Indian Navy (IN) News and Discussion

[Archer]

Possible candidate for what? I haven't seen anything in the IN proposals or discussions about using photonics/optronics. It would also mean a major redesign of the subs layout and combat system if it was going to be used to maximum benefit.

It has been offered for the refit of IN's Type 209s as well as the oh so secret that everyone and his cat knows about it ATV project.

 

[tphuang]

I think you're missing the point - the advantage of photonics masts is that they allow the sub design and internal configuration to be redesigned and not along traditional designs.

Of course you can retro fit it - but you're not maximising the benefits of the capability in the overall sub design - this is especially so on a 40-50 year old core design (which the Charlie Class are) and which has thus already been developed..

wait, so the ATV is based on the Charlie Class? I thought it was going to be more advanced than that.

 

[aaaditya]

wait, so the ATV is based on the Charlie Class? I thought it was going to be more advanced than that.

we cant be sure about that,initially it was believed to be based on the russian charlie class ,india had gained working experience on one charlie class of submarine.

however jane sources had mentioned ,that due to extensive russian influence ,the indian submarine resembles the project 885 severodvinsk class ,also israel is believed to be heavily involved in this project.

 

[samraat]

we cant be sure about that,initially it was believed to be based on the russian charlie class ,india had gained working experience on one charlie class of submarine.

however jane sources had mentioned ,that due to extensive russian influence ,the indian submarine resembles the project 885 severodvinsk class ,also israel is believed to be heavily involved in this project.

Hi this is my first post , i will like to add some thing here , CHARLIE class is quite obselete , din't you think so ???

indian navy did had experience on charlie class submarine , but i don't feel that accounted as indians headed for Russian docks for the training before akulla arrives and that 's what ATV should look like there are reports that india is also keen to have an JV with russian navy in builing a entire new sub ti be named Akulla 'Tigra' , sorry i don't have any credible link for that i will be posting that ASAP ,



So why should Indian navy be keen on vintage Charlie class

 

[aaaditya]

hey guys here is an interesting article on the projected requirements of the indian navy by 2020,i agree with most of them ,though i believe that the indian navy should also try to induct missile firing catamarans.

here check out this link:

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/SRR/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=21&Itemid=26

 

[contedicavour]

hey guys here is an interesting article on the projected requirements of the indian navy by 2020,i agree with most of them ,though i believe that the indian navy should also try to induct missile firing catamarans.

here check out this link:

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/SRR/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=21&Itemid=26

Very interesting article, as most material posted on Bharat Rakshak internet site
A few questions for you
> in order to replace the obsolete Kashin DDGs, wouldn't a more advanced design be better than a follow-on to the Delhi DDGs ? I'll be specific, the ships are excellent at ASUW but IMHO lack adequate AAW (both in radars and in missiles, since the SA-N-7/17 is too short ranged)
> in order to replace the Kilos, why not standardize the Navy on Scorpene ? The Scorpene seem to me to be better than Lada (sensor suite and proven AIP technology), though I'd like your opinion
> is the MIG29K the best option to equip your 2 carriers under construction/refit ? Wouldn't SU33 be better in terms of range and payload ?

cheers

 

[aaaditya]

Very interesting article, as most material posted on Bharat Rakshak internet site
A few questions for you
> in order to replace the obsolete Kashin DDGs, wouldn't a more advanced design be better than a follow-on to the Delhi DDGs ? I'll be specific, the ships are excellent at ASUW but IMHO lack adequate AAW (both in radars and in missiles, since the SA-N-7/17 is too short ranged)
> in order to replace the Kilos, why not standardize the Navy on Scorpene ? The Scorpene seem to me to be better than Lada (sensor suite and proven AIP technology), though I'd like your opinion
> is the MIG29K the best option to equip your 2 carriers under construction/refit ? Wouldn't SU33 be better in terms of range and payload ?

cheers

1) p-15a's would be pretty excellent warships,in all three dimensions of warfare(land,air and sea),besides the firepower of the delhi class in land attack,asw/asuw warfare,these warships will have more advanced radars,the super barak surface to air missile (being jointly developed with israel and claimed to have a range of 70+ kms),it will also incorporate stealth technology.

2)india is very much interested in the russo-italian project based on the lada,the attractive feature of this project is the flexibility that it offers.mdl cannot build the scorpenes fast enough to meet the navy's requirements and hence the need for a second submarine line(india currently operates 3 types of submarines).indian navy would prefer its own sensor suite on the lada ,with italian designed aip based on the german fuel cells,indigenous batteries etc.the indigenous sonar has been found to be superior to the ones used on the latest variant of the kilo class(meant for export),and have been retrofitted on the indian kilo's the indigenous batteries have also found their way in the kilo's.

