Indian Navy (IN) News and Discussion

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contedicavour

New Member
kams said:
Russian equivalent of GPS;) . here is the link

GLONAS

By the way these are Ballistic missiles, why do you need terminal guidence? especially with a nuclear Tip? Do ballistic missiles have that kind of guidence?
Thanks for the link, I'll go develop my culture on this Russian GPS :)

You are right ballistic missiles launched against a large enough target that can't move don't need guidance.
Though unless you are using them for nuclear warheads, they are easier to intercept (not least because you can guess the trajectory against a high priority target), impossible to manoeuvre while in flight, not usable against ships (unless you are attacking a harbour)...
If I were an admiral, I would be happy with my Brahmos/Yakhont Onyx and leave the cumbersome IRBMs to somebody else ;)

cheers
 

kams

New Member
OOps was not thinking this through when I wrote about terminal guidence in Ballistic missile. Prothvi does have terminal guidence as its trajectory is not purely ballistic. Terminal guidence is GPS, Glonas, Radar Scene correlation (?). Here is the link to Bharat Rakshak's Prothvi site.

Prithvi
 

aaaditya

New Member
contedicavour said:
Well the Italian navy site has a lot of information, but unfortunately no translation in English. You will however find design and specifications.

http://www.marina.difesa.it/unita/cacciamine.htm

Tonnage: 503 t.pc. (I serie); 672 t.pc. (II serie)
Dimensions: 49,9 x 9,6 x 2,6 (4,2) m (I serie);
52,5 x 9,6 x 2,6 (4,2) m (II serie)
Personnel: 4 + 43
Engines : 1 D Grandi Motori Trieste BL-230.8M; 3 D (for minehunting) Isotta Fraschini ID-36-SS6V; (1 electrical)
Power: 1.985 HP (1.460 kW)
Speed : 14 kn; 6 kn (in minehunting)
Autonomy: 2.500 miles / 12 kn
Weapons: 1 ÷ 2-20/70 mm or 2-25/90 mm

The hull is made of reinforced synthetic glass fiber, with max 12 cm thick so as to enhance resistance to underwater explosions. The diesel engine is suspended in a special system independent of the hull itself, while auxiliary power is above water to reduce acoustic and magnetic readings. Engines and systems are de-magnetized and isolated acoustically. The whole engine and propulsion system is designed for silent propulsion with no vibrations. There are 3 auxiliary propellers to manoeuvre in silence in any direction.
Equipment includes Motorola MRS III/GPS, tracking radar Datamat SSN-714, search & underwater hunting sonars for sweeping & hunting plus hunting drones Pluto and MIN Mk2.
So far, this class has been sold to USN (12), Australia (6), Malaysia (4), Thailand (2), Nigeria (2). Besides the 12 in Italian service.

cheers
thanks buddy,i believe you have just described the lerici class,also known as gaeta and huon,and mahamiru.

by the way do you know what is its weapons fitment?
 

aaaditya

New Member
contedicavour said:
Thanks for the link, I'll go develop my culture on this Russian GPS :)

You are right ballistic missiles launched against a large enough target that can't move don't need guidance.
Though unless you are using them for nuclear warheads, they are easier to intercept (not least because you can guess the trajectory against a high priority target), impossible to manoeuvre while in flight, not usable against ships (unless you are attacking a harbour)...
If I were an admiral, I would be happy with my Brahmos/Yakhont Onyx and leave the cumbersome IRBMs to somebody else ;)

cheers
i believe that the ballistic missiles are useless against the ships or moving targets,but they are extremly usefull against land based targets ,because of the warhead that they can carry(in terms of weight).
 

aaaditya

New Member
hey guys here is some good news ,seems that the atv nuclear submarine's reactor is ready ,just check out the latest article in jane's defence weekly.

i dont have the link,but i will try to post the article from another website,it gives pretty detailed information about the atv project.

Indian SSN reactor fully online

Rahul Bedi JDW Correspondent
New Delhi

Indian defence and atomic scientists claim to have successfully developed the reactor for the country's long-delayed nuclear-powered Advanced Technology Vessel ( ATV) submarine (SSN) programme.

The 100 MWe reactor - developed jointly by the Department of Atomic Energy (DAE), the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and the navy - went critical at Kalpakkam in southern India in October 2004, but official sources say that it is now "fully operational".

A miniaturised version is now under construction for integration with the ATV, which is being built at Visakhapatnam on the east coast.

