Indian Navy (IN) News and Discussion

[contedicavour]

not to consider the Aircraft Carriers which give the true Status of Blue water Navy

Yes undoubtedly. However if you want to have your ADS & ex-Gorshkov at full potential, you'll need better than MIG29K (MIG29SMT for example, or why not F35B ). I've seen a post mentioning the possibility of JSF F-35 sale to India some day. That would be great.
Next your carriers would also be better off with AEW assets. Yes you have Russian Helix helos with some AEW, but EH-101 AEW or even something similar to Hawkeye would help.
Last but not least, I would have upgraded the Harriers with BVR capability, but I've seen that the MIG29K programme has total priority and the Harrier upgrade has been cancelled. May be some ex UK Sea Harriers would be a good interim buy.

cheers

 

[aaaditya]

Yes undoubtedly. However if you want to have your ADS & ex-Gorshkov at full potential, you'll need better than MIG29K (MIG29SMT for example, or why not F35B ). I've seen a post mentioning the possibility of JSF F-35 sale to India some day. That would be great.
Next your carriers would also be better off with AEW assets. Yes you have Russian Helix helos with some AEW, but EH-101 AEW or even something similar to Hawkeye would help.
Last but not least, I would have upgraded the Harriers with BVR capability, but I've seen that the MIG29K programme has total priority and the Harrier upgrade has been cancelled. May be some ex UK Sea Harriers would be a good interim buy.

cheers

indian navy is looking for sea king replacement ,about 18-24 heavy helos are to be procured,cougar and eh101 helos are being looked into,the indian navy also plans to acquire the mistral class with grse-calcutta building them under tot from france.

 

[aaaditya]

hey guys seems that the construction of the p-28 corvettes has started,these are considered to be india's first completely indigenous warships(with the exception of the propulsion systems).there was initially speculations that these warships would be based on the russian project20385 steregushiy class design,but since then these rumours have been negated by the office of the navy ,who claim that the warships would be of indigenous stealth design,initially 4-6 vessels ar eplanned.

here check out this link:

http://164.100.24.208/ls/CommitteeR/Defence/9th%20report%20of%2014th.pdf

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/india/p-28.htm

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1533352,0008.htm

 

[contedicavour]

hey guys seems that the construction of the p-28 corvettes has started,these are considered to be india's first completely indigenous warships(with the exception of the propulsion systems).there was initially speculations that these warships would be based on the russian project20385 steregushiy class design,but since then these rumours have been negated by the office of the navy ,who claim that the warships would be of indigenous stealth design,initially 4-6 vessels ar eplanned.

here check out this link:

http://164.100.24.208/ls/CommitteeR/Defence/9th%20report%20of%2014th.pdf

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/india/p-28.htm

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1533352,0008.htm

I've got some trouble with the first link.
Could you tell us something about its armament (Brahmos or Uran for example ? which SAM ?) and if these are replacing older ships or complement the existing corvettes ?

cheers

 

[aaaditya]

these vessels will complement the existing ones,the armaments will include :

1)8 klub cruise missiles having a range of 220 kms and having antiship,antisubmarine and land attack capabilities.

2)18 barak surface to air missiles- having a range of 10-15 kms.

3)one oto-breda 76mm stealth gun.

4)two indigenous triple torpedoes with the european mu90 eurotorp as the standard torpedo armament,these torpedos i believe have a range of upto 15 kms.

5)2 rbu-6000 asw/asuw rocket cum mortar launcher.


also indian navy will be placing a repeat order of the p17 class of vessels,under project p17a (improved over the existing design).the first of the p-17 class will be inducted from march2007.

 

[contedicavour]

these vessels will complement the existing ones,the armaments will include :

1)8 klub cruise missiles having a range of 220 kms and having antiship,antisubmarine and land attack capabilities.

2)18 barak surface to air missiles- having a range of 10-15 kms.

3)one oto-breda 76mm stealth gun.

4)two indigenous triple torpedoes with the european mu90 eurotorp as the standard torpedo armament,these torpedos i believe have a range of upto 15 kms.

