Indian Navy (IN) News and Discussion

[aaaditya]

hey guys here i an interetsing news article.

seems that the larsen and toubro will set up a new shipbuilding facility to cater to the needs of the indian navy and the commercial shipping,they recently won a major deal offered by a foreign shipping company.

the l and t will invest 1000 crore rupees in setting up this deep water port.

here check out this link:

Link

Larsen & Toubro (L&T) is planning to set up a mega shipyard in the country at an estimated investment of Rs 1,000 crore. L&T owns a shipyard at Hazira near Surat for construction of high-technology vessels of up to 150 metre length and displacement of 20,000 tonne. Currently, L&T is scouting for a deep water facility on the east and west coasts for its second shipyard. “L&T will invest Rs 1,000 crore in the next three years. We are looking for a suitable waterfront with 12 metre draught for the project. The second yard will be ready by 2009,” L&T Chairman and Managing Director A M Naik said. The company is also looking for a CEO for its shipbuilding venture, Naik said. Naik clarified that the company will not enter into partnership for shipbuilding project. “We have the expertise for ship building. We will not be focussing on general cargo vessel in the new project, instead we will go for specialised vessels,” Naik pointed out. To add, the company is also planning to set up three modular fabrication yard, including one in the Gulf. Earlier, its shipyard at Hazira won a key contract for construction of four ships valued at over Rs 440 crore from the Netherlands-based Zadeko Ship Management CV. Production of the ships will start next month. The Hazira shipyard will focus on construction of commercial vessels and warships for the Navy as well as the Coast Guard. Further expansion programmes envisage installation of ship lifting system for new construction, repairs and refit of ships including defence and paramilitary vessels. The company has made a foray in the dredging business by acquiring a majority stake in International Seaport Dredging Pvt Ltd, promoted by Belgian dredging multinational, Dredging International NV. L&T has acquired 61 per cent stake in Dredging International, headquartered at New Delhi. Naik said the acquisition is in line with the company’s strategy to strengthen its position in ports and harbours. “L&T wants to be a complete port and harbour operator with presence in terminal construction, dredging, marine installation and ship building,” he added.

 

[aaaditya]

hey guys here is an interesting news article:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-1641568,curpg-2.cms


The Navy, of course, wants to induct the carrier, renamed INS Vikramaditya, as scheduled in end-2008. The 16 MiG-29Ks, in turn, as per the Rs 6,900-crore package deal signed with Russia in January 2004, are slated for delivery from mid-2007.

Admiral Prakash will also discuss with the Russian leadership the procurement of three more Talwar-class "stealth" frigates, which are to be inducted within the next five years at a cost of over Rs 1,000-crore each. This contract now only awaits the formal Cabinet Committee on Security approval, as reported earlier by TOI.

These new 4,000-tonne lethal frigates will also be armed with the 300-km BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles - unlike the first three, INS Talwar, INS Trishul and INS Tabar, inducted in 2003-2004.

Another project on the agenda will be India's plan to procure eight long-range maritime patrol aircraft to bolster the Navy's snooping capabilities. Russian IL-38s, which the Navy already operates, are jostling with the American P-3C Orions to bag this contract.

Incidentally, the Navy is also awaiting the return of two upgraded IL-38s - fitted with "Sea Dragon mission suites" to augment their independent capability to detect and track hostile aircraft, ships and submarines - from Russia. Russia had sent back the first such IL-38SD plane to India some months ago.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Russian IL-38s, which the Navy already operates, are jostling with the American P-3C Orions to bag this contract.

Incidentally, the Navy is also awaiting the return of two upgraded IL-38s - fitted with "Sea Dragon mission suites" to augment their independent capability to detect and track hostile aircraft, ships and submarines - from Russia. Russia had sent back the first such IL-38SD plane to India some months ago.

I can't believe they are still pushing the IL-38 barrow. Indian AF personnel were in australia in 2001 complaining about the russians trying to flog off older non supportable airplanes and with electronic suites that were inferior to french stuff more readily available and supportable. Hell, even the Russians are struggling to support their IL-38's - its why theyr'e so keen to flog them off so that they smarten up their own redundant platform lines. We managed to get a look at various IL-38 systems at their request - and I'd have to say that if was not an awe inspiring event.

why would you even consider staying with an airframe that is unsupported - and with a sensor suite that still has some problems. Its not as if ASW technologies are greenfield. Far better for India to French, UK or US ASW systems where capability is not in question.

