Indian Navy (IN) News and Discussion

[kams]

You mentioned L&T and kirloskar. Do you no where in India are they going to Build and what type of ships Will they build.

L&T's ship building is located in Hazira. Here is a link to their venture in to ship building.

Larsentoubro

Mumbai, May 2, 2006: Larsen & Toubro Limited (L&T) has won a key contract for construction of four ships valued at over Rs.440 crores from Zadeko Ship Management CV of the Netherlands. The order marks the formal launch of L&T's venture into shipbuilding. The vessels will be built at a new shipyard that will form part of the Company's state-of-the-art engineering complex at Hazira, Surat.

Production of the ships is scheduled to commence in July, 2006. In line with contemporary global shipbuilding trends, L&T will adopt modular construction and seamless work flow techniques at its shipyard to meet the stringent delivery schedules.
Described in technical terminology as RO-RO/LO-LO semi-submersible, heavy lift container cargo ships, these highly specialized vessels are among the only ones of its kind to be made in India. The vessels have a deadweight capacity of over 8250 tonnes, 17000 cubic metres of cargo hold and can carry 830 TEU of containerized cargo.

L&T's shipyard at Hazira will focus on construction of commercial vessels and warships for the navy as well as the coast guard. The yard will have the capacity to construct high technology vessels of up to 150-metre length and displacement of 20000 tonnes. Further expansion programmes envisage installation of ship lift system for new construction, repairs and refit of ships including defense and paramilitary vessels.

That's funny! thought the names had a Danish flair to them.

The evolution of L&T into the country's largest engineering and construction organizations is among the more remarkable success stories in Indian industry. The company was founded in Bombay (Mumbai) in 1938 by two Danish engineers, Henning Holck-Larsen and Soren Kristian Toubro - both of whom were strongly committed to developing India's engineering talent and enabling it to meet the demands of industry. Beginning with the import of machinery from Europe, L&T rapidly took on engineering and construction assignments of increasing sophistication. Today, the company sets engineering benchmarks in terms of scale and complexity.

Hurray to Danish Spirit..setting up an industry in India in 1938 and that company is now one of the leading construction and engineering conglomerate.

 

[slim]

L&T's ship building is located in Hazira. Here is a link to their venture in to ship building.

Larsentoubro













Hurray to Danish Spirit..setting up an industry in India in 1938 and that company is now one of the leading construction and engineering conglomerate.

Thank You. Very interesting.

India should work towards the capacity to build atleast 4 additional major warship classes simulataneously in addition its current capacity.
-Atleast one more for Destroyer/Frigate building facility.
- One additional forConventional Submarine
-One for nuclear submarine( It may already have one)
-One for Large amphibious vessels

 

[tphuang]

Thank You. Very interesting.

India should work towards the capacity to build atleast 4 additional major warship classes simulataneously in addition its current capacity.
-Atleast one more for Destroyer/Frigate building facility.
- One additional forConventional Submarine
-One for nuclear submarine( It may already have one)
-One for Large amphibious vessels

Those shipyards are going to loose a lot of money, if they only have military contracts.

 

[kams]

Those shipyards are going to loose a lot of money, if they only have military contracts.

Did not bother to read the link I posted, did you??? Had to shoot your mouth off?? L&T's first order is to supply 4 ships to Zadeko Ship Management CV of the Netherlands. Thanks for the financial analysis of L&T. Would you bother to enlighten us mere mortals why they will loose money even if they had to depend on Military contracts? Could you provide us with the break down of Indian Navy's order book for next 20-30 years?
L&T, TATA, Reliance, Kirloskar did not become what they are today by throwing money in to ventures where they will loose money.

 

[kams]

Ok Mr.Financial Wizard, here are some financial numbers of three State Owned ship building units for 2004-2005.

Mazagon Docks - Proft before tax - Rs. 134 crore
Cochin Ship Yard- Profit Before tax - Rs. 17 Crore
Garden Reach - Profit Before tax -Rs. 50 crore.

