Indian Army seeks next generation battle tank

[Titanium]

Well efforts to develop arjun has given a tremendous experience to DRDO

Hope so

and this experience is not going to be wiped off and will give help to DRDO to develop future MBTs and also DRDO is not a failure,

DRDO is not failure, but attempted MBT is failure. Agree?

they are very mature in developing other weapon systems(missiles and nukes),

The thing about Missile and Nuke development is the secrecy surrounding it...and lack of altenates make them seem sucess by default.

so this organisation is necessary for acheiving Indiaz goal of self sufficiency.

That was the aim from last 30+ years and counting..

People who are passimistic like you are never going to be successful.:vamp

What is this? cursing!....

 

[thefox]

why don't u buy abrahim's till arjun gets completed.
they are the best in the world right now,and good luck with ur projects.

 

[indian bull]

NO,the fact that army is not ready for arjun doesn't mean that the whole MBT programme is failure. The mid level technology also includes t-90s(t-72s are even poor than this middle class)

Thats how we may loose more alternatives in future coz russia is moving away from us and israel is not ready to become an alternate source and US is highly unpredictable.



Efforts are continous to acheive selsufficiency.


Be optimistic and appreciate people who doing work hard for their nation, something is better than nothing.:lul

 

[swerve]

why don't u buy abrahim's till arjun gets completed.
they are the best in the world right now,and good luck with ur projects.

I presume you mean the M1 Abrams. Whatever, a higher level of discourse would be appreciated. Would you like to be more specific about the features of the M1 which make it suitable for India? It's probably a good idea if you also point out any drawbacks, & state why you believe the advantages outweigh them.

 

[funtz]

there is so much talk of Arjun here, it seems like this is a Arjun thread, there is already a arjun thread, what is the need of this thread then?

As for the next generation of whatever tank, can anyone say that it is needed before 2020-2025, so what is the need of this thread, to talk about things that will happen 13-18 years in the future?

Might as well debate what will be the military needs that far into future.

 

[thefox]

well i wrote down a list and got logged.
ok well u see india and pakistan are gonna use their tanks in the western and eastern sectors respectively.which happens mostly to be desert. soo their tanks are most probably to meet each other in desert.now to find a tank which can serve the purpose.
abrams have fought in deserts [gulf war] and proved their metal.they can locate and fire much befor seen in open deserts.they have mutiple layers of various alloys of steel,ceramic,ETC which gives them very high protection against chemical as well as kinetic energy penetrators.
weight around 61.4 tons but that ain't any problem as they are highly mobile and have proved it allready.

rounds like M829A2 were developed specifically to address the threats posed by a T-90 or T-80U tank,i guess pak has t-80u.shaped charge rounds such as the M830, the latest version of which (M830A1) incorporates a sophisticated multi-mode electronic sensing fuse and more fragmentation which allows it to be used effectively against armored vehicles, personnel, and low-flying aircraft.
now you may think that its powered by gas turbine,which may cause troble in the desert but as i said it has allready seen operation inthe desert,so that should not be a concern anymore for anyone.
yes i like leclerc too but it has still to prove itself in actual war and as i said the tank we r looking for is a desert tank.
in anycase its just my openion.
respect others and they will respect you

 

[funtz]

That is a huge debate in itself,
what is the nature of this desert battlefield that is talked about above and how similar it is to the places 'abrams' have performed in? Anything that you saw of the description of this battlefield with respect to armor? What happens if the opposing forces adapt and acquire a similar tank, do we say acquire or build even bigger tanks?

 

[Rossiman]

why don't u buy abrahim's till arjun gets completed.
they are the best in the world right now,and good luck with ur projects.

First off, the Abrams isn't the BEST tank in the world. I don't want to get into what is. Also you need to correct your grammar.

There are certain things about a tank that can make it, or break it.
The M1A2 SEP/TUSK Abrams is a great tank. The problem with the Abrams is, it is a major gas hog. It uses more fuel than most tanks.

The Abrams gets about 275 miles on a tank, thats 0.6 miles a gallon on a 498 gallon tank. Definitely isn't the best, but then again you are pushing 69.5 tons.... HA

The LeClerc gets 345 miles to a tank, and 425-450 with External fuel tanks.

The second thing is, the engine is under armored. This is the SECOND most important part of a tank, besides it's crews. And the Engine should be the best protected/after its crew of course.

While the Abrams would be a reasonable choice for India, i highly doubt it will happen. They will either buy more T-90's or Arjuns. Better yet design a new tank like they said, once again.....

 

[thefox]

hey people i am not saying abrams are the best what i am saying in my opinion they are the best.i may be wrong correct me thats what i am here for.i respect ur opinions/view's and want the same for mine.

now some things against abrams can be that, since we all know M1A2being primarily designed for the NATO theatre of war - is too bulky and unsuitable for operation in the Indo-Pak environment. here try to understand what i mean by saying environment{it includes a lot of things involved in war}They are heavy on fuel, and pose serious logistic problems in transportation within india. Besides, the exorbitant capital, operational and life-cycle costs of abrams tanks is another issue.
now if you have enough money and you want the best not the second best,the choice is simple.
one more thing you said what if pakistan buyed much heavier machines,can they.be logical.whats their defence budget.they won't buy anything atleast for the time being so secure your present first and then think about the future.
respect others and they will respect you

 

[indian bull]

Well this is a good suggestion to buy more costly, more heavy and more fuel consuming and more underpowered great Abrams and create a mess here in India.

