Indian Navy (IN) News and Discussion

[Grand Danois]

You mean the one on the Norwegian Nansen FFGs ?
I think you are being a bit too optimistic here, the SPY-1F is the latest evolution of the most sophisticated type of AAW radars around, and Israel would be able to develop a copy so fast ??

cheers

Perhaps it is optimistic. I was, however, thinking of the similar range against high flying targets and what it is supposed to do...

The SPY-1F has 1856 transmitter elements per array versus the 4350 of the SPY-1D, so it is physically downgraded version of a 1980's design. The magic is in the software and upgrades behind the radar.

I do wonder how far the MF-STAR is in its development. Are the Israelis just starting out?

 

[kams]

I do wonder how far the MF-STAR is in its development. Are the Israelis just starting out?

Well, IAI/ELTA have a sale brochure for MF=STAR (link -mf-star ), so I assume development is complete and is available for sale.

 

[Grand Danois]

Well, IAI/ELTA have a sale brochure for MF=STAR (link -mf-star ), so I assume development is complete and is available for sale.

I certainly don't know much about the MF-STAR, but I haven't seen it fielded on any ship yet.

A brochure doesn't necessarily mean that development is complete, it could just as well be a prospects brochure to attract funding for the development from outside sources.

It is presented as development is done, though (sceptical).

 

[contedicavour]

I certainly don't know much about the MF-STAR, but I haven't seen it fielded on any ship yet.

A brochure doesn't necessarily mean that development is complete, it could just as well be a prospects brochure to attract funding for the development from outside sources.

It is presented as development is done, though (sceptical).

What is the AAW radar aboard the Saar V ? (I don't have my beloved encyclopedia Jane's with me ) Could the MF-Star be an evolution of an existing system deployed on the Saar Vs already ?

cheers

 

[Sea Toby]

The Saar Vs have a Elta AIO III combat system, a Elta EL/M 2228S 3-D air search radar, 2 Elta EL/M 2221 GM STGR fire control radar, plus a Cardion SPS-55 surface search radar.
The next batch of Saar V+ class will be armed with new generation ASAM and SAM missiles. They will probably have an improved combat system as well.

 

[kams]

It appears that ELTA MF-STAR is used in upgraded SPYDER SR too. SPYDER SR has a range of 15 km where as SPYDER MR (the upgraded version) has a range of 35+ km. SPYDER system uses DERBY and PYTHON 5 missiles. In case of SPYDER MR, their range is increased by addition of a booster. The radar in case of SPYDER SR is Elta EL/M-2106 (Range of 60 km) and MF-STAR (mounted on a 20 m mast, range 100+ km) in case of SPYDER MR. Situation in case of BARAK II is very similar. Question is, will addition of a booster sufficient to increase the range of missile?

 

[contedicavour]

The Saar Vs have a Elta AIO III combat system, a Elta EL/M 2228S 3-D air search radar, 2 Elta EL/M 2221 GM STGR fire control radar, plus a Cardion SPS-55 surface search radar.
The next batch of Saar V+ class will be armed with new generation ASAM and SAM missiles. They will probably have an improved combat system as well.

Thanks for the information. So, no MF Star installed, rather a more traditional 3D air search radar. I doubt we'll see a new batch of Saar V built, they are too crammed with weaponry and electronics. I've read that the Israeli Navy wishes to participate to the American LCS programme (though whether they want the Freedom or the Independence versions, nobody knows). That would help giving a much bigger hull with more space.

cheers

 

[contedicavour]

It appears that ELTA MF-STAR is used in upgraded SPYDER SR too. SPYDER SR has a range of 15 km where as SPYDER MR (the upgraded version) has a range of 35+ km. SPYDER system uses DERBY and PYTHON 5 missiles. In case of SPYDER MR, their range is increased by addition of a booster. The radar in case of SPYDER SR is Elta EL/M-2106 (Range of 60 km) and MF-STAR (mounted on a 20 m mast, range 100+ km) in case of SPYDER MR. Situation in case of BARAK II is very similar. Question is, will addition of a booster sufficient to increase the range of missile?