Please note that as all these are Govt. owned and operated, they have huge work force and technology may not be very latest. You can expect Pvt. conglomerates like L&T, TATA to be much more efficient. Infact L&T utilizes latest modular construction and construction in enclosed yards to optimal utilization of time and effort. In any case if these state owned shipyards are making profit you think Private companies will be in loss???:unknown

Currently all State owned ship building units are booked solid with orders from Indian Navy. Thats the reason Indian navy ordered 3 Talwar class missile frigates from Russia and thats the reason Indian Govt. has opened Defence sector for select players.

Please feel free to ask for any information (in case you are too busy to look them up yourself) before making such snide uncalled for remarks.

 

[tphuang]

Did not bother to read the link I posted, did you??? Had to shoot your mouth off?? L&T's first order is to supply 4 ships to Zadeko Ship Management CV of the Netherlands. Thanks for the financial analysis of L&T. Would you bother to enlighten us mere mortals why they will loose money even if they had to depend on Military contracts? Could you provide us with the break down of Indian Navy's order book for next 20-30 years?
L&T, TATA, Reliance, Kirloskar did not become what they are today by throwing money in to ventures where they will loose money.

wow, sounding pretty aggressive, huh?

I was not referring to L&T at all. But you obviously feel the need to jump on me without any kind of proof. It seemed like reading Slim's post, that he was referring to opening up 4 new shipbuilding facilities just for building each of the 4 types of military ship. So, I jokingly said that if that's all they are doing, then those facilities would have some serious problem staying afloat. But you obviously had to butt in. And a reminder that if someone uses a joking smilie, maybe you shouldn't take it so seriously.

 

[aaaditya]

wow, sounding pretty aggressive, huh?

I was not referring to L&T at all. But you obviously feel the need to jump on me without any kind of proof. It seemed like reading Slim's post, that he was referring to opening up 4 new shipbuilding facilities just for building each of the 4 types of military ship. So, I jokingly said that if that's all they are doing, then those facilities would have some serious problem staying afloat. But you obviously had to butt in. And a reminder that if someone uses a joking smilie, maybe you shouldn't take it so seriously.

actually l and t is considered to be one of the top engineering companies in the world,they are in volved in the field of heavy engineering(specialised equipments),indian nuclear submarine project(powerplant modules and habitability modules),indian submerged missile test platform was built by them,construction engineering(bridges,dams,airports,powerplants etc),shipbuilding(latest capability),information and technology(considered to be amongst the best in india ).

you can call the l and t india's hyundai.

 

[aaaditya]

Thank You. Very interesting.

India should work towards the capacity to build atleast 4 additional major warship classes simulataneously in addition its current capacity.
-Atleast one more for Destroyer/Frigate building facility.
- One additional forConventional Submarine
-One for nuclear submarine( It may already have one)
-One for Large amphibious vessels

larsen and toubro already has these capabilities.

1)they proposed to the indian navy the amur class of submarines,to built under licence along with kirloskar marine engines limited in west bengal,howver the indian navy is yet undecided,but it is sure that whichever submarine is selected by the indian navy the larsen and toubro will be the second submarine producer.

the facility for manufacturing submarines is already ready but is currently being used for the atv nuclear submarine project ,for which larsen and toubro is responsible in fabricating the powerplant and habitability modules,they also built up a submersible test barge for missile testing,which is used by the indian navy to simulate underwater missile tests.

they are also going to set up a second facility for manufacturing ships in chennai,this facility will specifically focus on light patrol crafts,missile firing catamarans etc.

larsen and toubro is also responsible for providing degaussing solutions for the indian navy.

so we dont realy nead three four shipyards,particularly when a single company has all these capabilities.

what india needs is a conglomerate of top indian companies involed in ship building using their specialised skills.

1)larsen and toubro- heavy engineering and fabrication,ship and submarine design,system integration,project management and weapon systems etc.

