Indian Navy (IN) News and Discussion

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kakarat

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India says no to US P-3C Orion aircraft
Rahul Bedi (IANS)
New Delhi, February 4, 2006

In a rare 'no' to Washington, the Indian Navy has called off the leasing of two US Navy P-3C Orion maritime reconnaissance aircraft (MRA) on grounds they are too expensive.
The 18-24 months it would take the US Navy to retrofit the two aircraft to the Indian Navy specifications once the lease had been finalised also contributed to New Delhi opting out of the deal.
"The lease (of two P-3C Orions) is timed out. It was expensive and time-consuming," a senior Indian official associated with the lease negotiations said.
The US Navy is believed to have demanded Rs8 billion for the lease via the foreign military sales programme.
Fear of US sanctions, like the ones imposed following India's 1998 nuclear tests that led to the Indian Navy's entire Sea King MK42 fleet being grounded due to a shortage of spares, also influenced the navy's decision, officials indicated.
Sanctions on India -- and Pakistan for its nuclear tests -- were lifted in late 2001.
India's P-3C Orion lease was to be a precursor to purchasing eight others to augment its reconnaissance requirements which the navy presently considers "highly inadequate" for anti-piracy operations, narcotics control and to counter natural and ecological disasters like tsunami's or oil and chemical spills.
In anticipation, P-3C Orion manufacturers Lockheed Martin had signed a non-disclosure technical assistance agreement with Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd in Bangalore last year to share export controlled data related to technical and commercial proposals to retrofit the MRAs to the Indian Navy's requirements.
The Indian Navy has now sent out to MRA manufacturers in the US, France, Britain and Russia a request for proposals for the outright purchase of eight MRAs.
These will replace a similar number of Tupolev Tu 142 'Bear Foxtrot' MRAs that are being retired after negotiations with Russia and Israel to retrofit them were called off three years ago.
The Indian Navy confirmed that it was also involved in exploratory talks with Boeing Corp for possible involvement in the P-8A MMA it is developing based on the Boeing 737NG platform.
The Indian Navy believes that the P-8A would match the combined operational profile presently being executed by its existing fleet of Ilyushin Il-38 and Tu 142 MRAs.
It also considers its involvement in the Boeing MMA programme an 'evaluation' and 'test' of Washington's long-term military and strategic commitment to India and a possible counter to possible future sanctions.
Washington considers the Indian Navy a stabilising force in the Indian Ocean region and wants a closer working relationship with it as it straddles the strongest area of strategic convergence: sea-lane protection.
The US is also keen that the Indian Navy, which has a formidable presence in the Indian Ocean region, to officially join the Washington-led proliferation security initiative (PSI) which seeks to interdict vessels suspected of carrying weapons of mass destruction and associated equipment.
Meanwhile, the Indian Navy last month received the first of its five Il-38 MRAs upgraded to the Il-38 SD standard and equipped with the Morskoi Amei (Sea Dragon) radar system compatible with the navy's proposed strategic deterrence.
The remaining four similarly upgraded MRAs will be delivered to the Indian Navy by early next year. Two of these aircraft are replacements being provided by Rosonboronexport for the ones that crashed in October 2002.
Currently, the Indian Navy is dependent on its fleet of around 20 Dornier 228 aircraft and Israeli Searcher Mark II and Heron unmanned aerial vehicles to monitor India's 7,516-km long coastline, 1,197 islands and a two-million sq km exclusive economic zone.
 
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aaaditya

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the best part of this article is that indian navy is interested in the p8mma ,these aircrafts can very effectively replace both the bears and mays,and being based on commercial aircrafts platform ,the spare parts for the aircraft wont be a problem,though i would favour a a321 based solution.
 
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PLA2025

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I think India must also start to develop more indigenous weapon systems. Of course it takes much time and the first designs might not reach the Western and Russian standards. But if you only rely on foreign technology while don't support own engineers, you will always depend on others. In a conflict where you have to face your weapon supplier, it would mean no more spare parts etc. getting delivered.
China mostly has started to develop plenty of own stuff since the 1980's although the progress was very slow and the technology was still far obsolete to Western and Russian standards.
But there is no need to give up because of slow progress. We can all learn from mistakes and failures. India has obtained some US and Russian weapon systems and if they succeed in reverse-engineer them for understanding the technology, they could start develop from that point on which saves time.
 
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tphuang

Super Moderator
I'm guessing this has to be one of the 956EMs or else I can't see why it would travel through Indian Ocean to South China Sea.
 
