and Merks are using a 1500 HP as compared to a lighter Arjun Mk-II.As for transition from 1400Hp to 1500Hp engine to me is not that impressive however It would be intresting to know how much is the Displacement of the new engine as compared to older one,it's fuel efficiency and the effective range.I think one needs to have a decent trade off between above mentioned factors.1400 Hp engine might be a better choice if it offers better range and fuel economy with marginal short comings in terms of power and top speed.

 

[aaaditya]

Thats really intersting again a bug change in ARJUN if they going to change the engine its structure may be also change and what about its chasis its not in the final phase yet after 25 years of research when its going to complete and we here the news of MASS production for indian ARMY i think its better to get some russian T 90's rather investing in ARJUN:nutkick

arjun was always designed to accept a 1500hp engine ,but germany needed those engines for their own requirements as a result arjun was developed with the german 1400hp engine,but when the europack 2000 was developed germany offered it to india but as it was prohibitively expensive , india refused ,india then tried to develop an indigenous 1500hp engine (the project was taken up by the indian company ashok leyland) however they were not successfull ,hence iam wondering about the origin of this 1500 hp engine,it could be the indigenous engine developed with israeli or french assistance or it can be a turbosupercharged version of the german engine currently in service.

 

[aaaditya]

Only a fool would term a 1400 HP Engine underpowered ,specially when even considerably heavier tanks like Leo2A5's,Abrams and Merks are using a 1500 HP as compared to a lighter Arjun Mk-II.As for transition from 1400Hp to 1500Hp engine to me is not that impressive however It would be intresting to know how much is the Displacement of the new engine as compared to older one,it's fuel efficiency and the effective range.I think one needs to have a decent trade off between above mentioned factors.1400 Hp engine might be a better choice if it offers better range and fuel economy with marginal short comings in terms of power and top speed.

i hope you are not calling me a fool, because if you are doing that you must understand that all the battle tanks that you have mentioned are currently using a 1500hp engine. one advantage of the 1500 hp engine is that it gives a battle tank future growth option in terms of systems,for example the battle tank can carry additional armour or more electronics etc.

 

[aaaditya]

kams i believe that the last time drdo updated the specifications on its site were nearly 5 years back,by the way i have seen and have an image of the drdo placard from the 2006 defexpo where it has been claerly mentioned that arjun has a 1500 hp engine.

 

[Apocalypse]

Do you really think this is the only use of tanks nowadays?

And with which vehicles do you want to proceed normal attacks and mobile defenses against mechanized forces?
Why is everybody so focused on urban warfare. Just because you see the pictures from Bagdad so often in TV?
This is not a normal war.
Before you come to the point were you have to fight in the cities you have to beat the enemy in the field.
Every opponent who is not totally inferior will try to fight an open engagement which gives him room to maneuver and protects its own civilians and urban infrastructure.

I meant that, while tank vs. tank is a possibility, modern Indian armor has to stand up to militant/guerrilla enemies. The dismal performance of Merkavas vs. Hizbollah in Lebanon shows that.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-03-29-tank-inside_x.htm

 

[Waylander]

As I said before, for sure you have to be prepare for urban battles but in the end you have to beat the enemy army in a traditional way BEFORE you enter the guerilla phase.
And especially India vs Pakistan is a scenario where two relatively modern armys would clash on each other and the mechanized forces would be the fist of both armys.

 

[amit0277]

The Arjun, Main Battle Tank is ready

Source: http://pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=20223

The Arjun, Main Battle Tank is ready. The project “Main Battle Tank, Arjun”, was sanctioned in May 1974. General Staff Qualitative Requirement was finalized in October 1985 and project was completed in March 1995. The indent for 124 tanks was placed by users in March 2000. These are currently under production at Heavy Vehicles Factory, Avadi. Tank-Ex has been built by Defence Research and Development Organistion (DRDO) to demonstrate a possible method to upgrade T-72 tanks, with a modular turret as a proactive step.

DRDO is involved in development of weapons and platforms as per the requirements of the users. To make the weapons user-friendly, users are involved in the project right from the developmental stage.

This information was given by the Defence Minister Shri Pranab Mukherjee in a written reply to Shri Ravi Prakash Verma and Shri Anandrao V Adsul in Lok Sabha today

 

[aaaditya]

well this proves that officically the arjun project began in year 1985,because that was when the general staff requirements were issued.

 

[parm]

T90 vs Arjun

Based on the numbers you have provided, the tank should be approx 58 tonnes

Lighter than an M1aX and a Chally 2

T90 anyday better then Arjun. first and most prominent is its boxy turret which makes it the easiest target tank in the world for anti tank missiles! all MBTs around the world are making smaller and slant shape turrets to deflect anti tank missiles and indian DRDO is using a 30 years old shape and design. no wonder it took them crores of rupees and 30 years to make a tank. and army refused to accept the tank after it failed trials!

 

[amit0277]

T90 anyday better then Arjun. first and most prominent is its boxy turret which makes it the easiest target tank in the world for anti tank missiles! all MBTs around the world are making smaller and slant shape turrets to deflect anti tank missiles and indian DRDO is using a 30 years old shape and design. no wonder it took them crores of rupees and 30 years to make a tank. and army refused to accept the tank after it failed trials!

As per MOD, ARJUN Tank is ready. http://pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=20223&kwd=

Army is more comfortable with Russian equipments. There are many features which is better than T90's. MOD is doing the right thing by pushing ARJUN Tanks to Army.