2) tata consultancy services-design consultancy and software,software development and testing,combat management and networking system etc.

3) kirloskar marine engines limited-diesel engines,gas turbine engines and fuel
air cells and propellers etc.

3) videocon-electronics .

4) samtel-displays.

5)tata power-weapons systems.

this will serve as a competition for the governement agencies besides improving the quality of ship building in the country.

 

[aaaditya]

hey guys the fast attack craft batti malv has been commisioned and will be based in andaman and nicobar islands.also grse will construct 10 more vessels of a similiar class but having speeds of upto 35kts for the indian navy .

here check out this link:

http://ia.rediff.com/news/2006/jul/31warship.htm

Fast attack warship Batti Malv commissioned

July 31, 2006 21:51 IST


Fast attack indigenous warship Batti Malv was commissioned by the Commander-in-Chief of Andaman and Nicobar unified command Vice Admiral Arun Kumar Singh on Monday.

Speaking at the ceremony, the Vice Admiral said Batti Malv was an 'extremely valuable asset' in the discharge of the role of the unified command structure for maintaining the safety, security and well being of the Andaman and Nicobar Islands.

"The fact that we are able today to commission a state-of-the-art warship like Batti Malv with indigenous construction, power generation package, weapons and sensors bear eloquent testimony to our nation's technological prowess and the skill of its workforce," he said.

The Rs 64 crore warship is named after one of the islands in the archipelago and took 26 months to be constructed.

It is the third of the series of Bangaram-class high-speed warships and with its 46 metre height was a cost effective platform for patrol and rescue operations at sea with combat capabilities with matching fire power, Rear Admiral (retd) T S Ganeshan, chairman and managing director of Garden Reach Ship Builders and Engineers Shipyard Ltd, Kolkata, which constructed it, said.

The warship's twin engine can achieve a speed of 28 knots, he said.

The Navy has placed orders for ten more fast attack crafts of 35 knots speed with water jets and their construction will start at GRSE, the biggest defence shipyard in the country, by October. The fourth ship INS Baratang was delivered to the Navy on July 28 and would be commissioned next month, he said.

Vice-Admiral Arun Kumar, describing the event as historic, said the naval planners had shown great foresight in supporting an indigenous warship construction programme for over three decades. The move was not only a necessary step towards self reliance, but also led to consequential saving of precious foreign exchange, he added.

 

[aaaditya]

God knows what its design is based on but this mysterious India project is taking very long time.
But India SSN was first thought to be of 4000 ton later to be 6000 based on some old Russian attack submarine.

Design can be taken from anywhere but this PWR is the main problem

the reactor has been successfully tested on land(at kalpakkam),the reactor containment shell weighing 600 tons and having a 10m diameter was fabricated from titanium by larsen and toubro ,initially they failed due to fabrication problems,but then with russian assistance the problems have been solved and now they are ready.

 

[kams]

I think Indian Navy's immediate requirement is land based AEW&C platform. They have a serious gap with only upgraded IL-38 (very limited numbers) flying.

Northrop eyes E-2D release

 

[ajay_ijn]

the reactor has been successfully tested on land(at kalpakkam),the reactor containment shell weighing 600 tons and having a 10m diameter was fabricated from titanium by larsen and toubro ,initially they failed due to fabrication problems,but then with russian assistance the problems have been solved and now they are ready.

dude you know Indians and their claims and even their delays.

however if thats true then have they started constructing the submarine?

 

[kams]

wow, sounding pretty aggressive, huh?

I was not referring to L&T at all. But you obviously feel the need to jump on me without any kind of proof. It seemed like reading Slim's post, that he was referring to opening up 4 new shipbuilding facilities just for building each of the 4 types of military ship. So, I jokingly said that if that's all they are doing, then those facilities would have some serious problem staying afloat. But you obviously had to butt in. And a reminder that if someone uses a joking smilie, maybe you shouldn't take it so seriously.

tphaung,
I owe you an apology. I mis-understood you and did not realize that you were jokingly refering to Slims post. Peace

 

[ajay_ijn]

I think Indian Navy's immediate requirement is land based AEW&C platform. They have a serious gap with only upgraded IL-38 (very limited numbers) flying.