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aaaditya

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tphuang said:
I'm guessing this has to be one of the 956EMs or else I can't see why it would travel through Indian Ocean to South China Sea.
Click to expand...
well the article claims that the warship was the latest sovremenny class of vessel ordered by china.
 
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pshamim

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Verified Defense Pro
In today's time photographing a vassel is not such a big deal. One can use satellites to so any time you want. Question is if IN learnt something new as far as the ship's capabilities are and how to combat it if and when it is needed.
 
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aaaditya

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well the pointed to be noted shamim is the range of the aircraft which was used for this purpose.

also it would be effective to photograph a ship from space but only if the ship comes within the sphere of influence of the satellite,it would be very expensive and would reduce the life of a satellite considerably if they have to reposistion to get a high resolution image of a ship.

that is the reason why most navies still rely on such mr aircrafts for spying purpose.
 
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aaaditya

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well guys hare ia an interesting news ,seems that india is planning to set up listening base in madagascar just like china set up at the cocc islands in burma.

here check out this link:

http://www.newsinsight.net/nati2.asp?recno=3615

I N T E L L I G E N C E

Indian Navy to lease station in Madagascar

15 February 2006: The Indian Navy is planning on a high tech monitoring station in Northern Madagascar to combat piracy in the Indian Ocean, terrorism and other crimes.

Crime in the high seas has shot up in the last four years, particularly in the Indian Ocean, but there is lack of timely law enforcement in the absence of infrastructure and coordination among states.

India will pay $2.5 million to lease the station, because it apprehends threats to its strategic naval assets and its political, economic and military interests in Africa, which has become a second base for the Al-Qaeda and other terrorist groups.
 
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aaaditya

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hey guys,finally the indian navy nuclear submarine project is moving ahead,the preasurised heavy water reactor has been minaturised and some tests would be carried this year.

here check out this link:

http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=88128



[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Sans-serif]VIZAG/NEW DELHI, FEB 17: With some progress finally made on the compact reactors that will ultimately power the country’s indigenous nuclear submarines, the advanced technology vessel (ATV) project facility at Visakhapatnam is being expanded for crucial tests scheduled for later this year. Speaking off the record, a government source in Visakhapatnam told The Indian Express, ‘‘Efforts to miniaturise the pressurised heavy water reactors that will power the submarines have made some progress, though lot of work is left. The nuclear establishment has conveyed to us that some preliminary tests could be carried out shortly.’’ He only indicated specific movement on the ATV’s dynamometer and drive turbine this year.

Unlike the highly concealed nature of the project itself, it is no secret that Russia is a key partner. However, after functioning under a somewhat unofficial advisory role, sources said Moscow has proposed the possibility of signing an advanced systems pact.



by the way guys can someone tell me what is a dynamometer and do conventional submarines have them.
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aaaditya

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hey guys seems the indian navy will be setting up a second submarine line with private participation,the competition is likely to be between the german hdw214 and the russo-italian submarine.

the russo-italian submarine is to be based on the russian amur lada design will be smaller than the kilo (available in displacements of 900-1850tons depending on the customer requirements),will have an italian designed fuel cells(most probably based on the siemens fuel cells design in use on the italian navy hdw type212 subs),it will have a weapon load comparable with the latest kilo class and the stealth of the scorpene,russia have also offered the integration of the brahmos missile on the amur class of submarines.

here check out this article from defence news:

India Considers New Italian-Russian Submarine

02/20/06 defense news

Link

Indian officials have evaluated a new submarine being jointly designed by Italy and Russia as New Delhi searches for a second sub type to complement the six French Scorpene submarines it contracted for last year.

A high-level Indian Defence Ministry team led by Defence Secretary Shekhar Dutt visited Rome, where Italian Defense Ministry officials provided a classified technical briefing Feb. 13-15. As the submarine is still on the drawing board, it is yet to be named.

A senior Indian Navy official said the new submarine is based on Russia’s Amur-class conventional submarine design and is under joint development between Fincantieri of Italy and Rubin Design Bureau of Russia.

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The Italian submarine weighs 1,000 tons and has an independent air propulsion suite. The submarine has not yet been built, but India is the first country to be offered this technology, said the Indian Navy official.

Vice Adm. Madanjit Singh, flag officer commanding-in-chief of the Indian Navy’s Western Command, said the Navy is looking for another type of submarine besides the Scorpene. He said the hunt for the new type of submarine was planned to begin after contracting for the six French Scorpenes last year.