 

[aaaditya]

russians have recently set up a company in india for the supply of spares,services and technology to india for its russian made weapons.

however india still wants to acquire russia asw aeroplanes to fill up the gap caused by the loss of the 2 il38's as well as the increased force strength necessiated by the increasing responsibility of the eez.

these aircrafts will be temporary solution till the maritime reconnaisance aircraft competition for both the navy and coast guard is completed .

 

[zoolander]

why is the indian navy looking to russia for asw planes. They have money, why dont they look to the united states or some western nation to buy more better and more advanced goods.

 

[aaaditya]

why is the indian navy looking to russia for asw planes. They have money, why dont they look to the united states or some western nation to buy more better and more advanced goods.

india needs russian planes as temporary options,they are currentlu carrying out a competition for choosing a mra (the best one to meet the indian options) and most probably either boeing p8mma or the airbus a319 will be the preferred option,however these will be available only after another 7-10 years later. and till then indian navy wants to maintain its force levels.

also you must understand that usa is a highly unreliable supplier ,and hence i believe indian should go for the a319.

during the kargil war usa refused to supply india the critically needed spares for the sea king anti submarine warfare helicopters ,grounding the entire fleet.stung by this ,india is more carefull with the us technology,when they purchased the hawk trainers all the american components were replaced with the british ones,it was a bit more expensive but definitely worth it.

 

[aaaditya]

hey guys does anyone have any idea about any indigenous air defence systems developed by india ,good enough to replace the russian made gun cum missile systems on the 3 krivack class of stealth frigates to be acquired from russia(maybe a combo of indigenously upgraded bofors l70gun and the israeli barak missile) or the oerlikon contraves 35mm gun,israeli barak missile combination.

here is another article which mentions about this system:

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2006/20060617/nation.htm


Cabinet to decide on new stealth frigates
Tribune News Service
Mumbai, June 16
The proposal to purchase three Talwar class stealth frigates from Russia has been sent to the Cabinet.
According to naval sources, the top brass have completed price negotiations on the purchase of the frigates and a final decision will be taken by the Cabinet Committee on Security.
India is to spend Rs 3,000 crore on the frigates which will have the new BrahMos missile installed on them. Three Talwar class frigates, which are a modified version of the Krivak III class frigates of Russia, are in service with the Navy. These were inducted in 2003 and 2004. The sources said the new Talwar class frigates would have a larger degree of indigenisation than the earlier ships. Apart from local components, the frigates would have an air defense system designed by Indian engineers.

 

[zoolander]

Compared to western nations, what aspects of Russian naval techlogy is still better than western nations. I know their naval missiles are still far better but i am pretty unsure about everything else. Can someone explain what russia still has a advantage in and if they sell those things.

 

[Big-E]

Compared to western nations, what aspects of Russian naval techlogy is still better than western nations. I know their naval missiles are still far better but i am pretty unsure about everything else. Can someone explain what russia still has a advantage in and if they sell those things.

Do you mind telling me why you want to make this into a pissing contest?

 

[contedicavour]

It is true that India is the only major Navy insisting on blending together armament from so many several sources : Russia, Israel (Barak SAMs), Europe (French submarines, Italian ASW and command technology, German submarines...), now even the US (P-3s, potentially even F-18).

It may make sense not having to rely on only one source, in case of sanctions. It may also make sense to keep up competition to obtain lower prices and more significant offsets such as local production of part of the weaponry.

Still, I am amazed how much complication India is generating by operating ships with so many different systems. Take the Godavaris for example : mix of Russian and Western radars, Italian ASW, Russian and Israeli missiles... this only makes the ships more expensive, harder to operate and maintain.

cheers

 

[Big-E]

Still, I am amazed how much complication India is generating by operating ships with so many different systems. Take the Godavaris for example : mix of Russian and Western radars, Italian ASW, Russian and Israeli missiles... this only makes the ships more expensive, harder to operate and maintain.

cheers

Exactly, they have integrated so many different nationalities into their equipment they are the "melting-pot" of foreign technologies. I'm afraid there stopgap solution for filling in foriegn equipment until they start domestic technologies is going to hurt them in the long run. They need to stick with one supplier.

 

[n21]

Exactly, they have integrated so many different nationalities into their equipment they are the "melting-pot" of foreign technologies. I'm afraid there stopgap solution for filling in foriegn equipment until they start domestic technologies is going to hurt them in the long run. They need to stick with one supplier.

The foremost explaination would be the "over-simplied logic" of getting what best u can with the budget you have. Probably this has to do with a lot other factors also.

