2nd Australian led Timor Leste intervention

[Supe]

@GF

A post of yours refers to discussions between DFAT and the Indonesians over the current situation in East Timor. May I ask what/who your sources are? I can't find anything on DFAT website. If it has been mentioned in the news, I have missed it.

DFAT had a meeting with their Indon counterparts last week. I assume that everything is huggy.

I'm confident that Indonesia has no designs on re-incorporating Timor Leste into Greater Indonesia. I base this 'assumption' on SBY being at the helm, political consequences of such an action and its ongoing problems in other parts of Indonesia. Howerver, I wonder if you or anyone else for that matter has heard to the contrary?

Also, could Indonesia gain advantage in stirring the pot through its proxies?

Edit: The Kiwis are on board and deploying to East Timor. With the increased tempo of their forces, voices for real increase in defence spending comensurate to the operations it's undertaking might finally be heard. Assuming the voices for a more pro-active defence budget within Kiwi political circles are there.

Here's a pic post from MP.net of the deployment:

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1677184&postcount=9

 

[gf0012-aust]

@GF

A post of yours refers to discussions between DFAT and the Indonesians over the current situation in East Timor. May I ask what/who your sources are? I can't find anything on DFAT website. If it has been mentioned in the news, I have missed it.

Downer mentioned it in an I/V done 48 hrs ago on Ch9

I'm confident that Indonesia has no designs on re-incorporating Timor Leste into Greater Indonesia. I base this 'assumption' on SBY being at the helm, political consequences of such an action and its ongoing problems in other parts of Indonesia. Howerver, I wonder if you or anyone else for that matter has heard to the contrary?

There are certainly some in the Indon Govt who see it as "I told you they weren't ready" situation. There are also some who still resent the fact that ET is a separate entity.

Also, could Indonesia gain advantage in stirring the pot through its proxies?

Not in their interest, as if we became machiavellian, we could make their life very hard in the other provinces who are also itching to break away.

Here's a pic post from MP.net of the deployment:

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1677184&postcount=9

Bloody atrocious, I hope someone in DMO is paying attention to the amount of NS gear thats being used as they don't have confidence in issued gear.

It's a dogs breakfast.

 

[merocaine]

This Is Off the Guardian Web Blogg
Interesting in light of events.

With the imminent arrival of 1,400 diggers in East Timor to join the 150 soldiers already in the country, Australia will briefly have more soldiers deployed in its backyard than in its controversial missions in Iraq and Afghanistan, writes David Fickling.

A few hundred miles to the east in the Solomon Islands, 400 troops were deployed after disputed prime ministerial elections last month resulted in riots and the looting of Chinese-run shops.

It's understandable at a time like this that fears in Canberra turn towards the emergence of an "arc of instability (pdf)" off Australia's northern coasts.

Even Fiji, the tourist capital of the region, has been looking sickly. There has been no repeat of the coups that result whenever the Indo-Fijian minority gets a taste of power, and fears of unrest were averted this month when general elections returned a Melanesian-dominated government.

But disputes still simmer around army chief Frank Bainimarama, whose laudable opposition to the 2000 coup plotters has tilted towards outright insurrection in recent months.

The nightmare scenario is that one of these countries could become a failed state and a breeding ground for either terrorism, or transnational crime, or both, but it's unlikely that any of them will descend into a state of Iraq-style disorder soon. Melanesia's tribal culture may encourage endlessly complex factional splits, but it also tends to discourage the sort of ideological dispute that sustains unrest in other parts of the world.

Most societies in the region are village-based, agricultural and highly decentralised. Central government has little effect on most people's lives, and if it broke down a lot of places would probably barely notice. And though governments naturally have to exercise a precautionary principle, it's unlikely that terrorists or crime gangs would ever see Australia's backyard as an attractive operations base.

For terrorists, there are much better opportunities in the Middle East, east Africa and the suburbs of developed cities. Criminals, for their part, can find all the support they need in the opaque business cultures and weak police forces of the Pacific's more genteel tax havens

 

[merocaine]

sorry about the double post but heres the link for the PDF

http://www.iisd.org/pdf/2005/security_aiding_or_abetting.pdf

 

[Snayke]

This is getting very confusing. It seems the "official" armed forces troops are infact against the police. I asked my dad about the rivalry(my parents are from East Timor, left a few years after Indonesia took over and started culling everything) and he said something about that they would fight each other or something.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200605/s1648798.htm

There's the link that mentioned armed forces killing police. Too many factions. DAMN!

 

[gf0012-aust]

This is getting very confusing. It seems the "official" armed forces troops are infact against the police. I asked my dad about the rivalry(my parents are from East Timor, left a few years after Indonesia took over and started culling everything) and he said something about that they would fight each other or something.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200605/s1648798.htm

There's the link that mentioned armed forces killing police. Too many factions. DAMN!