The ATV is based on the Soviet-era Type 670A Skat (NATO designation 'Charlie' class) design - following experience gained during three years leasing a Russian Skat from 1988 - and is expected to be launched in 2007. The 124 m-long, 4,000 ton boat will then proceed to sea trials scheduled for 2009-10 over a decade behind schedule. India has consistently denied any knowledge of the ATV ever since the programme began in 1976: two years after the country conducted its first underground atomic test. However, more recently, senior officials have tacitly acknowledged its existence.

In July, Indian Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee inspected the ATV's reactor project while participating in the 20th anniversary celebrations of the commissioning of the fast breeder test reactor at Kalpakkam.

Sources told Jane's that the Prototype Testing Centre at the Kalpakkam facility will be used to test the submarines turbine's and propellers, while a similar facility at Visakhapatnam will run trials on its main turbines and gear box. Officials familiar with the ATV project said the highly enriched uranium fuel for the reactor had been supplied by the Rare Materials Project (RMP) near Mysore in southern India.

The officials added that a four- to five-year delay in the reactor reaching criticality was due to the extended time taken by the RMP to produce an adequate quantity of uranium.

While many components of the reactor - including the steam-generator and the control rod mechanism - were fabricated domestically, senior navy sources said Moscow had reportedly helped Indian scientists overcome technical hurdles.

They assert that the assistance included not only designing the ATV's reactor but also providing 'guidelines' in eventually mating it with the SSN's hull, though officials from both sides formally deny the collaboration.

In 2001, the involvement of Mumbai-based private defence contractors Larsen & Toubro (L&T) in western India helped kick-start the stalled ATV project.

L&T was awarded the contract to build the SSN's hull (code named P 4102 ) at its Hazira dockyard facility in western Gujarat state, 350 km north of Mumbai and has already floated sections of it on a barge to Visakhapatnam.
 

aaaditya

New Member
hey guys can anyone explain the concept of a reactor to core design.

i believe that most modern nuclear submarines use reactors of this design,which need to be fuelled with high enriched uranium only once during their lifetime,thus reducing the need for costly maintainence and fuelling of the submarine's reactor,seems that this reactor requires 90-95% high enriched uranium.
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
aaaditya said:
thanks buddy,i believe you have just described the lerici class,also known as gaeta and huon,and mahamiru.

by the way do you know what is its weapons fitment?
The Australian Huon Class Minehunters which is a modified version of the Gaeta Class, are fitted with a 30mm cannon fitted with a remotely operated turret and advanced EO/IR targetting system and 2x 0.50cal HMG's, plus small arms etc.

They also each use 2x "Double Eagle" underwater mine disposal vehicles and a range of underwater explosive charges for mine disposal. They can also accomodate "clearance diving teams" for extended periods to allow for greater flexibility in mine clearance ops...
 

aaaditya

New Member
Aussie Digger said:
The Australian Huon Class Minehunters which is a modified version of the Gaeta Class, are fitted with a 30mm cannon fitted with a remotely operated turret and advanced EO/IR targetting system and 2x 0.50cal HMG's, plus small arms etc.

They also each use 2x "Double Eagle" underwater mine disposal vehicles and a range of underwater explosive charges for mine disposal. They can also accomodate "clearance diving teams" for extended periods to allow for greater flexibility in mine clearance ops...
thanks aussie.

one more question for you:

1)upto what depth can the mines be cleared using the mine disposal vehicles?
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
aaaditya said:
thanks aussie.

one more question for you:

1)upto what depth can the mines be cleared using the mine disposal vehicles?
Up to about 500m's according to the SAAB website( http://products.saab.se/PDBWeb/ShowProduct.aspx?ProductCategoryId=269&ProductGroupId=369&ProductId=655) (I believe though the Huon sonar system can apparently detect mines at greater than 1000m's. I don't suppose RAN is very keen on providing "exact" distances for this sort of thing...

the way they dispose of mines is by carrying a remote charge linked via a fibre optic cable. Once the mine is located, the "ROV" (remote operated vehicle) deploys the "disposable charge" to within cm's of the mine and the ROV is recovered. The charge is then detonated via the fibre optic link from a safe distance...

