Indian Missiles & Nuclear Development News and Discussions

[ajay_ijn]

Re: Indian Missile Development and News

Ajay can you tell me its range by the way Pakistan is trying to buy FT-2000 its range will be 200km i guee but i will confirm the better idea to knock down planes will be a lot of ground launched AAMRAAM's

Its 100km.
And by the way FT-2000 has a range of 100km not 200.
Not much is known is about this system right.
FT-2000 can kill AWACS and EW Aircraft but can it counter decoys and standofff Missiles.
The big question is,will it be suceessful against India Phalcon.
I think air launched decoys could be sucessful againt FT-2000.

 

[kashifshahzad]

Re: Indian Missile Development and News

HQ-9 / FT-2000

The the [yet-to-be-deployed] HQ-9 is a program to develop a new long-range surface-to-air missile (SAM). The HQ-9 development effort may be based on a Chinese-designed missile motor, search and guidance hardware based on the Russian S-300PMU, and guidance technology from the American Patriot. China purchased four to six S-300PMU batteries (48 to 72 missiles) in 1991 and purchased an additional 120 missiles in 1994. In 1993 it was alleged that Israel had transferred a Patriot missile or missile technology to China, though Israel denied the charges. In 1997 the US Office of Naval Intelligence suggested that "technology from advanced Western systems may be incorporated into the HQ-9." A naval version of HQ-9 could be installed on the Luhai-class destroyers if the HQ-9 enters service. However, China is said to have encountered difficulties with the associated radar system, and it is unclear whether the PLA is currently funding this program.

The FT-2000 surface-to-air anti-radiation missile is the first large surface-to-air anti-radiation missile in the world. It is said to be based on a marriage of the SA-10 and the US Patriot track-via-missile seeker. While the association of the HQ-9 and the FT-2000 remains unclear, the two programs appear to share remarkably similar development histories, and the FT-2000 capabilities are consistent with the employment of the HQ-9 missile without the evidently problematic tracking radar. Its broadband passive radar target seeker can detect the electromagnetic emmanations from the adversary early warning and electronic jamming planes and shoot them down by tracing signals. Since the missile has a passive homing system which does not transmit electromagnetic waves, the possibility of being discovered by the enemy is greatly minimized. Its 12-100 kilometer slant range also ensures that it can strike at long range. The FT-2000 has become the focus of attention in Taiwan, given the concern that this missile will pose a serious threat to Taiwan's US-made E-2T early warning planes.

The missile associated with the FT-2000 is probably similar to the HQ-9 in size but may be somewhat slower. Its maximum range reportedly is about 100 km, with a maximum altitude of approximately 20 km. A complete FT-2000 battalion probably would consist of a command platoon and three batteries. Sales brochure acquired at Farnborough dubbed the FT-2000 an "AWACS killer." The FT-2000 could be deployed as a stand-alone air defense system or deployed as part of another system. Although Beijing has stated publicly that the FT-2000 will be available for foreign export around the year 2001, it is more likely that it will not be available until the second half of the decade. If a foreign customer cannot be found, development could take longer or not occur at all.

Specifications

Contractor
Entered Service
Total length 6.8 m
Diameter 0.47 m
Wingspan
Weight 1300 kg
Warhead Weight
Propulsion Solid rocket booster
Maximum Speed
Operating altitude 3 - 20 km
Operating range 12 - 100 km
Guidance mode Passive Radar Homing
Single-shot hit probability

Pakistan already has SA-2 ,Mistral,cortale other then the shoulder launched SAM's but they are very old only Pakistan is maintaining them i have heard that SA-2 is totaly maintained by PAF personals they has to continue maintaining them as far as they dont get alternatives for that then there will be a long process the cources training ......

 

[chaoticsensatio]

Re: Indian Missile Development and News

In addition to FT-2000 , its variants are being focused on to have counter counter measures capabilities. also ft-2000 is equiped with standoff jamming and home-on-jam abilities and it only switch to active radar mod when its only 5km away from the target travelling with a speed of 1200 m/s thus giving less then five seconds to react for its victim. therefore scoring a tested and evaluated kill accuracy of 0.95. just be consisdering the factors I think Ft-2000 is a definite threat to Phalcon.