3)su33 would be excellent ,but can it be filled on the gorshkov?can enough of them be carried on board the gorshkov to maintain a powerfull force and a reserve?these were the questions faced by the indian navy when they evaluated the su33,mig29k and the rafale for the gorshkov?they found that the su33 was too heavy and occupied too much space to be used effectively from the gorshkov,also the mig29 offers commonality with the indian airforce mig29's and hence the mig29k's were selected.

 

[slim]

I feel that although p-15A would be a good and cost effective platform in the short term I feel its hull design is dated. India very urgently needs to expand and modernise its ship building facilities. Before the last of The P-15A are commisioned India needs to start another line of more modern Destroyers in Shipyards other than Mdl . And I feel Admiral MadhvendraSinghs stated requirements for amphibious vessels were very modest. although India has a fairly impressive surface fleet , Its leaders seem to have grossly neglected both its amphibious and submarine fleet. Very likely Submarine Problem will be rectified but India will sorely lack amphibious capability commensurate with its status and size. By 2020 India must be able to deploy3-4 brigades along with their logistics and support and aim for atleast 2 LHDs along with the proposed LSDs. the Italians and the Spanish who have a far smaller navy compared to India are still retaining and aiming for a much Larger amphibious capability than India eventhough very likely India needs it much more than either of them. Similary Indian Surface fleet is very close to the size of those of Britain and France, but in amphibious capability India is far far behind

 

[fightermki]

india will surely have to put in a lot of effort since many of the ships are going to be decomissioned in next few years , since most of the ships are coming from the goi ship building yards they have to go for capacity expansion even if they want to be on the current schedule. i think that since l&T and kirloskar are seriously bulling for production of naval assets less technological needs must be sourced to them <tankers,amphibous crafts,patrol vessels,coast guard ships, corvettes too> and relieve the psu units to concentrate on technologicaly intensive projects like destroyers,frigates,submarines etc. no blue water navy dreams are going to be fullfilled until a country is going to induct more ships then retiring ones on a regular basis, private sector involvement will also increase competition and deliveries will be strictly on shedule. more over it will also give a boost to domestic shipbilding considering that most of the container vessels and tankers of shipping corporation of india are also on decomissionig spree and they need around 100 high capacity vessels even to restore the current stats private sector indian companies can have their share of profits too and maybe in future they could comptete with the big boys of shipbuilding.

 

[aaaditya]

india will surely have to put in a lot of effort since many of the ships are going to be decomissioned in next few years , since most of the ships are coming from the goi ship building yards they have to go for capacity expansion even if they want to be on the current schedule. i think that since l&T and kirloskar are seriously bulling for production of naval assets less technological needs must be sourced to them <tankers,amphibous crafts,patrol vessels,coast guard ships, corvettes too> and relieve the psu units to concentrate on technologicaly intensive projects like destroyers,frigates,submarines etc. no blue water navy dreams are going to be fullfilled until a country is going to induct more ships then retiring ones on a regular basis, private sector involvement will also increase competition and deliveries will be strictly on shedule. more over it will also give a boost to domestic shipbilding considering that most of the container vessels and tankers of shipping corporation of india are also on decomissionig spree and they need around 100 high capacity vessels even to restore the current stats private sector indian companies can have their share of profits too and maybe in future they could comptete with the big boys of shipbuilding.

currently as many as 30 new ships of various sizes and displacements are under various stages of construction (ranging from destroyers to an aircraft carrier),the indian governemnet has also granted its approval in principle for another 34 vessels.added to this the private sector giant larsen and toubro has also entered shipbuilding industry in order to manufacture vessels for the indian navy,indian shipping industry and for export,they have already won an export order worth 100 million dollars for commercial vessles.

the focus of the indian navy in feature will be advanced stealth technology and uuv's.

 

[contedicavour]

1) p-15a's would be pretty excellent warships,in all three dimensions of warfare(land,air and sea),besides the firepower of the delhi class in land attack,asw/asuw warfare,these warships will have more advanced radars,the super barak surface to air missile (being jointly developed with israel and claimed to have a range of 70+ kms),it will also incorporate stealth technology.

2)india is very much interested in the russo-italian project based on the lada,the attractive feature of this project is the flexibility that it offers.mdl cannot build the scorpenes fast enough to meet the navy's requirements and hence the need for a second submarine line(india currently operates 3 types of submarines).indian navy would prefer its own sensor suite on the lada ,with italian designed aip based on the german fuel cells,indigenous batteries etc.the indigenous sonar has been found to be superior to the ones used on the latest variant of the kilo class(meant for export),and have been retrofitted on the indian kilo's the indigenous batteries have also found their way in the kilo's.