A video of the system can be found at that website, though it's a bit on the tedious side...
 

aaaditya

New Member
Aussie Digger said:
Up to about 500m's according to the SAAB website( http://products.saab.se/PDBWeb/ShowProduct.aspx?ProductCategoryId=269&ProductGroupId=369&ProductId=655) (I believe though the Huon sonar system can apparently detect mines at greater than 1000m's. I don't suppose RAN is very keen on providing "exact" distances for this sort of thing...

the way they dispose of mines is by carrying a remote charge linked via a fibre optic cable. Once the mine is located, the "ROV" (remote operated vehicle) deploys the "disposable charge" to within cm's of the mine and the ROV is recovered. The charge is then detonated via the fibre optic link from a safe distance...

A video of the system can be found at that website, though it's a bit on the tedious side...
thanks very much.

i believe india will go for a similiar version,i believe the spanish segura is also in running for this order.
 

contedicavour

New Member
aaaditya said:
thanks buddy,i believe you have just described the lerici class,also known as gaeta and huon,and mahamiru.

by the way do you know what is its weapons fitment?
Anything from 12.7mm to 40/70mm guns guided by Dardo-E illuminators. You can also add MANPADS aft for Stinger or Mistral.

cheers
 

aaaditya

New Member
hey guys vice admiral sureesh mehta is to be the new naval chief.

here check out this link:

http://pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=20457

Vice Admiral Sureesh Mehta has been appointed as the next Chief of the Naval Staff. Admiral Mehta will take over from Admiral Arun Prakash, who retires on 31 October 2006.

Promoted to Rear Admiral in 1995, he served as Flag Officer Goa Area, Assistant Controller Carrier Projects and Assistant Chief of Personnel. He commanded the Western Fleet, the ‘sword arm’ of the Indian Navy, during Operation Parakram. In the rank of Vice Admiral, his prestigious appointments include the Chief of Personnel, DG Coast Guard and Deputy Chief of Naval Staff at Naval Headquarters. He is currently the Flag Officer Commanding-in-Chief of Eastern Naval Command at Visakhapatnam.

The Admiral assumed command of the premier Eastern Naval Command of the Indian Navy on 30 Sep 05. During his tenure, the Eastern Naval Command (ENC) has been involved in numerous operational missions in the Bay of Bengal and South East Asia. Also, the first ever President’s Fleet Review on the Eastern Sea Board was held in Feb 06, which saw the participation of over 66 ships and 50 aircraft of the combined Indian Fleet.

. The Admiral was born on 18 Aug 1947. He is an alumnus of the National Defence Academy and was commissioned in the Indian Navy in July 1967. He is an aviator of the ‘old mould’, having joined the Fleet Air Arm early and has extensively operated from our earlier aircraft carrier, INS Vikrant, flying conventional jets, the Sea Hawk aircraft.The Flag Officer is a graduate of the prestigious Defence Services Staff College, Wellington, and the National Defence College, New Delhi. His earlier important afloat and ashore appointments include the command of the frigates INS Beas and INS Godavari as also the premier Naval Air Station – INS Garuda.

The Admiral was awarded the ‘Ati Vishist Seva Medal’ in 1995 and ‘Param Vishist Seva Medal’ in 2005 for his exceptional meritorious services.
 

aaaditya

New Member
hey guys vice admiral rustam faramroze contractor is to be the new irector general of the indian coast guard.he seems to be good enough to be the head of the navy,poor guy must be feeling aggreived at being given the coast guard when he deserved something much better.

here check out this link:

http://pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=20447

Vice Admiral Rustom Faramroze Contractor has taken over as new Director General of Coast Guard.

Vice Admiral Contractor was commissioned in the Indian Navy on July 01, 1971. He hails from Nagpur in Maharashtra where he did his schooling at the St. Francis De’sales High School and thereafter joined the National Defence Academy, Kharakvasla, Pune.

Vice Admiral Contractor, a specialist in Navigation and Direction has held various important operational and staff appointments both afloat and ashore. He was the Commanding Officer of the first Offshore Patrol Vessel (OPV), INS Sukanya, which he commissioned in South Korea. He has held the rare distinction of Commanding INS Rajput and INS Ranvijay as also the Command of the navy’s aircraft carrier, INS Virat. Vice Admiral Contractor has also had the privilege of commanding the prestigious Western Fleet of the Indian Navy.

He has held important and challenging shore appointments such as the Commanding Officer INS Jarawa & Naval Officer-in-Charge, Port Blair, Commanding Officer INS Mandovi and Commandant, Naval Academy, Goa, Chief Staff Officer (Operations) at the Headquarters, Eastern Naval Command, Vishakhapatnam, Assistant Chief of Naval Staff (Information Warfare and Operations) at Naval Headquarters, New Delhi and Chief of Staff at the Headquarters, Southern Naval Command, Kochi. Prior to his present appointment he was the Assistant Controller of Carrier Projects at Naval Headquarters, New Delhi.