Northrop eyes E-2D release

dude u mean naval surveillance Aircraft??
IL-38 is not a AEW Aircraft

 

[kams]

dude u mean naval surveillance Aircraft??
IL-38 is not a AEW Aircraft

Yep, I meant Maritime Patrol aircraft such as Boeing P-8 MMA. All India has is IL-38, TU 142 and some Dorniers

 

[contedicavour]

I had no intention of offending The Italian Navy. It is a very modern and capable force.What I am reffering to is what Indian Navy will be around 2020 and the vision of Adm Singh. Although The Italian Navy is very impressive I am not very far from the truth if I mean that by 2020 India with its rapidly expanding economy will surpass the Italian Navy greatly with repect to actual tonnage and manpower.However in Quality The Italian Navy will definately be aforce to contend with and relative to Italy's size the Italian Navy is definately very large. but you have to take things in context India is a massive country with very immediate threats and helped by a growing economy its Navy is bound to be a very large one by 2020.I have great respect for the Italian Navy and there was no intention to belittle it. I should have clarified that I was reffering to the 2020 period.

No issue, don't worry. The Indian Navy is already larger than the Italian Navy in quantitative terms and if the 2020 programme is applied, it will be even bigger in 15 years' time.
The areas where IMHO the Indian Navy will remain behind are :
- SAMs, as Super Barak has a range of 70km vs Aster 30's 120km
- AAW radars, since there are no Aegis, Sampson, Apar or Empar planned
- amphibious warfare (by which I mean LPDs, LPHs, attack aircrafts and helos carried on CVs, such as a F35 and a Mangusta-improved versus MIG29K, and of course marines trained on disembarking from LCAC and helos in hostile territory)
The areas where I believe the Indian Navy will excel will be :
- submarine warfare, offensive and defensive, with a mix of Scorpene, upgraded Kilos with Brahmos, and Amur1850, without even mentioning potential SSNs (leased Akula II or the locally built ones)
- ASUW, with Brahmos and why not Klub missiles

cheers

 

[ajay_ijn]

No issue, don't worry. The Indian Navy is already larger than the Italian Navy in quantitative terms and if the 2020 programme is applied, it will be even bigger in 15 years' time.
The areas where IMHO the Indian Navy will remain behind are :
- SAMs, as Super Barak has a range of 70km vs Aster 30's 120km
- AAW radars, since there are no Aegis, Sampson, Apar or Empar planned
- amphibious warfare (by which I mean LPDs, LPHs, attack aircrafts and helos carried on CVs, such as a F35 and a Mangusta-improved versus MIG29K, and of course marines trained on disembarking from LCAC and helos in hostile territory)
The areas where I believe the Indian Navy will excel will be :
- submarine warfare, offensive and defensive, with a mix of Scorpene, upgraded Kilos with Brahmos, and Amur1850, without even mentioning potential SSNs (leased Akula II or the locally built ones)
- ASUW, with Brahmos and why not Klub missiles

cheers

not to consider the Aircraft Carriers which give the true Status of Blue water Navy

 

[slim]

No issue, don't worry. The Indian Navy is already larger than the Italian Navy in quantitative terms and if the 2020 programme is applied, it will be even bigger in 15 years' time.
The areas where IMHO the Indian Navy will remain behind are :
- SAMs, as Super Barak has a range of 70km vs Aster 30's 120km
- AAW radars, since there are no Aegis, Sampson, Apar or Empar planned
- amphibious warfare (by which I mean LPDs, LPHs, attack aircrafts and helos carried on CVs, such as a F35 and a Mangusta-improved versus MIG29K, and of course marines trained on disembarking from LCAC and helos in hostile territory)
The areas where I believe the Indian Navy will excel will be :
- submarine warfare, offensive and defensive, with a mix of Scorpene, upgraded Kilos with Brahmos, and Amur1850, without even mentioning potential SSNs (leased Akula II or the locally built ones)
- ASUW, with Brahmos and why not Klub missiles

cheers

1) I heard in some media snippets about the possibility of the sale of Ageis System to India. Have any concrete steps been taken in that direction.