 

[aaaditya]

Re: Indian Missile Development and News

first of all guys i dont think

1)phalcon will go within 100 kms of ft2000 which would in most likely hood be deployed inside enemy terriotery.

2)i beleive phalcon has a detecting range of 350-400kms against aircrafts so even if it is about 100 kms inside indian terriotery it will be able to detect combat aircrafts inside enemy terriotery.

3)being quite expensive phalcon would be considered as a prime asset by the iaf which will equip it with the best possible ecm/eccm solutions.

4)phalcon will be escorted by iaf jets which may be equipped with kh32 missile(range 120-160 kms),this missile has around m4 speed and can even attack and destroy radars which have been shut off.so a ft2000 missile fired unnaccesarily over an out of the range phalcon will give away the pakistani rdar posistion,bringing it into attack,forcing them to shut down or run this will effect the initial guidance of the ft-2000 missile which will not be able to activate its terminal guidance unless it gets withing 5kms of its target.
5)the best way to shoot down aphalcon would be to use a mass of high performance fighters equipped with very long range missile.(russia is developing an air to air missile known as ks172 having a range of 400kms,it has been reported that india may also get involved in this project),such a missile would be an effective deterrent.
6)the ft-2000 will be very usefull if the phalcon enters into pakistan or chinese airspace or for intercepting indian ballistic missiles.:coffee

 

[aaaditya]

Re: Indian Missile Development and News

well read this article particularly the last three lines:

AERO INDIA 2005 –– BVRAAMs FOR IAF
An IDC Analysis

(With inputs by Sayan Majumdar)


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<FONT face=Arial>New Delhi, 10 February 2005 <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><FONT size=2><SPAN lang=EN-US style="mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">

 

[aaaditya]

Re: Indian Missile Development and News

:coffee well sorry somehow the full article was not posted will post it here.

AERO INDIA 2005 –– BVRAAMs FOR IAF​

An IDC Analysis

well sice iam not being able to post the article here iam giving the link

http://indiadefence.com/Bvraams.htm

http://indiadefence.com/

http://indiadefence.com/collab.htm (this article contains information on the ks172 novator missile).

:coffee

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​

​

 

[ajay_ijn]

Re: Indian Missile Development and News

In addition to FT-2000 , its variants are being focused on to have counter counter measures capabilities. also ft-2000 is equiped with standoff jamming and home-on-jam abilities and it only switch to active radar mod when its only 5km away from the target travelling with a speed of 1200 m/s thus giving less then five seconds to react for its victim. therefore scoring a tested and evaluated kill accuracy of 0.95. just be consisdering the factors I think Ft-2000 is a definite threat to Phalcon.

No way,u have grossly underestimated phalcon.
First as aditya said,Phalcon doesn't need to enter pak air space for its operations,So Phalcon can be safe in india.

6)the ft-2000 will be very usefull if the phalcon enters into pakistan or chinese airspace or for intercepting indian ballistic missiles

Even if it is paks air space,It must be in less than 100km range for FT-2000 to shoot it down.
With the help of Comint and Elint, FT-2000 Sites can be detected,then Phalcon will msake sure that it is far away from FT-2000 Site.

The thing is if FT-2000 Has Radar swtiched on then Phalcon can pinpoint the position of the Radar from many hundreds of miles far away using its ELINT system.
If FT-2000 Control center is trying to have a Radio Communication with other command centers even then Phalcon can detect the exact position of Control center using its COMINT system

Another alternative as aditya said IAF can use Anti-Radar Missiles like Kh-31 (range:180km)to destroy FT-2000 Sytstem Radars.
Last Alternative will be to use Brahmos(range:290km) as a Standoff Missile to destroy the FT-2000 launched from Su-30MKI.

I think it very difficult or next to impossible for pakistan to kill Phalcon.
Forget about Phalcon threat,they have to first deal with Su-30MKI which itself can act as a mini awacs.

 

[ajay_ijn]

Re: Indian Missile Development and News

:coffee well sorry somehow the full article was not posted will post it here.