Wow you've got quite a deal of information here !! Thanks
I'm lost though on this SPYDER combat system. Is it originally used on aircrafts (since you name Derby BVR and Python IR missiles) ?
If the radar's range is indeed only 100+km, then I guess it's useless to have SAMs with a range much beyond half that range (EMPAR = 190+km, Aster 30 = 120km... and the ships carrying EMPAR also have 400+km range S1850 or RAN)

cheers

 

[kams]

Wow you've got quite a deal of information here !! Thanks
I'm lost though on this SPYDER combat system. Is it originally used on aircrafts (since you name Derby BVR and Python IR missiles) ?
If the radar's range is indeed only 100+km, then I guess it's useless to have SAMs with a range much beyond half that range (EMPAR = 190+km, Aster 30 = 120km... and the ships carrying EMPAR also have 400+km range S1850 or RAN)

cheers

My apologies for completely confusing you. SPYDER is ground based airdefense system (SHORAD), which uses Derby Radar Guided missiles and Python IIR guided missiles (Air to Air missiles configured for SHORAD). I was trying to point out the approach adopted by Israeli's in upgrading the range of SPYDER SR (Short range - 15 km) to SPYDER MR (Medium range 35 km). Here they attached a booster to the missiles and used a longer range radar. Similar approach may be adopted for BARAK II.

MF-STAR used in SPYDER MR has lesser range (100 km vs 250 km in Navalised version) due to limitation imposed by the need to be mobile in SHORAD.

Did I confuse you further??

My question was, will it be possible to use the same missile in BARAK I by attaching a booster or are we looking at totally new missile?

 

[contedicavour]

My apologies for completely confusing you. SPYDER is ground based airdefense system (SHORAD), which uses Derby Radar Guided missiles and Python IIR guided missiles (Air to Air missiles configured for SHORAD). I was trying to point out the approach adopted by Israeli's in upgrading the range of SPYDER SR (Short range - 15 km) to SPYDER MR (Medium range 35 km). Here they attached a booster to the missiles and used a longer range radar. Similar approach may be adopted for BARAK II.

MF-STAR used in SPYDER MR has lesser range (100 km vs 250 km in Navalised version) due to limitation imposed by the need to be mobile in SHORAD.

Did I confuse you further??

My question was, will it be possible to use the same missile in BARAK I by attaching a booster or are we looking at totally new missile?

Ah-ha thanks, now I understand !
I wasn't aware the Israelis were using air-to-air missiles for shorad purposes. It's true that the French do that often (Mistral for example) but on radar-guided longer-range weapons I'm surprised. I remember seeing a SAM based on Amraam, but I don't think anybody bought that system.
What I learned most from your post is that a ground version of MF-STAR is up and running (am I correct ?). In that case finalizing the navalized version becomes easier and credible.
Unfortunately I can't answer your question on the evolution of the Baraks, though it makes perfect sense to add boosters. The US does it all the time, extending the SM-1MR into ER, and evolving the SM-2 family by adding boosters. Even the Aster-30 is a longer -15 (though there are some more structural differences).

cheers

 

[Grand Danois]

I wasn't aware the Israelis were using air-to-air missiles for shorad purposes. It's true that the French do that often (Mistral for example) but on radar-guided longer-range weapons I'm surprised. I remember seeing a SAM based on Amraam, but I don't think anybody bought that system.

The Norwegians were the first to build a SAM based on the AIM-120, called NASAMS. They tried to barter these for some PZH2000 from Holland a few years ago. Don't think they succeded.

The Americans took the NASAMS concept and developed the SLAMRAAM. Four-six AMRAAM's on a Hummer with appropriate fire controls. These are in use for the aerial defence of Washington DC.

So the AIM-120 as a SAM is developed and bought.

 

[darsh]

hi! i am new here. could someone tell me the difference between the agosta subs and the scorpene subs that india has and whch one is better with regards to range, weapon systems, stealth and overall capability.