2) Also there have been speculation that India may be developing a 5th gen fighter with Russia(I am not sure if it has started or it is just a distant possibility .Someone can enlighten me if they have more definite information) Anyway Indian side seemed very keen to have a single engined lighter fighter as opposed to a Russian preference for a heavy two engined fighter. Does that mean India may probably want a Naval variant of the same.

3) In the recent Arms Exhibit in India The Lockheed Martin demonstrated JsF models in Indian colors. So I wonder if that means Indian Navy operating the JSF in the not too distant future. If it is a realistic possibility what timeframe are we looking at for the JSf to get into service with IN. Also Indian naval aviators are currently training in the U.S . It raises possibility of India aquiring western carrier borne fixed wing aircraft.I find it very hard to swalow when I hear Russia does not have the ability to train Indian fixed wing aviators when they themselves field su33 and su25 from their carriers. Someone in Russia must have trained them. But somehow media reports suggest Russia cannot train Indians

If any or all of these projects are indeed in the pipeline it should give a tremendous boost to IN capability.

 

[aaaditya]

No issue, don't worry. The Indian Navy is already larger than the Italian Navy in quantitative terms and if the 2020 programme is applied, it will be even bigger in 15 years' time.
The areas where IMHO the Indian Navy will remain behind are :
- SAMs, as Super Barak has a range of 70km vs Aster 30's 120km
- AAW radars, since there are no Aegis, Sampson, Apar or Empar planned
- amphibious warfare (by which I mean LPDs, LPHs, attack aircrafts and helos carried on CVs, such as a F35 and a Mangusta-improved versus MIG29K, and of course marines trained on disembarking from LCAC and helos in hostile territory)
The areas where I believe the Indian Navy will excel will be :
- submarine warfare, offensive and defensive, with a mix of Scorpene, upgraded Kilos with Brahmos, and Amur1850, without even mentioning potential SSNs (leased Akula II or the locally built ones)
- ASUW, with Brahmos and why not Klub missiles

cheers

actually indian navy actively considered european radars and aster 15-30 missile systems,there were speculations at one stage that the later variants of the p17 class of stealth vessles will be equipped with them,but nothing much is heard even since the news about super barak came out.

france had made an official offer for the supply of herakles mfr radars afor the indian frigates and corvettes currently under construction with full tot,though not much is known about the status of this deal.

overall iam very eagerly waiting for the commissioning of the first p17 class of frigate ins shivalik ,it will clearly define wether indian went for the european radar -aster combination or the russian ones.

 

[contedicavour]

actually indian navy actively considered european radars and aster 15-30 missile systems,there were speculations at one stage that the later variants of the p17 class of stealth vessles will be equipped with them,but nothing much is heard even since the news about super barak came out.

france had made an official offer for the supply of herakles mfr radars afor the indian frigates and corvettes currently under construction with full tot,though not much is known about the status of this deal.

overall iam very eagerly waiting for the commissioning of the first p17 class of frigate ins shivalik ,it will clearly define wether indian went for the european radar -aster combination or the russian ones.

I thought (by reading Janes 2006-07) that the P17 had SA-N-12 VLS with Russian radars. Not bad with 35km range and VLS, still not in the same league as apar/empar/sampson etc.
The Herakles (on the Delta FFGs for Singapore) is a downgraded version of Empar, fine if you want to launch Aster 15s, inadequate (range & number of targets you can track) for Aster 30s. However it is, of course, cheaper. French FREMM will use Herakles because AAW is not their priority, however Italian FREMM will use empar since Aster 30s will be available (fitted for not with - formula).

cheers