Some of my cousins are from ET. they baled in the late 70's, evacuated to Darwin and eventually discovered that marrying one of my uncles was a good thing.

back on topic though - its actually more complicated than that as well.

the police and armed forces have their own divisions. - so its just not army against police against rebels against militia.

this is a clan war as much as it is an idealogical war, as much as it is a racial war, as much as it is a "pay dispute".

the whole thing has been appallingly handled by the ET Govt - and they are just as divided as the armed opponents.

 

[Aussie Digger]

Downer mentioned it in an I/V done 48 hrs ago on Ch9



There are certainly some in the Indon Govt who see it as "I told you they weren't ready" situation. There are also some who still resent the fact that ET is a separate entity.



Not in their interest, as if we became machiavellian, we could make their life very hard in the other provinces who are also itching to break away.



Bloody atrocious, I hope someone in DMO is paying attention to the amount of NS gear thats being used as they don't have confidence in issued gear.

It's a dogs breakfast.

They are SASR and 4RAR troopers in those photo's. DMO might buy kit on their behalf, but it ain't from mainstream acquisition projects. It's from Redfin...

Being a "Command" SOCOMD has a lot more latitude with what it orders, from what I understand, the fact that the kit is found nowhere else in ADF makes little difference...

 

[pepsi]

According to the news yesterday, it was relatively calm after the Australian soldiers secured the airport and started doing some patrols and stuff

But later that day i think was when the UN office got surrounded, but also today apparently there has been more violence

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,19272198-2,00.html

"Where are the Australians?" asked the man, who identified himself only as Constantine. "They promised to save us."

I wonder why he had to ask that, wouldn't we be doing quite substantial patrols by now?

Either way, according to that article it seems we have stepped up the intensity of patrols since yesterday anyway

WITH a major part of the Australian force now on the ground in Dili, troops were moving out into the city to guard key points and to oversee disengagement of warring factions, the Australian Defence Force said.

I wonder if those Tiger ARH's would have been userful for this, for a few patrols around the hill areas, an article yesterday said black hawks were going around in an attempt to 'intimidate' the forces, although i don't know about the accuracy of that because the article also described them as 'high powered attack helicopters' heh

 

[gf0012-aust]

They are SASR and 4RAR troopers in those photo's. DMO might buy kit on their behalf, but it ain't from mainstream acquisition projects. It's from Redfin...

The bloke with the orange bergin? the other 2 with black schoolbag napsacks?

 

[scraw]

Bloody atrocious, I hope someone in DMO is paying attention to the amount of NS gear thats being used as they don't have confidence in issued gear.

It's a dogs breakfast.

I was thinking that myself, from helmets to boots to packs, seems like they all visited a few stores at some stage.

 

[gf0012-aust]

I was thinking that myself, from helmets to boots to packs, seems like they all visited a few stores at some stage.

some of those blokes are SAS, but I'm guessing that a few of them are ADGies.

the thing with SAS blokes is that even when they don;t have std gear - they look right. some of those blokes just don't fit right.

woolies in townsville and darwin have made another killing on mars bars and camping gear

 

[scraw]

some of those blokes are SAS, but I'm guessing that a few of them are ADGies.

the thing with SAS blokes is that even when they don;t have std gear - they look right. some of those blokes just don't fit right.

woolies in townsville and darwin have made another killing on mars bars and camping gear

If you take a look at that whole thread I'm pretty sure I saw one bloke rocking a black helmet, leftover from TAG-EAST duties or something I guess. Between him and the guy with an orange pack it just looks really odd.

Net effect is zero of course, just strange looking.

 

[Snayke]

gf0012-aust - Most of my relatives who bailed from East Timor went to Portugal from Indonesia, worked there for a while then came to Australia. Anyone who didn't is still in East Timor or Indonesia. My grandma had a coffee farm there apparently. Much luck of getting that back. *sniffs*

But I've safely say all of us prefer to be in Australia and recognise ourselves as Australians now. Rather messed up in East Timor it seems. I'd agree with our government when they say it will be at least a year long deployment. I would suggest we stay there even if it's with a lesser force just to have a stabilising presence. The East Timorese most probably trust our soldiers over any of theirs. From what I've read in the news, even the different factions or the larger factions welcome our presence.

Also, it wouldn't hurt to have an active deployment constantly in a neighbouring nation. Would give our diggers field experience, even if it's quiet. This would count as a tour right? Means more pay?

EDIT: The military has been supplying the militia. :\

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/military-stoking-the-murder-frenzy/2006/05/26/1148524886055.html

EDIT2: The gang and racial violence seems to overshadow the political divide now.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,19272198-2,00.html

Sigh.. so sad.

 

[Padman]

Does anyone know the composition of NZ forces deploying? Also who thinks the NZDF wishes it had the MRV now?

 

[Aussie Digger]

The bloke with the orange bergin? the other 2 with black schoolbag napsacks?

Bergens? What are we, effing poms???

I haven't seen anyone I thought was an Adgie yet. They somehow managed to sneak some MP-5's into their armouries (for what reason I have NO idea, all those CT operations they conduct I suppose!!!) but I have NEVER seen or heard of Adgies getting M4's. The "reason" SOCOMD were allowed them was the so-called benefit's of them for water ops compared to F-88's.