3)su33 would be excellent ,but can it be filled on the gorshkov?can enough of them be carried on board the gorshkov to maintain a powerfull force and a reserve?these were the questions faced by the indian navy when they evaluated the su33,mig29k and the rafale for the gorshkov?they found that the su33 was too heavy and occupied too much space to be used effectively from the gorshkov,also the mig29 offers commonality with the indian airforce mig29's and hence the mig29k's were selected.

Thanks for your interesting assessment.
I still have a few remarks though :

> the super Barak would still have too short a range vs the SM-2 III, Aster 30, SA-N-6 and the new Chinese missiles on Type 052C DDGs. What about radar technology, would it be comparable with Aegis or even Empar ?

> I am happy that the Indian Navy is interested in the Russian-Italian project on AIP SSKs. I am however a bit surprised since the project - last time I read about it - concerned a relatively small SSK, smaller than Lada anyway. I imagine India can adapt it and build it locally, but I'd like more news if you have any.

cheers

 

[contedicavour]

I feel that although p-15A would be a good and cost effective platform in the short term I feel its hull design is dated. India very urgently needs to expand and modernise its ship building facilities. Before the last of The P-15A are commisioned India needs to start another line of more modern Destroyers in Shipyards other than Mdl . And I feel Admiral MadhvendraSinghs stated requirements for amphibious vessels were very modest. although India has a fairly impressive surface fleet , Its leaders seem to have grossly neglected both its amphibious and submarine fleet. Very likely Submarine Problem will be rectified but India will sorely lack amphibious capability commensurate with its status and size. By 2020 India must be able to deploy3-4 brigades along with their logistics and support and aim for atleast 2 LHDs along with the proposed LSDs. the Italians and the Spanish who have a far smaller navy compared to India are still retaining and aiming for a much Larger amphibious capability than India eventhough very likely India needs it much more than either of them. Similary Indian Surface fleet is very close to the size of those of Britain and France, but in amphibious capability India is far far behind

It is true that India has a relatively under-sized amphibious force versus the total size of its naval assets. However its LSTs and the second-hand LPD being transferred from the USN are enough vs the currently conceivable missions the Indian Navy could run in the Indian Ocean, wouldn't they ?

cheers

PS : btw I can't agree with your assessment that Italy has "a far smaller navy compared to India" National pride aside, for the moment the 2 navies have 2 carriers each (considering the Gorshkov+ADS vs Cavour+Garibaldi) with a comparable number of Harriers (and tomorrow F-35 vs Mig29K), 4 modern DDGs vs the 3+3(bldg) Indian Delhi DDGs (the Kashins being inferior because of old SA-N-1 SAMs), and 10 modern FFGs (Maestrale today, FREMM tomorrow) vs 9+3(ordered new Talwars)+?(P17 bldg) FFGs for India. True, India has 2+ times more SSKs than Italy and will have SSNs eventually. Still, I suggest you take the "far smaller" out

 

[kams]

INS Mumbai dreams

Here is an account of evacuation of Indian/Lankan/Nepalese citizens by Indian Naval ships. One more feather in Indian navy's cap

INS Mumbai Dreams

 

[aaaditya]

It is true that India has a relatively under-sized amphibious force versus the total size of its naval assets. However its LSTs and the second-hand LPD being transferred from the USN are enough vs the currently conceivable missions the Indian Navy could run in the Indian Ocean, wouldn't they ?

cheers

PS : btw I can't agree with your assessment that Italy has "a far smaller navy compared to India" National pride aside, for the moment the 2 navies have 2 carriers each (considering the Gorshkov+ADS vs Cavour+Garibaldi) with a comparable number of Harriers (and tomorrow F-35 vs Mig29K), 4 modern DDGs vs the 3+3(bldg) Indian Delhi DDGs (the Kashins being inferior because of old SA-N-1 SAMs), and 10 modern FFGs (Maestrale today, FREMM tomorrow) vs 9+3(ordered new Talwars)+?(P17 bldg) FFGs for India. True, India has 2+ times more SSKs than Italy and will have SSNs eventually. Still, I suggest you take the "far smaller" out

orders have already been placed for 3 additional frigates of the improved talwar class.(you did not mention it in your above list) also for the 8 new p28 stealth corvettes.

 

[aaaditya]

hey guys indian coast guard has now started to expand,it will set up its 11th station on lakshadweep islands and will also develop the beypore port.

here check out this link:

http://www.newindpress.com/NewsItems.asp?ID=IER20060730012209&Page=R&Title=Kerala&Topic=0

Coast Guard unit in Lakshadweep in a year’
Sunday July 30 2006 11:43 IST
KOZHIKODE: The Coast Guard will set up its 11th unit in Lakshadweep, said Coast Guard director general Prabhakaran Paleri while attending a reception accorded to him by the Calicut Chamber of Commerce and Industry in Kozhikode on Saturday.

