2nd Australian led Timor Leste intervention

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Big-E

Banned Member
marxist_command said:
Indo's Invade?:confused:

C'mon guys, read your history book once more
Indo never invade Timor Lest.
It's their own decision to join Us
How do you explain the Dili and Liquica Church Massacres? Out of these two incidents more than 1000 were killed and several hundred wounded. The Dili Massacre was one of the few that rivaled Tiananmen Square. Did they sacrifice their lives for nothing?:(
 

Snayke

New Member
I hope he was joking. My parents are from East Timor and I'm sure they know a lot more than you, marxist_command, about the invasion of East Timor by the Indonesians.
 
A

Aussie Digger

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marxist_command said:
Indo's Invade?:confused:

C'mon guys, read your history book once more
Indo never invade Timor Lest.
It's their own decision to join Us
That must be why Indonesia moved 25,000 troops into ET, including via Amphibious and Parachute insertions. Cause ET "WANTED" to join Indonesia. Just like West Papua did...

I think YOU should try reading the history books and not the ones sanctioned by YOUR Government...
 

Subangite

New Member
Aussie Digger said:
That must be why Indonesia moved 25,000 troops into ET, including via Amphibious and Parachute insertions. Cause ET "WANTED" to join Indonesia. Just like West Papua did...

I think YOU should try reading the history books and not the ones sanctioned by YOUR Government...
To be fair, Indonesia as a country never had a social agreement or social contract amongst all its inhabitants to exist as a unified island archipeligo, people were united against the Dutch but not as a republic under centralized Javan control, it was forced on them. Thats why so many parts of the country have aspirations of independence, not just Papua and Aceh, but Riau and some others. If anything, Indonesian history books probably want to preserve the idea of an "Indonesia" and its unity, eventhough certain quarters are not and never have been happy with the concept.

The idea of Indonesia is all encompassing, early on in its history, its leaders even toyed with the idea of incorporating Malaysia and Singapore into a new enlarged greater Indonesian Republic. This was during the military "confrontation" era. The 5 power defence agreement with Australia, New Zealand and the UK, was seen as a safe guard against any future agression by Indonesia on Malaysia and Singapore.

Could you have imagined if the Indonesian confrontation succeeded, Indonesian history books would have written, Malaysia and Singapore WANTED to join the Indonesian republic.
 
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rossfrb_1

Member
marxist_command said:
Indo's Invade?:confused:

C'mon guys, read your history book once more
Indo never invade Timor Lest.
It's their own decision to join Us
I really hope that was an attempt at a joke.
If not, can you cite which history book you were referring to?

rb
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Snayke said:
I hope he was joking. My parents are from East Timor and I'm sure they know a lot more than you, marxist_command, about the invasion of East Timor by the Indonesians.
Thats news to about 12 of my relatives as well. Apparently they were given refugee status after the original Dilli massacre of 1974 for no valid reason. They've been living in australia for the last 30+ years for the wrong reasons.

If you don't like an australian perspective, then try looking at the portuguese and UN versions as well.

Indonesia as an ex Dutch colony decided to acquire East Timor - an ex Portuguese colony by force in the mid 70's. East Timor has never wanted to be an Indonesian colony or part of a Javan empire.

you can start with googling "Carnation Revolution" "east timor" "1974"
 
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Snayke

New Member
My parents left in '79 and went to Portugal. :) Lived there, dad worked for a while then came to Australia. It's kind of odd looking at my history. Two conflicts happened to make me who I am today.

The Chinese Civil War, my grandfather was a capitalist chased out of China and landed in East Timor. :p

Then the Indonesian invasion, which forced my parents to flee to Portugal and finally arrive in Australia. Also, my other grandfather is Portuguese, so if the Portuguese never got into colonialism, I would not exist.

Strange to dwell on the recent past(as in within the last century).

But from what my dad has told me in the past, the East Timorese who foguht resorted to using bows and arrows in the jungle. The only weapons they had were leftover Portuguese stuff, which I think they purposely left. :\

And whoever said Portugal screwed up East Timor, did you know before Portugal took East Timor, the people actually DID have ethnic conflict? The east and the west regularly fought before Portugal colonised East Timor and brought about changes and other good stuff.

They left because the East Timorese told them to go. A lot of other colonial powers did not let the people vote for independence. France got into a war with the Viet Minh and were FORCED to leave because they got an ass-whooping at Dien Bien Phu due to arrogance.

There was no "deserting" East Timor. East Timor had a vote for independence and Portugal let go. How is that "deserting" when you're told to leave? It is not Portugals fault that Indonesia decided to invade. Portugal does not make Indonesia's decisions. Indonesia makes its own decision, and is responsible for its own actions. Trying to blame another nation is just ridiculous.
 

marxist_command

New Member
The "Dili Masacre"?