AERO INDIA 2005 –– BVRAAMs FOR IAF​

An IDC Analysis

well sice iam not being able to post the article here iam giving the link

http://indiadefence.com/Bvraams.htm

http://indiadefence.com/

http://indiadefence.com/collab.htm (this article contains information on the ks172 novator missile).

It is senseless for India to join the development of KS-172 missile.
We don't need any kind of ultra long range missile.
There is not threat for us to join the development of such kind os missile.
A 100km BVRAAM is enough to satisfy our needs.

 

[vicky007]

Re: Indian Missile Development and News

Technical Details about the AKASH SAM.

For those who are interested:-

http://akashsam.com/images/single-page.pdf

 

[adsH]

Re: Indian Missile Development and News

Even if it is paks air space,It must be in less than 100km range for FT-2000 to shoot it down.
With the help of Comint and Elint, FT-2000 Sites can be detected,then Phalcon will msake sure that it is far away from FT-2000 Site.

The thing is if FT-2000 Has Radar swtiched on then Phalcon can pinpoint the position of the Radar from many hundreds of miles far away using its ELINT system.
If FT-2000 Control center is trying to have a Radio Communication with other command centers even then Phalcon can detect the exact position of Control center using its COMINT system

awacs.

The FT-2000 Site will not necessarily have a Designated Radar Site. If PAF goes for the Eyrie and the new TPS radar systems which have been procured. these can be be enough to actually detect Airborne Assets. So finding where the FT-2000 are housed would be imperative so you can Take them out before they are used. Newer C4i Technology allows Seamless Communication between different Air defense Assets.

Just like you can't underestimate the capabilities of the Phalcon to defend its self (Seduce, Constrict dazzle or even send out False signatures) from threats like these. you will have to appreciate the Construction and the capabilities of the FT-2000. Every AWAC is vulnerable to Air-defense system the Russians call it REC theory. part of there theory is to Physically Destroy C&C assets in-order to neutralize or limit the Enemy C&C and Intelligence Threat.

If FT-2000 Control center is trying to have a Radio Communication with other command centers even then Phalcon can detect the exact position of Control center using its COMINT system

Your Assuming too much Yes the Phalcon is a very capable system allot of the AEW&C are. But in-order to access site to site transmissions you need access to the Medium its being transmited on. You need physical access ie if the FT is based in several locations they can be connected through Fiber Optics then you wouldn't be able to access the Data transmission through Air. If the transmission is on UHF/VHF frequencies or the newer technology UMTS then you need to break the Encryption which is not a trivial task to say the least as most Encryption Key are Lengthy and sophisticated they are changed and are rarely the same from one day or Hour to the another.

 

[highsea]

Re: Indian Missile Development and News

I think we are wandering a bit here, folks. Let's stick to Indian Missiles and news, not Phalcon and FT2000.

 

[ajay_ijn]

Re: Indian Missile Development and News

ok i wont talk about AWACS.
The akash PDF File looks gr8.
But for god sake when would it be inducted???
Akash was to inducted in mid 1990's itself.

 

[aaaditya]

Re: Indian Missile Development and News

well there were reports that the akash had completed it's final test flight successfully about two or three days back.:coffee

 

[pshamim]

Re: Indian Missile Development and News

well there were reports that the akash had completed it's final test flight successfully about two or three days back.:coffee

I am a bit puzzled. Can someone please answer the following questions:

1. why Akash was tested so many times within such a short time?
2. Why would India purchase PAC-3 from US when Akash is superior than Patriot according to the following Indian Press report:

'Akash' test-fired for third time in 5 days

Tuesday, 21 June , 2005, 14:43

Balasore: For the third time in five days, 'Akash', India's surface-to-air missile, was test fired from the Integrated Test Range (ITR) at Chandipur on Tuesday. Editor's Choice
Surface-to-air missile Akash test-fired

The multi-target missile with a striking range of 25 km, was test fired at around 1.00 pm. The missile was targeted at a para-barrel target to test its consistency, the sources said.

The sleek 5.6. meter long missile, which was test fired on Friday last and on Monday, is one of the five missiles being developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).

The missile, which is said to have better features than its US counterpart 'Patriot', has a launch weight of 700 kg and can carry a payload of 60 kg.