For example buying a western warship would be very expensive. So u either u build at home or buy a russian cheaper one. The systems on board are much more important than a warship,however if u get a russian system,which would be eventally sold to china ..in the end what have u got? .

Also it would be less expensive to get partial systems like ASW or radar from a western source,which u know would be better than a russian one and would give u that edge.Moreover the local designers would a better reference in case they have to develop one.That's my thinking.

This "melting pot" concept is spreading in all the three arms of the Indian Defence forces.SU-30 for the ariforce,Arjun(not a very good "sucessful" example) for the army.

But i should say I am amazed how they manage to integrated and operates different systems from different sources!

 

[aaaditya]

hey guys according to this latets news article ,seems that it is going to be the nerpa for the indian navy with love from russia.

here check out this link:

http://www.hindu.com/2006/07/01/stories/2006070118091800.htm

The Nerpa nuclear submarine was launched at the Amur shipyard




MOSCOW: A nuclear-powered submarine that will reportedly be leased to India was launched at a shipyard in the Russian Far East, a news agency report said.
The Nerpa nuclear submarine was launched at the Amur shipyard and will join Russia's Pacific Fleet in 2007 after undergoing sea trials, the RIA Novosti news agency quoted Vice-Admiral Anatoly Shlemov on Friday.
However, earlier reports said the Nerpa submarine was to be leased for 10 years to India under a 2004 secret deal. Indian and Russian officials have denied the reports.
Nerpa is the Project 971 third-generation submarine (NATO code name Akula-II), the most advanced Russian nuclear attack submarine. The Russian Navy's Akula-II submarines are equipped with 28 nuclear-capable cruise missiles with a striking range of 3,000 km. The Indian version is expected to be armed with the 300-km Club nuclear-capable missiles. Russia test-fired a ballistic missile Friday. The RSM-54 missile (Skiff SSN-23 in NATO codification), launched from the Tula nuclear submarine in the Barents Sea, hit a target on the Kura test range some 3,000 miles away, in the Kamchatka peninsula in Russia's far east, defence officials said.

 

[aaaditya]

hey guys check out this news article which provides quite some usefull information on the indian auv project which is in advanced stage of development. this vehicle in its current prototype form weighs 350kgs,can operate to a depth of 150 metres at a speed of 4-5 kts and has an endurance of 5 hours,is pre-programmable and hence does not require a cable for manouvering and is capable of burst transmission of the collected data.

this vessel is to be used for mine clearance,mine field mapping,underwater surveillance etc.

here check out this link:

http://cities.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=190700


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Kolkata, June 30:[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]IIT-Kharagpur has developed India’s first autonomous underwater vehicle (AUV), which can bring back deep-sea images, read oceanographic data, collect water samples and perform military surveillance like pin-pointing sea mines planted by enemies. The wireless, intelligent vehicle (see photo) is fitted with a computer and can manoeuvre on its own upto 150 metres under sea for at least five hours. Unlike a remote-operated vehicle (ROV), which has to be guided by a surface platform, this vehicle is pre-programmed before it is released under sea to carry out specific tasks.
[/FONT]
Prof. Debabrata Sen of IIT-Kharagpur’s Department of Ocean Engineering and Naval Architecture is spearheading the Rs 7-crore project, commissioned by the Union Ministry of Ocean Development in 2003. The department is working on this project in collaboration with the institute’s Department of Mechanical Engineering and Electronics.

“The design for AUV is complete,” Prof Sen said. “The vehicle is now being assembled by CMERI, Durgapur. In Asia, only Japan possesses this technology but it is frightfully expensive to import. India just needs an indigenous AUV.”
Cylindrical in shape, AUV is 4.5 metres long, half a meter wide and weighs 350 kg, he said. “It is also fitted with an acoustic modem that can send back a burst of signals occasionally. The speed capacity is two to four knots and AUV runs on a special battery.”
According to Sen, AUV will be useful in national crises like, say, an oil spill or a tsunami. “Since AUV requires no cable to manoeuvre it under water, the mother ship can just launch the vehicle and disappear from the disaster spot.” IIT-Kharagpur director Prof S K Dube said the AUV will strengthen India’s position strategically: “It will help us understand ocean and map it more accurately.”