5)2 rbu-6000 asw/asuw rocket cum mortar launcher.


also indian navy will be placing a repeat order of the p17 class of vessels,under project p17a (improved over the existing design).the first of the p-17 class will be inducted from march2007.

wow call them corvettes Those Klubs are impressive ! Normally Urans would have done the job. It seems your admirals are collecting quite an array of SSMs, Brahmos, Klub, Uran ...

cheers

 

[aaaditya]

wow call them corvettes Those Klubs are impressive ! Normally Urans would have done the job. It seems your admirals are collecting quite an array of SSMs, Brahmos, Klub, Uran ...

cheers

no indian navy is now standardising to only two missiles ,the klub and brahmos,these missiles will replace the uran and the sea eagle,a small amount of sm70 exocet missiles have been ordered to arm the scorpene submarines,but i believe this is only a temporary measure till we develop the submarine launched version of the brahmos.

 

[contedicavour]

no indian navy is now standardising to only two missiles ,the klub and brahmos,these missiles will replace the uran and the sea eagle,a small amount of sm70 exocet missiles have been ordered to arm the scorpene submarines,but i believe this is only a temporary measure till we develop the submarine launched version of the brahmos.

Wouldn't it make sense to preserve a lighter system for smaller naval units (corvettes/fast armed crafts such as the Tarantuls) ? Klubs and Brahmos seem to me a bit of an overkill. However, if you can afford it, profit from it !

cheers

 

[dabrownguy]

Guys theres way too much bs floating around about IN's future plans.
The IN wanted the Aster 15/30 but was offered Barak II. Now the Barak II is in joint development. With out additional boasters the SAM has a range of 80 km. Keeping in mind that PN has air launched Harpoons the range is extended for the IN to 120 km with another boaster. India and Israel are also jointly developing a naval PAR with four panels. Theres a picture of it on the internet. As for INs anti-ship missiles. There is no way the Switchblade will be so easily be replaced by Klub in the air launched role from helecopters, expecially when Dhurv and Seakings aren't large enough. Switchblade will be around for a while along with Sea Eagle. DRDO is working on a light helecopter launched anti-ship missile for both Dhurv and Tejas. Weather it meterializes is another issue. The Klubs that are being used for P-28 might by anti-sub not anti-ship. There also might be chance the defensive weapons suite might be Khastan or by a far stretch, Trishul. Either way its still a kick butt corvette. For the Indian Navy, its all about its Carrier/s. Harriers/Flacrums/Bears/Tejas gives it a long arm and SeaKings/Dhurvs do the same. Thus cutting the need to counter submarines and ships with more submarines and ships.

 

[aaaditya]

Guys theres way too much bs floating around about IN's future plans.
The IN wanted the Aster 15/30 but was offered Barak II. Now the Barak II is in joint development. With out additional boasters the SAM has a range of 80 km. Keeping in mind that PN has air launched Harpoons the range is extended for the IN to 120 km with another boaster. India and Israel are also jointly developing a naval PAR with four panels. Theres a picture of it on the internet. As for INs anti-ship missiles. There is no way the Switchblade will be so easily be replaced by Klub in the air launched role from helecopters, expecially when Dhurv and Seakings aren't large enough. Switchblade will be around for a while along with Sea Eagle. DRDO is working on a light helecopter launched anti-ship missile for both Dhurv and Tejas. Weather it meterializes is another issue. The Klubs that are being used for P-28 might by anti-sub not anti-ship. There also might be chance the defensive weapons suite might be Khastan or by a far stretch, Trishul. Either way its still a kick butt corvette. For the Indian Navy, its all about its Carrier/s. Harriers/Flacrums/Bears/Tejas gives it a long arm and SeaKings/Dhurvs do the same. Thus cutting the need to counter submarines and ships with more submarines and ships.

the sea eagles have been retired from service,switchblade is currently used.by the way do you have any information on the light weight air launched anti-ship missile?

i believe that the range of the barak can be increased upto 160-180kms with a suitable booster.by the way do you have any idea about the performance of the indo-israeli radar about which you mentioned?

