Indian Army seeks next generation battle tank

Titanium

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All i wish is that lot of hardwork and money will not get wasted and in future arjuns will make a come back with a lot of advancement and also drdo and armed forces will amalgmate and join hands right from the begining of the projects.
Yes the competency developed will be used to design a new lighter and High-tech tank. But it will not be Arjun Tank, as we know of, Arjun MBT will be just a history lesson of how not to embark on tank development.
 

n21

New Member
The groud pressure you are showing is due mostly coz the imported track is meant for 65 ton class tank. When this track is mated to 58 ton tank obviosly the result will be significantly in Arjun Tank favour, which is just incidental not designed.
What is the difference b/w a 58 ton track and a 65 ton track? How will 65 ton track help to reduce ground pressure?

And what is the problem in having a so called 65 ton track on a 58 ton tank?
 

indian bull

Banned Member
Am afraid, it will be new design..as the Army chief want a lighter, versatile and high tech.




This is in contrast to 58 ton heavy Arjun, which Gen Kapoor described a medium tech.

'What we have today is mid-level technology. What we need is a tank of international quality,' Indian Army chief Gen. Deepak Kapoor said Tuesday.

How much lighter can you make the same Arjun tank? one , two ton still it would not be what the Army wants.

So brace yourself for a new tank design with a new mytholigical warrior name.:p:
well according to u tanks must be lighter, then we should mount a barrel on maruti-800. HE he he----:nutkick
 

Titanium

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well according to u tanks must be lighter, then we should mount a barrel on maruti-800. HE he he----:nutkick
Man please don't get worked on me. It is not my opinion but that of Army Chief Gen. Kapoor. Read the wording...again:

Based on its experience in designing the Arjun MBTs, the DRDO was coming up with a lighter and more versatile version called Arjun MK-II which is expected to meet future needs, Army chief General Deepak Kapoor told an international seminar on Armoured Fighting Vehicles here
Perhaps you should direct your views at Gen Kapoor.

Again the Topic of this thread is to discuss the future Tank design, not the postmortem of Arjun tank, for whose discussion there are multiple thread available in this forum.
 
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funtz

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Man please don't get worked on me. It is not my opinion but that of Army Chief Gen. Kapoor. Read the wording...again:

Perhaps you should direct your views at Gen Kapoor.

Again the Topic of this thread is to discuss the future Tank design, not the postmortem of Arjun tank, for whose discussion there are multiple thread available in this forum.
The future must be what the Army wants.

I think they have some reason to give what ever they require, if its a 40 ton tank then that is what they should be provided with, i think if we can not trust the Army then the problem is much deeper.

It is not us who will decide how they behave in a war.

I for one do not really care that much about what the army wants, they might very well bring a 100 ton giant and if i am around i will start talking about the next project, just like i will talk about every election that happens around india over office tea/coffee/cig breaks :D

As for the repeated comments on the Chief of army staff speaking in a conference about combat Armored vehicles, it is a bit off, as he was being asked for his personal opinion at a 'conference;, his views do not necessarily give us an insight into the actual thinking of the organisation about the topic of this thread, the views might very well might change by the time a new generation of tank project starts.
And with this there is also the fact that this is a discussion on a discussion forum that we are participating in.
So, our views should matter to at least to us.
 
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Titanium

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The future must be what the Army wants.

I think they have some reason to give what ever they require, if its a 40 ton tank then that is what they should be provided with, i think if we can not trust the Army then the problem is much deeper.

It is not us who will decide how they behave in a war.
This is the one thing which was not being acknowledged till recently, both by DRDO and Ministry of defence. The less said the better of the DRDO Fans here.

It is ultimately the Army who knows what kind of weapons they want, based on the doctrine.
 

funtz

New Member
DRDO fan boys? Well its better than the absolute opposite (burn it, lose it), :D

The disagreements between the Army and MoD will continue as long as it is Armed Forces of India and not the India of Armed forces.
This is the limitation of a constitutional arrangement, more important factor is that the indigenous weapons manufacturing continues.

It's only now that the financial situation in the history of India as it is now is improving, organizations like DRDO, HAL will have to now make sure that the current interest in the defense sector by the private houses is appreciated.