The trial was conducted to demonstrate its consistency during the entire flight for the army and air force, which are likely to deploy the missile, the sources said.

The sophisticated missile, which uses an integral ramjet rocket propulsion system and has low reaction time, operates in conjunction with the indigenously-built Rajendra Surveillance and Engagement Radar being developed by Electronic Research and Development Establishment (ERDE), Hyderabad.

http://sify.com/news/othernews/full...php?id=13877

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: Indian Missile Development and News

........Can someone please answer the following questions:

2. Why would India purchase PAC-3 from US when Akash is superior than Patriot according to the following Indian Press report:

At a guess I'd suggest that the newspaper is indulging in a bit of patriotic reporting (nothing abnormal with that - everyone does it)

Akash is based on the old Soviet Sa-6. There is only so much you can do to any older piece of legacy technology before it hits its limitations

On that basis I'd guess that India is probably looking at a staged and overlapped SAM/ABM capability.

The indigenous product will in all likelihood be used on the fringes of the intercept belt as "beta or charlie" belt layer. The PAC3 could then be installed as the alpha belt. It's more expensive and thus may be used as the last ditch responder.

Thats only an opinion of course.

 

[aaaditya]

Re: Indian Missile Development and News

well akash is a highly capable missile but one of its biggest drwbacks is that it has a range of just 25 kms (pac3 has a range of 150 kms),in its present configuration akash is purely a surface to air missile(though it can be upgraded to abm capabilities) ,india is expected to test a 150km range abm this year (i expect it to be based on akash design).:coffee

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: Indian Missile Development and News

well akash is a highly capable missile but one of its biggest drwbacks is that it has a range of just 25 kms (pac3 has a range of 150 kms),in its present configuration akash is purely a surface to air missile(though it can be upgraded to abm capabilities) ,india is expected to test a 150km range abm this year (i expect it to be based on akash design).:coffee

At 25km range, that more or less confirms that it will be used as a "point defence" system.

btw, you cannot convert a 25km missile to a 150km missile based on the Sa-6 architecture. It is just not physically possible without redesigning the missiles boosters completely. You're talking about quintuppling the range within the existing booster size.

To do that will change it completely and would mean that it could not be used on some of the existing launch platforms.

If India develops a 150km SAM I suspect that it will be a different base model altogether.

 

[highsea]

Re: Indian Missile Development and News

I think the plan has always been to integrate the Akash with the S-300, India and Russia signed agreements to the effect back in 1998. The Akash radar is based on the the 30N6 "Flap Lid".

Akash is based on the old Soviet Sa-6. There is only so much you can do to any older piece of legacy technology before it hits its limitations

Lol, I tried to explain this to someone in another forum, talk about denial...

 

[ajay_ijn]

Re: Indian Missile Development and News

btw, you cannot convert a 25km missile to a 150km missile based on the Sa-6 architecture. It is just not physically possible without redesigning the missiles boosters completely. You're talking about quintuppling the range within the existing booster size.

Not on a SA-6 Model gf but India is trying to improve it using PAC-3/S-300 which ever she buys.
What India wants is Long Range Missile Technology ( i mean greater than 100km).Either she will ask Russia to collaborate with the development of long range missile or US.
But for present Akash is an upgraded version of SA-6.

,india is expected to test a 150km range abm this year (i expect it to be based on akash design)

It is no where said that it is having an ABM capability, its just a long range SAM thats all.
I think it will take many years for us to make it operatonal.
Only joint development will make projects faster for India.

See Brahmos, it took only 8 years for this missile to be deployed from the start of the project (if it would be deployed on P-17).
Although the missile is based on yakhont but still completing a project and also inducting in 8 years is just like a dream come true for india.

Akash production was expected to begin in 2000 as the first test was conducted in 1990 but till now it is not inducted.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Re: Indian Missile Development and News

Not on a SA-6 Model gf but India is trying to improve it using PAC-3/S-300 which ever she buys.

but, what you apparently haven't understood from the way you've responded, is that you can't just add PAC3 or S300 technology onto the Sa6 or Akash to make it go to 150km.

That will require a different booster and hence will be a different missile.