 

[aaaditya]

hey guys here is an interesting news article on the indian navy's efforts of improvement and its goals.

here check out this link:

http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?gid=73


Navy to be fully balanced force in next 10 year: Prakash

NEW DELHI, AUG 7 (PTI)
With the proposed induction of Maritime reconaissance aircraft, fighters and new submarines, Navy would be "fully balanced" maritime force to be reckoned with in the next 10 years, Naval Chief Admiral Arun Prakash said today.
"We are back on track on the submarine front. In a few years time we would be back on desired levels for Naval air operations", he said in reference to reopening of submarine building lines at Mazagoan and efforts to acquire more maritime reconaissance aircraft.
He said with the indigenous ship building efforts in the country gaining strides and other ongoing acquisition programmes like aircraft carrier and other force multipliers coming to fruition, the Navy would be an all purpose maritime force to be reckoned with in the next 10 years.
"Though our maritime interests are now all over, anything that happens from the eastern coast of Africa and the straits of Malacca", he said the immediate footprints for the navy was the Indian Ocean area.
In an interview to Armed forces newsletter 'Sanik Samachar', the Naval Chief said Indian navy was no no longer China or Pakistan centric. "We look way beyond. Out Maritime strategies have to take into account matrix of economic interest, military threats and other national interests".

To don such a role, the Naval Chief said naval training was now being given a new strategic orientation aimed at making sailors and officers more technically qualified to handle hi-tech weapon systems and platforms.
"All the officers joining the executive branch would be offered technical degrees like B-Tech, which would be completed during the path of their training with the Navy," Admiral Prakash said.
He said the training exercise would be technologically most modern, relevant to take care of navy's future needs.
On recent controversies of some of his family members being involved in trying to influence naval purchases, the Naval Chief said he had no time to think about such matters. "I always beleive that if you try to something good and big, it affects many. While most of the people would be happy, there would be some who would be unhappy or would try to pick holes", he said. "But, I am happy with the work I am doing", the naval chief concluded.

 

[contedicavour]

Guys theres way too much bs floating around about IN's future plans.
The IN wanted the Aster 15/30 but was offered Barak II. Now the Barak II is in joint development. With out additional boasters the SAM has a range of 80 km. Keeping in mind that PN has air launched Harpoons the range is extended for the IN to 120 km with another boaster. India and Israel are also jointly developing a naval PAR with four panels. Theres a picture of it on the internet. As for INs anti-ship missiles. There is no way the Switchblade will be so easily be replaced by Klub in the air launched role from helecopters, expecially when Dhurv and Seakings aren't large enough. Switchblade will be around for a while along with Sea Eagle. DRDO is working on a light helecopter launched anti-ship missile for both Dhurv and Tejas. Weather it meterializes is another issue. The Klubs that are being used for P-28 might by anti-sub not anti-ship. There also might be chance the defensive weapons suite might be Khastan or by a far stretch, Trishul. Either way its still a kick butt corvette. For the Indian Navy, its all about its Carrier/s. Harriers/Flacrums/Bears/Tejas gives it a long arm and SeaKings/Dhurvs do the same. Thus cutting the need to counter submarines and ships with more submarines and ships.

From where do the Israelis take their PAR technology ? They don't have it themselves and they are already developing one for India ?? I'm not underestimating their technological capabilities, but I'm surprised India would want to develop such a key component of their AAW capabilities with a country that doesn't have any ship with PAR or medium/long range SAMs... and I'm not even being ironic about the performance of what they have so far (I'm referring to the Saar V corvette off Lebanon).
Once we know more about the radar, we can discuss about whether it's useful or not to extend the Barak II's range with boosters. If the PAR radar for example is comparable to a French Herakles (French FREMM, Singapore Delta frigates) then it cannot support efficiently missiles beyond 50+ km. That's why Aster30s cannot be operated from those naval platforms.
Happy to discuss.

cheers

 

[kams]

There is lot of speculation that Barak II will be coupled to ELTA MF-STAR radar. Even the range of Barak II (70-80 Km) is also guestimate, I could not find any official reference to range of Barak II.