 

[samridhi]

Privatisation Defence research is nessessary

Hi ,

I just wanted to say how much is privatization is nessessary in development of world class products.

 

[swerve]

...
The Abrams gets about 275 miles on a tank, thats 0.6 miles a gallon on a 498 gallon tank. Definitely isn't the best, but then again you are pushing 69.5 tons.... HA .....

Are you sure you're comparing like with like? IIRC that 69.5 tons is US tons, aka short tons, i.e. 2000 lbs/907 kg per ton. Leclerc, Leopard 2 etc are measured in metric tonnes, aka tonnes, i.e. 1000 kg per ton. Imperial tons are 1016 kg, so close enough to metric tons not to matter in this context, & in any case, British AFV weights are given in metric measures nowadays.

If you compare an M1 (heaviest model) to a Leopard 2 (heaviest model) or Challenger 2, using the same units, you discover that there's surprisingly little difference in weight.

 

[Rossiman]

Are you sure you're comparing like with like? IIRC that 69.5 tons is US tons, aka short tons, i.e. 2000 lbs/907 kg per ton. Leclerc, Leopard 2 etc are measured in metric tonnes, aka tonnes, i.e. 1000 kg per ton. Imperial tons are 1016 kg, so close enough to metric tons not to matter in this context, & in any case, British AFV weights are given in metric measures nowadays.

If you compare an M1 (heaviest model) to a Leopard 2 (heaviest model) or Challenger 2, using the same units, you discover that there's surprisingly little difference in weight.

Ok, you lost me. I am talking about gas tanks , not the weight of the tank. The French LeClerc gets around 50-75 gallons more on a tank, thats a huge difference.
I suck at metric conversions lol.

 

[Titanium]

NEW DELHI — India plans to design another main battle tank for future Army requirements, its second such attempt after a 30-year effort to develop the Arjun, which failed to meet requirements.

The state-owned Combat Vehicles Research and Development Establishment (CVRDE) has initiated the design and development of the Futuristic Main Battle Tank (FMBT), intended to fulfill the original role of the Arjun and replace aging Russian T-72 tanks, a senior CVRDE scientist said.

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=3196879&C=america

 

[Space]

We just need nukes and messiles

Why we need tanks and Army,
We just need nuclear weapons and the missiles to carry them.
That is enough,
We no more need anything else

Just drop a nuke if anybody threatens you.

So stop talking about other defense systems. Do we really need anything else?

 

[Stimpy75]

ever heard of: who shoots first,dies as second?
there are many other things to say about why we need an army and tanks,i.e. conventionall forces.....but don´t want to tell you that...:nutkick
back on topic: did the Indian Army ever thought of equipping their tanks with the turret of the Black Eagle or to produce it in licence? here is a link to it,but it´s in german
http://www.kotsch88.de/vttv2005-s2.htm#TransportLadeContainer

 

[Titanium]

ever heard of: who shoots first,dies as second?
there are many other things to say about why we need an army and tanks,i.e. conventionall forces.....but don´t want to tell you that...:nutkick
back on topic: did the Indian Army ever thought of equipping their tanks with the turret of the Black Eagle or to produce it in licence? here is a link to it,but it´s in german
http://www.kotsch88.de/vttv2005-s2.htm#TransportLadeContainer

That is after DRDO is done its experiament for another 2 decade on FMBT, they will surely buy with Technology transfer.

 

[funtz]

No need to buy fancy tanks or build super duper armor, its not like the Indian Army has to face anything that big and scary around the subcontinent, its better to just push in whatever they make in 5 years and claim that to be the best tank in the world.
They need to concentrate on propoganda, it is way more important.

The next 2 decades look good on the ground private players are moving in, the numbers will always be there to support them (of tanks), joint ventures it seems are the in thing, as for the DRDO, the old beast should change by then. I think FMBT project will not be that tough.

 

[Space]

No need of tanks

What india needs is lots of weapons of mass distruction like nuclear devices and also new biological weapons.
Henceforth the there will not be conventional war where we need tanks , guns etc.
We should have better weapons of mass distruction so that the first attack should end the enimy. And make the enimy contry a no mans land.
We should have upper hand on pakistan and china's space and cyber space.

Also we need good air striking ability.

Thats all. Think differently and develop new messiles , new nuclear bombs.
new biological weapons.
We can always start a hidden war with biological weapons like bird flue.

Admin: Text deleted. Please refer to the Forum Rules before posting any more responses.

For fighting against other nations keep weapons of mass distruction ready.
And keep in mind one day we are gonna die so do not afraid to use these weapons.

 

[funtz]

When you consider the volume of work that the Indian Armed forces have been engaged for the last decade and the work they are currently engaged in, that seems too far from reality.

The implications of using nuclear and or biological weapons in the neighborhood will most certainly include India, further more we have some responsibility as human beings towards other humans.

to the other stuff all that i can say is, grow up.