Competing with well established industrial bases is naive, when you consider that for many projects no precedence existed. The MBT project has established a basic research and development structure however huge the criticisms of it may be, it was necessary none the less. Now the future stages of the MBT projects have a obvious advantage.
 

indian bull

Banned Member
What about Larsen and tourbo in defence research,http://www.tribuneindia.com/2007/20071121/biz.htm#1

L&T has a defense engineering division, which the company is planning to spin off into an independent subsidiary. Company officials say the subsidiary may then apply with the defense ministry for the Raksha Udyog Ratna status which would give it a number of privileges in the defence contract sector.
 

indian bull

Banned Member
Guys here is latest onArjun mk2
http://www.idrw.org/2007/11/13/army_okays_development_of_arjun_mark_ii_tanks.html
Army okays development of Arjun Mark II tanks


Author: idrw team | 13 November 2007 | Views: 225


BY : PTI






The army on Tuesday gave the go-ahead for developing next generation indigenous battle tanks after a successful run of the original model Arjun.

Based on its experience in designing the Arjun MBTs, the DRDO was coming up with a lighter and more versatile version called Arjun MK-II which is expected to meet future needs, Army chief General Deepak Kapoor told an international seminar on Armoured Fighting Vehicles here.

Defence scientists are also working on the Tank X project comprising features of Arjun and Russian-supplied T-72 tanks.

The function organised by the CII was presided over by Minister of State for Defence Rao Inderjit Singh, who asked Indian companies to invest and participate more in production of weapons systems.
 

Titanium

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Arjun is dead.... wait for new name

Guys here is latest onArjun mk2
http://www.idrw.org/2007/11/13/army_okays_development_of_arjun_mark_ii_tanks.html
Army okays development of Arjun Mark II tanks


Author: idrw team | 13 November 2007 | Views: 225


BY : PTI






The army on Tuesday gave the go-ahead for developing next generation indigenous battle tanks after a successful run of the original model Arjun.

Based on its experience in designing the Arjun MBTs, the DRDO was coming up with a lighter and more versatile version called Arjun MK-II which is expected to meet future needs, Army chief General Deepak Kapoor told an international seminar on Armoured Fighting Vehicles here.

Defence scientists are also working on the Tank X project comprising features of Arjun and Russian-supplied T-72 tanks.

The function organised by the CII was presided over by Minister of State for Defence Rao Inderjit Singh, who asked Indian companies to invest and participate more in production of weapons systems.
I have statrted this thread based on the news........ see that is listed in first page.

Anyway hope the DRDO would not commit the same harakari as with Arjun.
 

Titanium

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Arjun is Scrapped.... India to design FMBT

DefenseNews.com - India Tackles Second Tank Design Project - 11/26/07 17:19

NEW DELHI — India plans to design another main battle tank for future Army requirements, its second such attempt after a 30-year effort to develop the Arjun, which failed to meet requirements.

The state-owned Combat Vehicles Research and Development Establishment (CVRDE) has initiated the design and development of the Futuristic Main Battle Tank (FMBT), intended to fulfill the original role of the Arjun and replace aging Russian T-72 tanks, a senior CVRDE scientist said.
CVRDE is India’s only tank development agency, operating under the state-owned Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).

The DRDO will form a consortium to design and develop the FMBT. CRDRE has short-listed the Heavy Vehicles Factory, Avadi, as its development partner, and will also seek partnership with two unidentified private companies.
The CVRDE scientist said full development will begin in April. DRDO will fund 50 percent of the cost with the partners paying for the rest. Six prototypes will be developed in seven years, and bulk production is planned from 2020.

The FMBT will weigh 40 tons and feature a 125mm gun, the CVRDE scientist said. Advanced features will include the ability to fire kinetic weapons and missiles, an active protection system, and hybrid armor to defeat improvised explosive devices.

The tank will be able to fight at night and fulfill surveillance and reconnaissance roles. It will have a third-generation transmission system, integrated fire-control with laser finders, battlefield-management system and mine-detection system.

As I expected there will be new name, the new tank will be called Future main battle tank [FMBT] for now, on the lines of LCA, MCA, ...