 

[contedicavour]

The Norwegians were the first to build a SAM based on the AIM-120, called NASAMS. They tried to barter these for some PZH2000 from Holland a few years ago. Don't think they succeded.

The Americans took the NASAMS concept and developed the SLAMRAAM. Four-six AMRAAM's on a Hummer with appropriate fire controls. These are in use for the aerial defence of Washington DC.

So the AIM-120 as a SAM is developed and bought.

I wasn't aware of that. Weird choice with all the Patriots, Stingers, not to mention the presence of the 1st Air Wing with F22s...
The amraam's range when based on a Hummer with ground based guidance must be pretty limited.
Btw, who operates this one-of-a-kind system ? Army, Marines, Secret Service ?

cheers

 

[Grand Danois]

Btw, who operates this one-of-a-kind system ? Army, Marines, Secret Service ?

Both Army and Marines would be operating SLAMRAAM

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/surface-launched/

 

[Gibser]

Where you get it???

 

[aprasadi]

Dear All,

One of my friends whoz working in Goa ship yard told me that 3 ships are under construction there. 2 are fast patrol vesels and while one is Frigate.The thing about this frigate he told me is that he has never seen such ship before in IN and is the latest design. Can anybody enlighten me wht kind of frigate it can be.

 

[contedicavour]

Dear All,

One of my friends whoz working in Goa ship yard told me that 3 ships are under construction there. 2 are fast patrol vesels and while one is Frigate.The thing about this frigate he told me is that he has never seen such ship before in IN and is the latest design. Can anybody enlighten me wht kind of frigate it can be.

Most probably a P17-class FFG that will be the backbone of the Indian Navy together with the 3+3 Russian Talwars/Krivak improved.

cheers

 

[aaaditya]

Most probably a P17-class FFG that will be the backbone of the Indian Navy together with the 3+3 Russian Talwars/Krivak improved.

cheers

all the p17 frigates are being built at mumbai and not at goa ,aprasadi's friend must have mistaken as a frigate the 2500 ton extra large patrol vessel being built by gsl for the indian coast guard.this 2500 ton elpv would be the largest patrol vessel with the coast guard.

 

[aaaditya]

hey guys the trial nuclear reactor for the indian nuclear submarine is now operational ,this 100mw reactor had been running successfully since 2004 end,now the reactor would be fitted into the hull of the submarine.

here check out this link:

http://www.hindu.com/2006/08/18/stories/2006081800541500.htm

Mini version of reactor to be built and fitted into the submarine


The reactor went critical towards the end of 2004
Mood upbeat about building of submarine

CHENNAI: The reactor for India's nuclear-powered submarine project at Kalpakkam, near here, is working smoothly at its full capacity of 100 MWe, informed sources said.
Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee inspected the project on July 18 while taking part in the 20th anniversary celebrations of the commissioning of the Fast Breeder Test Reactor there.
The project is called the Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV) programme.
The sources said the reactor, which went critical towards the end of 2004, was fully operational now.
A miniaturised version of the reactor would be built and fitted into the submarine.
Prime Minister Manmohan Singh visited the ATV facility on October 23, 2004, when he launched the construction of the Prototype Fast Breeder Reactor (PFBR) there.
Substantial progress has also been made in building the submarine's hull at Visakhapatnam, the sources said.
The ATV is a joint project of the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre (BARC) of the Department of Atomic Energy (DAE), the Navy and the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).
The ATV has facilities at BARC in Mumbai, Kalpakkam, and Visakhapatnam.
The mood is upbeat in these facilities about the progress made. The fuel for the reactor, which is highly enriched uranium, comes from the Rare Materials Project near Ratnahalli, near Mysore.

 

[kams]

USS Trenton acquisition finalized

Govt. of india has finalized acquisition of USS trenton along with 4 Landing Craft Mechanised (LCMs) for Indian Navy for $48 million. This boost INs ambhib capability big time.
PURCHASE OF TRANSPORT WARSHIP FROM USA