 

[dabrownguy]

The Israels already have the technology avaliable. They've intergrated a lot of radars and build many as well. Including Green Pine which has a 500 km search range. All you have to is take land based radars like this and put it on a ship. Even India could do it. Its just easier when you have a Jew though.
The source I have is on PDF at this link. The orginal is from Janes.

http://www.janes.com/defence/naval_forces/news/jnws/jnws060531_1_n.shtml

Operating in the E/F-band, MF-STAR uses four fixed-array faces based on a modular tile array architecture (each tile containing 16 Gallium Arsenide transmit/receive modules) to allow for scaleability in the size of the antenna aperture.

According to Elta, MF-STAR is able to initiate tracks against sea-skimming missiles at ranges in excess of 25 km, and out to more than 250 km for a high-flying combat aircraft. EL/M-2248 is also able to provide mid-course guidance for active or semi-active anti-aircraft missiles, and can slave illuminators for semi-active guided missiles.

IAI and India's Defence Research and Development Organisation concluded a deal to jointly develop Barak-8 in New Delhi on 27 January 2006, after almost two years of negotiations.

The joint development programme is valued at about USD330 million, to be split equally between the two countries. Reports from Delhi suggest that Barak-8 and the EL/M-2248 radar will be fitted to the Indian Navy's new Project 15A destroyers.

Perhaps Bob knows something abouth this development. I certianly doubt its a seceret or new.

I'm not sure about the light anti-ship missile from DRDO. But there was and probabiliy is one being designed. You know DRDO. Another 5 years and maybe we'll see a model. Unless the Israels take charge.

 

[kams]

The joint development programme is valued at about USD330 million, to be split equally between the two countries. Reports from Delhi suggest that Barak-8 and the EL/M-2248 radar will be fitted to the Indian Navy's new Project 15A destroyers.

All talk about ELTA MF-STAR being used for Barak II (or Barak 8...whatever the name may be) is based on inference drawn by media or defence experts based on existing radars of Elta. There is not a single official comment about the radar or the range of Barak II by either DRDO or IAI. However these inferences are logical, MF-STAR is a capable system with a tracking range for high flying Fighter aircraft of 250 km and its performance can easily enhanced.
Here is the link to ELTA MF-Star. Assuming MF-STAR is the radar for BARAK II, could we debate the capability of the system and it's suitability for IN.

 

[tphuang]

All talk about ELTA MF-STAR being used for Barak II (or Barak 8...whatever the name may be) is based on inference drawn by media or defence experts based on existing radars of Elta. There is not a single official comment about the radar or the range of Barak II by either DRDO or IAI. However these inferences are logical, MF-STAR is a capable system with a tracking range for high flying Fighter aircraft of 250 km and its performance can easily enhanced.
Here is the link to ELTA MF-Star. Assuming MF-STAR is the radar for BARAK II, could we debate the capability of the system and it's suitability for IN.

sorry, but can you post the actual link please?

All you have to is take land based radars like this and put it on a ship.

I don't think it's that simple. Although I do agree that Israel has the technology for naval PAR.

 

[kams]

Link to MF-STAR

sorry, but can you post the actual link please?

oops, sorry, I forgot to post the link.

MF-STAR

MF-STAR stands for Multi-Function Surveillance Track and Guidance Radar.

 

[contedicavour]

oops, sorry, I forgot to post the link.

MF-STAR

MF-STAR stands for Multi-Function Surveillance Track and Guidance Radar.

Thks, it is interesting.
A shame it doesn't specify how many targets it can simultaneously track (and guide if the AAW missiles are semi-active). It claims a range of 250km against aircrafts, though that seems to me medium range, not long range. Radars such as S1850 or even RAN40L have 400+ km range, and EMPAR itself has proven it can track 300 targets 200+km away and guide missiles at them.
I wonder if there's anything more specific around ?

cheers

 

[Grand Danois]

It reminds me the most of the AN/SPY-1F.

 

[contedicavour]

It reminds me the most of the AN/SPY-1F.

You mean the one on the Norwegian Nansen FFGs ?
I think you are being a bit too optimistic here, the SPY-1F is the latest evolution of the most sophisticated type of AAW radars around, and Israel would be able to develop a copy so fast ??

cheers