Adgies wouldn't go within 100 miles of the ocean... The only reason they'd need them is to boost their ego's so they can keep telling each other how "elite" they are... :rel

There's nothing wrong with "customisations" anyway. I still have a lovely set of Danner's I used to wear and a set of chest webbing that Army is still "humming and harring" over allowing nowadays...

Oh but you might be "out bush" and need a new one to replace it. Army's not going to give you Danner's and chest webbing. Maybe if they did digs wouldn't be customising the shite issued in the first place. Here I am 8 years later and my boots and chest webbing are still fine. If I'm out bush for 8 years you're not going to have to worry about my kit wearing out, I will...

 

[gf0012-aust]

I haven't seen anyone I thought was an Adgie yet. They somehow managed to sneak some MP-5's into their armouries (for what reason I have NO idea, all those CT operations they conduct I suppose!!!) but I have NEVER seen or heard of Adgies getting M4's. The "reason" SOCOMD were allowed them was the so-called benefit's of them for water ops compared to F-88's.

Adgies wouldn't go within 100 miles of the ocean... The only reason they'd need them is to boost their ego's so they can keep telling each other how "elite" they are... :rel

you sure about the M4 issue?

the reason I ask is because one of my female staff had her husband in ET in 99. He was part of the original Edinburgh AB Firies who were streamed into the ADGie role. When he was deployed to Dili he sent back happy snaps of himself driving the perimeter in a Landy and with an M4 on his lap.

and yes, they seem to think that they are the SOCOM equiv of the old USAF airfield protection force.

 

[Magoo]

Here's some 4RAR guys (with M4s) with their new 171SQN mates.

Magoo

 

[old faithful]

ha ha! firies slotting into adgie roles!! adgies love to look warrie!! shame our A-Res grunts skills are much better! the bloke with the orange pack could be air traffic controler or some pouge attached to a spec unit where cam is irrellivent, didnt see it my self. as for customising equipment, weve disscussed this in other threads. Apart from being nessesary in some roles, unfortunatly a lot of digs these days suffer from acute "hollywood syndrome!" and that is a fact! Must look cool! recently ive seen pics of digs in various mags with face cam jobs that look like theve been done by make up artists, while the back of thier necks, wrists and neck remain un-camed....we used to pay out on yanks for this attitude,now it looks like weve joined em.

 

[Aussie Digger]

you sure about the M4 issue?

the reason I ask is because one of my female staff had her husband in ET in 99. He was part of the original Edinburgh AB Firies who were streamed into the ADGie role. When he was deployed to Dili he sent back happy snaps of himself driving the perimeter in a Landy and with an M4 on his lap.

and yes, they seem to think that they are the SOCOM equiv of the old USAF airfield protection force.

He might have some snaps, but I can virtually guarantee HE wasn't issued with that weapon...

I like Adgies and have a good deal of respect for their capabilities, but they are just grunts in a particular (and liimited) role. There is nothing "special" about them, in a specwarrie sense...

 

[megatron]

Malaysians also send their troops in and met some "warm welcome" from the rogue soldiers.

DILI, May 27 (Bernama) -- Barely five hours after the Malaysian military team arrived at the Timor Leste International Airport here Saturday for a peacekeeping mission at the world's newest independent nation, they were given "a hostile reception" by an unknown party believed to be aligned to the sacked Timor Leste military group at a nearby village.

The attack on the Beto Village occurred at 11.45am local time today when the Malaysian Special Mission team was just settling down with their equipment at the Timor Leste Police Academy, about a 20-minute drive from Dili city.

Beto Village is one of the villages located outside the police academy.

This reporter who followed the team to Dili observed that a member of the Malaysian military team, consisting of army paratroopers and commandos, had noticed a house on fire at the Beto Village and saw some movements of rebels at the village.

Realising that the trend of the rebel group was to attack police personnel and destroy villagers' houses, the team members were ordered to immediately duck and be prepared for any eventuality.

A group of Malaysian commandos were then sent to the village to observe the situation and patrol the area.

The Malaysian army had been taught the basic Tetum language, the spoken language by the locals, to introduce themselves as peacekeepers.

An Australian military helicopter was seen hovering the Beto Village and four trucks and a military tank were also seen heading towards Dili soon after.

Following the attack on the village, villagers around the area flocked to the police academy to seek refuge.

Soon after the incident, members of the Malaysian media initially supposed to stay with the army commandos were moved to another block as the police academy is believed to be one of the "hotspots" to be attacked by the rebels.

Six journalists, photographers and cameramen from the Malaysian National News Agency (Bernama), RTM and TV3 have joined the Malaysian troops in their peacekeeping mission.

The Timor Leste government earlier this week asked Australia, New Zealand, Portugal and Malaysia to send troops to help restore order.

Two Royal Malaysian Navy vessels -- "KD Mahawangsa" and "KD Inderasakti" -- are ferrying the equipment of the Malaysian troops, including armoured carriers. They left the Lumut naval base yesterday.

-- BERNAMA