After Arjun MBT, his half brother Karna i.e Tank-ex and still born Bhim to now FMBT!! Intersting to see if tank will be produced by 2020 after failure of two recent attempts.
 
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funtz

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I think deep down inside there is a hidden joke to be found in the article if one goes digging.

some 30 years ago.
1: we need tanks, 2: lets ask the Army. 3: Good, then a 40 ton 125 mm gun tank it will be, 4: hey its been some time now we want a heavier tank with 120 mm gun, 5: lets make a new tank from ground up, 6: darn it its taking too long lets just buy a new tank.

present day:
1. hey we need tanks, 2. lets ask the army, 3. Good, a 40 ton 125 mm tank it will be,....

so how they do it here in India
1-2 cha cha cha, 3-4 cha cha cha, come on now lets do it again

:eek:nfloorl:

I hope someone with more knowledge can make sense i give up (my taxed money).
 

indian bull

Banned Member
I think one day DRDO will be top weapons developor in the world, it has started from zero but has done things in a prertty less time as compared to others, JAI DRDO.:india
 

Rossiman

Banned Member
That's how India does stuff haha ;).
The Arjun is actually a good tank, its better than the T-72 and is par with the T-90. There are stuff i like about the T-90, and there is stuff i like about the Arjun. Does that mean lets go build a new tank? No....
Wouldn't it be cheap to buy lets say a M1A2 or a Leopard II, than to spend the crazy amounts of money funding, designing and then prototypes.
 

thefox

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i think t-90 is a good machine,the problem i see is the big silhoutte of arjun adding to the allready problem facing giant.
they need to reduce it or else improve the electronic systems.if they do both that will be better.they had some transport problems also i guess if i remember properly.
lets see what happens to this project.
 

funtz

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That's how India does stuff haha ;).
The Arjun is actually a good tank, its better than the T-72 and is par with the T-90. There are stuff i like about the T-90, and there is stuff i like about the Arjun. Does that mean lets go build a new tank? No....
Wouldn't it be cheap to buy lets say a M1A2 or a Leopard II, than to spend the crazy amounts of money funding, designing and then prototypes.

Well if the Army thinks that the Russians doctrine of tanks works for them, might as well keep on buying Russian tanks, afterall the whole point of indigenous manufacturing for India should be designing a tank that has been built for Indian conditions and Indian Army from the ground up, and do so with less money then other similar options,
The Russian tanks seem to fit with the army and they are not all that expensive.

I think with any project the most important thing is to face problems (which are always there) and come up with the solutions, hence acquiring the capability to do some creative work (original solutions that give you an edge). Hope its the same for the defense sector.

The requirement of 3000~5000 tanks by the army should be the driving force, which will never happen till the army takes one for the team.
 

Titanium

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I think one day DRDO will be top weapons developor in the world, it has started from zero but has done things in a prertty less time as compared to others, JAI DRDO.:india
No one here will deprive you of your dreams, but the reality is little, just a little different.

Just hope DRDO will soon unvail the design of 40 ton 125mm gun Tank.
 

funtz

New Member
No one here will deprive you of your dreams, but the reality is little, just a little different.

Just hope DRDO will soon unvail the design of 40 ton 125mm gun Tank.
Why make a 40 ton 125 mm gun tank, might as well buy more amazing T-90s? Any specific technology that you might think off which justify this?
 

Titanium

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Why make a 40 ton 125 mm gun tank, might as well buy more amazing T-90s? Any specific technology that you might think off which justify this?
Nothing except "Indeginous" technology.:) not to forget, to keep DRDO staff busy.
 

indian bull

Banned Member
No one here will deprive you of your dreams, but the reality is little, just a little different.

Just hope DRDO will soon unvail the design of 40 ton 125mm gun Tank.
Well efforts to develop arjun has given a tremendous experience to DRDO and this experience is not going to be wiped off and will give help to DRDO to develop future MBTs and also DRDO is not a failure, they are very mature in developing other weapon systems(missiles and nukes), so this organisation is necessary for acheiving Indiaz goal of self sufficiency. People who are passimistic like you are never going to be successful.:vamp
 
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