He is an alumnus of the College of Naval Warfare, Mumbai and the Royal College of Defence Studies at London, UK. He is a recipient of Ati Vishisht Seva Medal and Nao Sena Medal (Devotion to Duty) awarded by the President of India.
 

aaaditya

New Member
hey guys check out this article ,about the problems facing the new naval chief.pay attention to page 2 which clearly mentions that 33 warships are currently under construction and another 30 may be built.

here check out this link:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1948998.cms

NEW DELHI: When vice-admiral Sureesh Mehta takes over as the new Navy chief on November 1, his topmost priority would be to "consolidate" his force's rapidly-transforming role from being just "a silent service" to a potent maritime power acting as "a stabilising force" in the Indian Ocean Region (IOR).

Though reported much earlier by TOI, the government on Friday formally announced that Mehta, at present chief of the Visakhapatnam-based Eastern Naval Command, would take over from admiral Arun Prakash when he retires on October 31.

Mehta would take over at a time when the Navy, though much smaller than Army and IAF, has emerged as the most "visible" symbol of India's growing military might in recent years. The role played by it as a diplomatic instrument to further the country's geostrategic objectives came through when it escorted American ships through Malacca Straits in 2002, rapidly deployed warships to help neighbouring countries during the killer tsunami in 2004, or even evacuated Indian nationals from war-torn Lebanon recently.

Though the foundation for this was laid by admirals Madhvendra Singh and Arun Prakash, Mehta will have to make it a major thrust area. Mehta, who will serve till August 2009, will of course have to ensure force-levels do not fall below the present 130 warships and 16 submarines.

Experts say India's resurgence as an economic power depends to a large extent on peace being maintained in IOR. "Apart from optimum utilisation of available warships and networking of weapon and sensor capabilities, he will have to convince the government for long-term committed budgetary support," said one.

While the Rs 18,798-crore project to build six Scorpene submarines at Mazagon Docks between 2012 and 2017 has now kicked off, Navy also has as many as 33 warships "under production or order" from indigenous or foreign shipyards. These include three more Talwar-class "stealth" frigates, the indigenous air defence ship and the refurbished Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier.

Not only will Mehta have to ensure all these projects progress smoothly, he will also have to get the government's firm support for another 30 warships after these 33. This is necessary since over 70 existing warships will have to be gradually replaced in the coming 10-15 years.

Another thrust area would have to be the induction of nuclear submarines and submarine-launched ballistic missile capability, which are needed for effective and secure "second-strike capabilities".

As someone from the naval aviation wing, Mehta should also take a hard look at Navy's rather thin fleet of Long-Range Maritime Patrol (LRMP) aircraft despite India having a 7,516-km coastline, 1,197 islands and a 2.01 million sq km exclusive economic zone. At present, Navy has only three IL-38s, recently upgraded with the multi-functional "Sea Dragon mission suite", and eight aging Tupolev-142Ms, apart from a small fleet of Dorniers and Israeli UAVs for medium-level snooping missions.

Though the acquisition process for eight LRMP aircraft has been now initiated, the process needs to be fast-tracked so that deliveries can commence before this decade ends. Pakistan, of course, is on course to induct P-3C Orions from the US.
 
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kams

New Member
Intrestingly, Admiral Suresh Mehta like his predecessor is a naval aviator. In a recent interview he said for the next 20 years 35% of Naval Budget will be dedicated to expanding the Naval air arm. This will be a big boost to naval air arm. He is also stressing on IN's interaction with neighbours in South East Asian region.