“When we looked at the future submarine plan, a 30-year submarine plan, we had worked out that we have a requirement of two types of submarines for the kind of roles and missions that we expect to deploy them for,” Singh said.
“We had suggested that besides the Scorpene, we should look at another type of submarine, and Amur class was certainly looked at, but we had decided to await the commencement of the Scorpene production before we looked at another line because we do not have the capacity to start the second submarine line.”

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The Indian Navy official said the Italian submarine weighs less but has the same capacity as the Russian Kilo-class subs currently in its inventory and the contracted Scorpene submarines. Because of lesser tonnage, the cost of the Italian submarine would be considerably less then the Scorpenes..

The Navy official said India is also interested in co-production of submarines with other countries and the Italian venture is one such idea.
 
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P.A.F

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http://www.dawn.com/2006/02/23/int20.htm

India eyes 3 more Russian frigates



By Rajat Pandit
NEW DELHI: Impressed with the sheer lethality of the three Talwar-class “stealth” frigates inducted into the Navy during 2003-2004, India is close to finalising another contract with Russia for three more such warships. The three new frigates, which the Navy hopes to commission within the next five years, will be armed with the 300-km range BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles to enhance “blue-water capabilities”, say sources.

The Navy is already inducting the unique air-breathing BrahMos, which is even capable of carrying nuclear payloads, in its frontline destroyers and frigates, including the three Talwar-class warships — INS Talwar, INS Trishul and INS Tabar.

The 4,000-tonne Talwar frigates, incidentally, already have “a very high weapon and sensor density”, including eight vertical launch cells for the ‘Klub-N’ anti-ship and anti-submarine cruise missiles, with a strike range over 200-km.

With a cruising range of 4,500 nautical miles, these multi-purpose frigates are also designed to carry one heavy-duty Kamov-31 helicopter for early-warning of “incoming threats” for the entire fleet. In effect, they can handle “several threats” in all the three dimensions — air, surface and sub-surface.

The first three Talwar frigates, delivered a couple of years behind schedule due to malfunctioning missile systems, came at a cost of over Rs30 billion as part of the 1997 deal. India settled the issue of “liquidated damages” arising due to the delay by getting Russia to extend guarantees on the warships. “The three follow-on frigates will cost around the same, with of course standard escalation costs. The negotiations with Russia for them should be wrapped up in another month or two,” said sources.

The government has already assured the Navy of funds for the new frigates, basically meant for anti-submarine warfare and air defence of warship groups, as part of the perspective plan to maintain force-levels at around 140 warships.
 
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aaaditya

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well guys seems india and kazakhstan will jointly develop thermal torpedoes(they claim that these are torpedoes capable of homing onto a heat source,i dont know if that is possible or not),there was a report earlier which mentioned a torpedo named as dastaan-e and now there is a mention of the torpedo named krazy but there is absolutely no information about it.

here check out this link:

http://jamestown.org/edm/article.php?article_id=2370774

On February 10 Galym Orazbakov, president of the state-owned company Kazakhstan Engineering, explained in Astana, "We expect the export of the company's special products to double in 2006," compared to its record in 2005. The key focus of this will be exports to the Indo-Pacific region. "Recently, we held talks with our partners in India and Egypt who are planning to hold tenders for the purchase of arms. The company is planning to take part in these," he added. Although the law on state secrets strictly limits reporting on these issues in Kazakhstan, minimizing transparency in the conduct of the arms industry, Orazbakov indicated that these special products would include depth charges and torpedoes (Interfax, February 10).

Orazbakov's confidence in Kazakhstan Engineering, set up spring 2003 to consolidate 21 mostly machine-building companies, is rooted in the level of demand from the Indo-Pacific region and the number of contracts currently secured with these countries. It also reflects Kazakhstan's intensive diplomacy with these trading partners as well as the positive evaluation placed on the Kazakh products. The export of special products, including torpedoes and depth charges, rose in 2004 by 4%. Orazbakov said, "Historically, we have been carrying out a number of joint projects with India aimed at modernizing and repairing the torpedoes belonging to the Indian Navy. Also, we are designing a new torpedo called Kazy."

However, Orazbakov has identified domestic targets for his next ventures throughout this year, as he looks to capitalize on the trend towards the authorities spending slightly more on defense products for its armed forces and security agencies. Domestic sales of goods have risen by 5.6% compared with 2004, based on the increased demands from President Nursultan Nazarbayev's military reform program. Yet the main features of this domestic rise relate to the Zenit joint stock company producing Sunkar-M military cutters, and the aircraft repair plant No. 405, which repairs military helicopters.