 

[contedicavour]

hey guys according to this latets news article ,seems that it is going to be the nerpa for the indian navy with love from russia.

here check out this link:

http://www.hindu.com/2006/07/01/stories/2006070118091800.htm

The Nerpa nuclear submarine was launched at the Amur shipyard




MOSCOW: A nuclear-powered submarine that will reportedly be leased to India was launched at a shipyard in the Russian Far East, a news agency report said.
The Nerpa nuclear submarine was launched at the Amur shipyard and will join Russia's Pacific Fleet in 2007 after undergoing sea trials, the RIA Novosti news agency quoted Vice-Admiral Anatoly Shlemov on Friday.
However, earlier reports said the Nerpa submarine was to be leased for 10 years to India under a 2004 secret deal. Indian and Russian officials have denied the reports.
Nerpa is the Project 971 third-generation submarine (NATO code name Akula-II), the most advanced Russian nuclear attack submarine. The Russian Navy's Akula-II submarines are equipped with 28 nuclear-capable cruise missiles with a striking range of 3,000 km. The Indian version is expected to be armed with the 300-km Club nuclear-capable missiles. Russia test-fired a ballistic missile Friday. The RSM-54 missile (Skiff SSN-23 in NATO codification), launched from the Tula nuclear submarine in the Barents Sea, hit a target on the Kura test range some 3,000 miles away, in the Kamchatka peninsula in Russia's far east, defence officials said.

What would Russia gain from such a long lease on a brand new SSN, especially if India plans on building its own SSNs locally anyway (though with some Russian design & technology) ?
If I were the Russians I would rather sell it entirely

cheers

 

[aaaditya]

What would Russia gain from such a long lease on a brand new SSN, especially if India plans on building its own SSNs locally anyway (though with some Russian design & technology) ?
If I were the Russians I would rather sell it entirely

cheers

about 300 million dollars per year or 3 billion dollars at the end of a 10 year period.

while india will gain a vital training platform for the crew of its indigenous nuclear submarines and important lessons derived from russian submarines to be incorporated into the indian submarines(it is a wonderfull chance for india to thoroughly analyse and gain from the russian submarine technology).

 

[Deeps_rock]

300 million dollars

about 300 million dollars per year or 3 billion dollars at the end of a 10 year period.

while india will gain a vital training platform for the crew of its indigenous nuclear submarines and important lessons derived from russian submarines to be incorporated into the indian submarines(it is a wonderfull chance for india to thoroughly analyse and gain from the russian submarine technology).

Dont u think 300 million is too much for a month.If we spend that much on indegenous research and development we will surely have some success..

 

[aaaditya]

Dont u think 300 million is too much for a month.If we spend that much on indegenous research and development we will surely have some success..

it is 300 million dollars per year,honestly your mathematical abilities are disgusting.

by the way you should view this as a defence research spending,since india can get access to cutting edge technology ,which not many countries have ,they can improve their knowledge and design abilities with respect to nuclear submarine,it will be very usefull for the indigenous atv project.

the crew can get trained for the operation of the indigenous atv(which is claimed to be based on the russian design).

the russian submarine would also perform its intended combat role ,should any hostilities occur).

 

[contedicavour]

about 300 million dollars per year or 3 billion dollars at the end of a 10 year period.

while india will gain a vital training platform for the crew of its indigenous nuclear submarines and important lessons derived from russian submarines to be incorporated into the indian submarines(it is a wonderfull chance for india to thoroughly analyse and gain from the russian submarine technology).

Ok one may say Russia needs 3 bn USD over 10 years to revamp its defence industries. Though it could have tried to sell the new Akula for its market value of 2.0 bn approx (depending on the weaponry) USD paid for upfront, with a strong chance of selling more afterwards, or, at worst (for them of course), of building more in Indian shipyards under licence.
Instead, the Indian Navy will (as you say) learn a lot and eventually build its own version of the Akula without more than technical support from Russia (who will earn a lot less than from a real licence).
Congratulations to India for a good deal, very unsure Russia did a good deal

cheers

 

[aaaditya]

Ok one may say Russia needs 3 bn USD over 10 years to revamp its defence industries. Though it could have tried to sell the new Akula for its market value of 2.0 bn approx (depending on the weaponry) USD paid for upfront, with a strong chance of selling more afterwards, or, at worst (for them of course), of building more in Indian shipyards under licence.
Instead, the Indian Navy will (as you say) learn a lot and eventually build its own version of the Akula without more than technical support from Russia (who will earn a lot less than from a real licence).
Congratulations to India for a good deal, very unsure Russia did a good deal

cheers

i dont think you are permitted to sell nuclear submarines to a country,atleast not with a nuclear reactor.