Indian Navy should interact with neighbours: Navy Chief
 

Reichsleiter

Banned Member
US warship gets approval to join Indian Navy

An American constructed amphibious vessel is going to join the Indian Naval fleet shortly. The American warship, USS Trenton, is a multi-purpose vessel which can be used for disaster and relief operations. The ship can also be used as a platform for command and control during mishaps at sea, offshore oil installation fires and maritime air accidents. Second only in size to INS Viraat, the 28,000-tonne aircraft carrier, the Landing Platform Dock (LPD) USS Trenton is a 16,560-ton vessel, which can accommodate four medium lift helicopters or a combination of two light helicopters and two Harrier jump jets. The 35-year old vessel is armed with two 25 mm chain guns and eight 50- calibre machine guns. Its 24,000 shaft horsepower gives it a top speed of 21 knots. The Indian Navy is also negotiating for six SH-3 Sea King helicopters to operate from the 173-metre long Trenton. The package has been negotiated at a cost of US$ 48.23289 million which include four Landing Craft Mechanised (LCMs) besides the Landing Platform Dock.

http://www.zeenews.com/znnew/articles.asp?aid=318022&sid=NAT&ssid=
 
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Big-E

Banned Member
Trenton is really going to magnify IN's amphibous lift capability. My concern is her age and her size. She is 35 years old, has run into a submarine, and had catastrophic engine failure causing a dozen casualties. The nearest size amphib is a Magyar at 3,600 tons... Trenton is over 16,000. The only other thing in that bracket is Viraat. The structural damage when she ran into the Jack is deep into the hull, at the time it wasn't a problem but it might be in her old age. I only see 10 years of operation before she needs to be scrapped... more like 5.:eek:
 

aaaditya

New Member
Big-E said:
Trenton is really going to magnify IN's amphibous lift capability. My concern is her age and her size. She is 35 years old, has run into a submarine, and had catastrophic engine failure causing a dozen casualties. The nearest size amphib is a Magyar at 3,600 tons... Trenton is over 16,000. The only other thing in that bracket is Viraat. The structural damage when she ran into the Jack is deep into the hull, at the time it wasn't a problem but it might be in her old age. I only see 10 years of operation before she needs to be scrapped... more like 5.:eek:
what about gorshkov ,it has sufferd from boiler room fires and explosion,what about ins delhi which suffered accidents before induction,what about ins tabar the latest russian project 1135.6 krivack class of stealth frigate which collided with merchant tanker and had a deep and long fracture on its sides,all these vessels have suffered and yet have been brought back to life.
that is one great thing about naval ships and submarines ,they might have been sunk and resurrected and yet have successfull and long carriers if they are fully upgraded and properly maintained.

besides i believe the trenton will be used for training,command control and as a hospital ship ,disaster management vessel,indian navy is already conducting exploratory talks with grse-kolkatta for the manufacture of lpd's,which i believe will form the bulk of indian navy's amphibious sea lift capability.
 

Big-E

Banned Member
aaaditya said:
what about gorshkov ,it has sufferd from boiler room fires and explosion,what about ins delhi which suffered accidents before induction,what about ins tabar the latest russian project 1135.6 krivack class of stealth frigate which collided with merchant tanker and had a deep and long fracture on its sides,all these vessels have suffered and yet have been brought back to life.
that is one great thing about naval ships and submarines ,they might have been sunk and resurrected and yet have successfull and long carriers if they are fully upgraded and properly maintained.

besides i believe the trenton will be used for training,command control and as a hospital ship ,disaster management vessel,indian navy is already conducting exploratory talks with grse-kolkatta for the manufacture of lpd's,which i believe will form the bulk of indian navy's amphibious sea lift capability.
All the vessels you listed aren't nearly as old as Trenton, that was only one of 3 points, the others being structurally damaged and size. Gorshkov is a necessity IMO. IN can't wait for the first ADS so they have to buy it. It isn't that old but America does take better care of her ships. My thing is the age really, I can't see why they couldn't wait to make their own NEW LPD.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
Big-E said:
Trenton is really going to magnify IN's amphibous lift capability. My concern is her age and her size. She is 35 years old, has run into a submarine, and had catastrophic engine failure causing a dozen casualties. The nearest size amphib is a Magyar at 3,600 tons... Trenton is over 16,000. The only other thing in that bracket is Viraat. The structural damage when she ran into the Jack is deep into the hull, at the time it wasn't a problem but it might be in her old age. I only see 10 years of operation before she needs to be scrapped... more like 5.:eek:
The head of the Indian navy has said that they plan to build 3 large LPDs in the next naval construction plan, so it looks as if Trenton isn't planned to serve more than your 10 year limit. Probably best seen as a quick fix, & a way to get experience with big LPDs.

BTW, the Indian LSTs are based on the old British Round Tables. They're a bit larger than you say, 5600 tons, not 3600. They're building 3 new ones, Shardul-class. Basically a modernised version of the Magars. All launched now. The Magars aren't exactly ancient - 1987 & 1997 - so they're good for quite a while longer.
 
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