 

[parm]

As per MOD, ARJUN Tank is ready. http://pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=20223&kwd=

Army is more comfortable with Russian equipments. There are many features which is better than T90's. MOD is doing the right thing by pushing ARJUN Tanks to Army.

.

Questions=If indian army is MORE comfortable with russian equipments, why go for ARJUN? why T90s were inducted when DRDO was making ARJUN? why an upgraded version of ARJUN is now FORCED upon army called TANK EX? why was ARJUN developed with snags,then to be UPGRADED into TANK EX?why ARJUN failed field trials by ARMY? wait and watch the performance of ARJUN!

its just a face saving white elephant for DRDO! 30 years to make a tank!
:soldier

 

[amit0277]

.

Questions=If indian army is MORE comfortable with russian equipments, why go for ARJUN? why T90s were inducted when DRDO was making ARJUN? why an upgraded version of ARJUN is now FORCED upon army called TANK EX? why was ARJUN developed with snags,then to be UPGRADED into TANK EX?why ARJUN failed field trials by ARMY? wait and watch the performance of ARJUN!

its just a face saving white elephant for DRDO! 30 years to make a tank!
:soldier

Seems like you are not in favor of Indigenous equipments. By the way ARJUN and TANK EX are two different tank. TANK Ex is developed proactively by DRDO to show how to updgrade existing T-72's. Check out more on http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/ISSUE4-5/nitin.html. http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/T-72Rhino.html.

The problems which ARJUN had was all because of the IA not finalising the speficiation. ARJUN has a superior armour. Please check IPCS Special Report on ARJUN Tank at http://www.ipcs.org/IPCS-Special-Report-23.pdf.

 

[n21]

.

Questions=If indian army is MORE comfortable with russian equipments, why go for ARJUN? why T90s were inducted when DRDO was making ARJUN? why an upgraded version of ARJUN is now FORCED upon army called TANK EX? why was ARJUN developed with snags,then to be UPGRADED into TANK EX?why ARJUN failed field trials by ARMY? wait and watch the performance of ARJUN!

its just a face saving white elephant for DRDO! 30 years to make a tank!
:soldier

Answers= Indian army has been using T series for years and it's doctrine is based on it.Isn't that it is obvious it is comfortable with T series than Arjun.
Arjun brings about a reverse doctrine change from eastern to western type.What would be the response of Russian forces if you tell them to start using Leo or Chall ? don't u think you would get the same reply! even though every one knows these tanks are way better than T series.

T-90 inductions has to do with delay in development of Arjun,to fill in the numbers and introduction of T-80's by Pakistan. Show me one report which says T-90 was inducted because it is far superior than Arjun!

The production of T-90 has been increased to keep up the numbers as Arjun is more expensive than T-90 and cannot be inducted in huge numbers.

You have already got the reply regarding tank-ex.

India has never developed a tank on it's own.Hence anything first time will take a hell of time and there would be lot of problems with the product.But atleast India did try ... that is the plus point .
I am not saying DRDO is perfect,they wanted to develope each evry component of the tank themselves.This invariably let to delay.They have learnt from the mistake and there is a better plans now.

Moreover all the bashing of DRDO is done giving just two examples Arjun and LCA.I would like to see some current examples of failures .... for a change.

regarding the abilities of Arjun ..if you do take out some time to read this topic completely you would get all the details you would want.

field trials failures? productions problems.The productions units havent built a western design tank in ages...what do you expect of the first production batch? That doesn't mean that DRDO has not done the job.

 

[Reichsleiter]

i think arjun is not india's indigenius MBT, the DRDO guys are working on tank ex, the new MBT

 

[parm]

Answers= Indian army has been using T series for years and it's doctrine is based on it.Isn't that it is obvious it is comfortable with T series than Arjun.
Arjun brings about a reverse doctrine change from eastern to western type.What would be the response of Russian forces if you tell them to start using Leo or Chall ? don't u think you would get the same reply! even though every one knows these tanks are way better than T series.

T-90 inductions has to do with delay in development of Arjun,to fill in the numbers and introduction of T-80's by Pakistan. Show me one report which says T-90 was inducted because it is far superior than Arjun!

The production of T-90 has been increased to keep up the numbers as Arjun is more expensive than T-90 and cannot be inducted in huge numbers.

You have already got the reply regarding tank-ex.

India has never developed a tank on it's own.Hence anything first time will take a hell of time and there would be lot of problems with the product.But atleast India did try ... that is the plus point .
I am not saying DRDO is perfect,they wanted to develope each evry component of the tank themselves.This invariably let to delay.They have learnt from the mistake and there is a better plans now.

Moreover all the bashing of DRDO is done giving just two examples Arjun and LCA.I would like to see some current examples of failures .... for a change.

regarding the abilities of Arjun ..if you do take out some time to read this topic completely you would get all the details you would want.

field trials failures? productions problems.The productions units havent built a western design tank in ages...what do you expect of the first production batch? That doesn't mean that DRDO has not done the job.

Thanx for the answers and now we have to wait and see how the Arjun performs in battlefield.

 

[powerslavenegi]

i think arjun is not india's indigenius MBT, the DRDO guys are working on tank ex, the new MBT

Yeah it is not indigenious like F-7 and J-11.Anyways as contrary to your claims Arjun has more indian components as compared to the Tank-ex.The latter is supposed to be built arround proven T-72 chasis and Turret ,MG and FCS from the Arjun.

 

[Archer]

The biggest problem with the Arjun is its manufacturer, OFB- if it had been half as dedicated to its job like L&T or Tata who also work with DRDO on projects, the Arjun would be in mass production by now.