Also on February 10 Kazakh Foreign Minister Kasymzhomart Tokayev held meetings with U.S. ambassador John Ordway, Russian ambassador Vladimir Babichev, and Indian ambassador Ashok Mukherjee in Astana. Predictably the Kazakh Foreign Ministry reported that Tokayev had "discussed expanding bilateral contacts in various areas of cooperation and looked at a wide range of international and regional issues of mutual interest." Yet, Mukherjee presented Tokayev with an invitation to come to India on an official visit this year, signaling greater interest in Delhi for forging stronger links with Kazakhstan and increasing Indian interest in Central Asia (Interfax, February 10).

It is clear that the Indian dimension is central to the hopes for greater sales output from Kazakhstan's defense industries. Indeed a Kazakh delegation recently participated in an international exhibition of land and naval weapons, Defexpo India 2006, in Delhi. Consequently, the Indian government expressed interest in holding talks on procuring torpedoes and mines for the Indian Navy. "The major result for Kazakhstan, which took part in such an exhibition for the first time, is that the Indian Ministry of Defense has expressed an interest in cooperation with our defense companies. In the future, talks can be conducted on selling Kazakh torpedoes and naval mines to India," a spokesman for the Indian Ministry of Defense confirmed (Khabar TV, February 6).

The Indian Navy is currently equipped with hundreds of torpedoes that were produced in Kazakhstan during the Soviet era. Kazakhstan's specialists in this field are clearly hoping to foster their own niche within the naval arms market. Sources within the Indian firm Larsen and Toubro believe that production of such arms could shift to plants in India, with Kazakh expertise and supervision.


http://www.ptinews.com/pti%5Cptisite.nsf/0/8E45690AB55F861C65257123005C1A56?OpenDocument

Kazakistan in talks with India to provide marine-type weaponry


Chandigarh, Feb 28 (PTI) Kazakhstan is negotiating with India to provide its sophisticated marine-type weaponry and both the countries are going to have a Joint Working Group in April to enhance defence cooperation, Kazakhstan Ambassador Kairat Umarov said today.
"Negotiations are going on. At the moment I can't divulge many details, but the process is on," Umarov told PTI on the sidelines of a lecture delivered by him on "Kazakhstan-India Relations: Cooperation in Economic and Energy Sectors" at the Centre for Research in Rural and Industrial Development here.

The Ambassador said there were other "unique technologies" which his country could offer to India.

Noting there was a lot of scope to further strengthen the ties between the two nations, Umarov said his country was looking forward to India's participation at the Conference on confidence building measures in Asia to be held in Kazakhstan later this year, an event in which 17 Asian nations will be taking part.

Inviting Indian companies to come and invest in Kazakhstan, he said there was a vast scope for cooperation in various fields including manufacturing sectors such as textiles, construction materials, leatherwear, plastics, pharma sector, IT, oil,gas and tourism. PTI

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2003/20031111/nation.htm#19



India to develop thermal torpedoes
Tribune News Service
New Delhi, November 10
In a bid to further improve relations with the Central Asian republics India has agreed to explore the possibility of joint research and development of the thermal torpedoes with Kazakhstan which would be of use of the navies of the two countries.
India and Kyrgystan on the other hand are exploring the possibility of testing the torpedoes from the facility available in the Central Asian Republic.
The two issues were discussed during the four-day recent visit of Defence Minister George Fernandes to Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan. Mr Fernandes returned from the two nation tour only yesterday.
An official release issued here today said that India and Kazakhstan would explore the possibilities of joint research and development in the field of thermal torpedoes. The torpedoes thus developed would work on the heat seeking formula and would possibly be fired with the help of thermal imagers.
Sources here said that the scientists from the country’s Defence Research Development Organisation (DRDO) and from Kazakhstan would work out the further arrangements for the joint research and development. The two countries would also undertake joint cooperation in the field of naval armaments. In Kazakhstan, Mr Fernandes also held talks on bilateral cooperation in areas of joint exercises, military training, jungle warfare and information technology. The Defence Minister met the Prime Minister, Defence Minister and the Industry Minister of Kazakhstan. In Kyrgyzstan also Mr Fernandes held talks on bilateral cooperation in military training, information technology.



can anyone give any more info on the concept of thermal torpedoes.
 
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