The unit will be inaugurated in March 2007. “Indian Coast Guard has achieved remarkable growth in a short span of 28 years, compared to the 200-year old American Coast Guard,” opined the director general.

Delivering a lecture on ‘Safeguarding the coastal area’ he said that terrorism has not yet become a serious threat to Kerala.

A discussion on ‘the development of Beypore Port’ was also held. Port director captain Haridas, Chamber president C E Chakkunni and Dr K Moithu were present. A film show depicting the role and functions of Indian Coast Guard was also screened on the occasion.

also check out this link,it contains images of the latest coast guard fast attack craft,the cgs meera behn.

http://www.daijiworld.com/news/news_disp.asp?n_id=24495&n_tit

 

[ajay_ijn]

gary, i have some doubts

Can you plz tell us about Indians ATV, Nuclear Submarine Project.
As u work in the sub industry

Is India capable of building the reactor, putting it in a Submarine and build Submarine capable enough to Counter Chinese??
India faced lot of technical difficulties with that Reactor

And About Brahmos
Can Brahmos be redesigned to fit it inside a 533mm tube ?
Does it decrease brahmos capability ?

And Finally about New Russian Attack Submarine
India is leading two subs for training and experience.
Do u think those Subs will be free from problems and work well?

 

[ajay_ijn]

we cant be sure about that,initially it was believed to be based on the russian charlie class ,india had gained working experience on one charlie class of submarine.

however jane sources had mentioned ,that due to extensive russian influence ,the indian submarine resembles the project 885 severodvinsk class ,also israel is believed to be heavily involved in this project.

God knows what its design is based on but this mysterious India project is taking very long time.
But India SSN was first thought to be of 4000 ton later to be 6000 based on some old Russian attack submarine.

Design can be taken from anywhere but this PWR is the main problem

 

[slim]

I had no intention of offending The Italian Navy. It is a very modern and capable force.What I am reffering to is what Indian Navy will be around 2020 and the vision of Adm Singh. Although The Italian Navy is very impressive I am not very far from the truth if I mean that by 2020 India with its rapidly expanding economy will surpass the Italian Navy greatly with repect to actual tonnage and manpower.However in Quality The Italian Navy will definately be aforce to contend with and relative to Italy's size the Italian Navy is definately very large. but you have to take things in context India is a massive country with very immediate threats and helped by a growing economy its Navy is bound to be a very large one by 2020.I have great respect for the Italian Navy and there was no intention to belittle it. I should have clarified that I was reffering to the 2020 period.

It is true that India has a relatively under-sized amphibious force versus the total size of its naval assets. However its LSTs and the second-hand LPD being transferred from the USN are enough vs the currently conceivable missions the Indian Navy could run in the Indian Ocean, wouldn't they ?

cheers

PS : btw I can't agree with your assessment that Italy has "a far smaller navy compared to India" National pride aside, for the moment the 2 navies have 2 carriers each (considering the Gorshkov+ADS vs Cavour+Garibaldi) with a comparable number of Harriers (and tomorrow F-35 vs Mig29K), 4 modern DDGs vs the 3+3(bldg) Indian Delhi DDGs (the Kashins being inferior because of old SA-N-1 SAMs), and 10 modern FFGs (Maestrale today, FREMM tomorrow) vs 9+3(ordered new Talwars)+?(P17 bldg) FFGs for India. True, India has 2+ times more SSKs than Italy and will have SSNs eventually. Still, I suggest you take the "far smaller" out

 

[slim]

india will surely have to put in a lot of effort since many of the ships are going to be decomissioned in next few years , since most of the ships are coming from the goi ship building yards they have to go for capacity expansion even if they want to be on the current schedule. i think that since l&T and kirloskar are seriously bulling for production of naval assets less technological needs must be sourced to them <tankers,amphibous crafts,patrol vessels,coast guard ships, corvettes too> and relieve the psu units to concentrate on technologicaly intensive projects like destroyers,frigates,submarines etc. no blue water navy dreams are going to be fullfilled until a country is going to induct more ships then retiring ones on a regular basis, private sector involvement will also increase competition and deliveries will be strictly on shedule. more over it will also give a boost to domestic shipbilding considering that most of the container vessels and tankers of shipping corporation of india are also on decomissionig spree and they need around 100 high capacity vessels even to restore the current stats private sector indian companies can have their share of profits too and maybe in future they could comptete with the big boys of shipbuilding.

You mentioned L&T and kirloskar. Do you no where in India are they going to Build and what type of ships Will they build.

 

[Grand Danois]

Larsen and Toubro

That's funny! thought the names had a Danish flair to them.

http://www.larsentoubro.com/about.htm