RIDICULOUS

TNI just hunting down the rebellion forces IN MOUNTAIN AREA. Not urban.U don't know what they do if they catch pro-Indonesian or TNI soldier. The victim was beheaded and they hang their head on trees or stabbed them with spears.Talking about experiences,My Uncle lost his children who was working in Dili and one week later, thy found his head and body separated 5 km from Dili.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
marxist_command said:
The "Dili Masacre"?

RIDICULOUS

TNI just hunting down the rebellion forces IN MOUNTAIN AREA. Not urban.
I think you need to look at a map. Dilli is not a mountainous area - its flat as tack in the city centre and urban areas - some of the others in here can confirm that as they've been there. You apparently have not as you would otherwise know about the terrain in the city and immediate urban areas.

Look at the UN reports on the efforts of General Benny Murdano if you need some clarity on who they were shooting. - The majority lot of them were civilians.

As this post is going to deteriorate into a volley of your beliefs and what was written up in numerous UN security briefings - then I guess there is no point in continuing the thread.

I suggest that you make the effort and do some research instead of blindly making easily challenged statements - and evidence that was filmed and recorded at the time.

On 7 December 1975, only one day after a visit to Jakarta by President Gerald Ford and Secretary of State Henry Kissinger of the United States, Indonesia deployed 10,000 troops—by sea, air, and land—into Dili after an already devastating naval and aerial bombardment led by General Benny Murdani. Within days of an invasion marked by public torture, rape, and the random killing of mass civilians, Portuguese governor Mario Lemos Pire and his remaining administration made a covert and final exodus during the night to the island of Atauro, marking the end of over 460 years of colonization, without decolonization achieved. On 17 July 1976, Indonesia claimed East Timor its 27th province despite condemnation from the United Nations, and it continued full-scale attacks through March 1979 through weaponry largely supplied by the United States under the administration of President Jimmy Carter. Within a year of the attack, an estimated 60,000 East Timorese had been killed, while tens of thousands sought refuge from the Armed Forces of the Republic of Indonesia (ABRI) in the rugged mountainous interior of East Timor, where Fretilin guerrilla forces remained; others were forced into Indonesian resettlement camps, where disease, malnutrition, and death were rampant. The island was relegated to a "closed colony" status by the military from December 1975 through 1 January 1989.

It has been estimated that some 250,000 were killed since 1975 when warfare seized the island. Mass terror and killings were widespread, including 1,000 in Aitana in July 1981, 400 in Lacluta in September 1981, and, finally securing international

LOCATION: 8° 50' S, 125° 55' E. BOUNDARY LENGTHS: Indonesia, 228 km (142 mi). COASTLINE: 706 km (439 mi).


attention, some 270 during the Santa Cruz massacre of 12 November 1991, in which peaceful mourners and demonstrators were killed by Indonesian troops' open fire in a cemetery in Dili. While Indonesia experienced a shift in leadership with the forced resignation of President Suharto in 1997 and rise to power of his vice president, B. J. Habibie, East Timor endorsed Fretilin leader José Alexandre "Xanana" Gusmão, then the president of the National Council of Timorese Resistance (CNRT). Their continued resistance against military occupation and terror, coupled with heightened international scrutiny of the atrocities within the island, may have prompted Habibie in January 1999 to extend the choice to East Timorese citizens: autonomy under Indonesian rule, or outright independence. An overwhelming 99% of eligible voters were present during the 30 August 1999 referendum, which secured the vote for independence.

However, postelection violence and killings led by pro-Indonesian militias and the army, which killed more than 1,000 people and drove some 250,000 from East Timor following the election, were a dark reminder of East Timor's subjugation to the Indonesian military, which has long remained the source of ultimate government authority. Following a unanimous decision on 25 October 1999 by the UN Security Council, East Timor was governed by UNTAET (the United Nations Transitional Administration in East Timor) and the National Consultative Council (originally formed by 15 East Timorese whose representation was later increased to 33), with the mission to rebuild the island and establish a new government by the close of 2001. In September 2001, a constituent assembly was elected, and given with the task of writing a constitution for East Timor. In April 2002, José Alexandre "Xanana" Gusmão defeated Xavier do Amaral for the presidency, and on 20 May 2002 East Timor became an independent nation. A successor mission to UNTAET, the United Nations Mission of Support in East Timor (UNMISET) was established to provide assistance to East Timor over a period 12 months, especially in matters of law enforcement and security. East Timor became the 191st UN member state on 27 September 2002.

As of December 2002, there were an estimated 30,000 remaining of the 250,000 people who, after the violence of September 1999, first arrived in settlement camps found along the countryside of West Timor, largely around the town of Atambua. More live outside the camps or elsewhere in Indonesia. The Indonesian government and the office of the UN High Commissioner for Refugees declared that all East Timorese residing in Indonesia would lose their refugee status after 31 December 2002.

Indonesia's attempts to bring to justice those responsible for the 1999 violence in East Timor have been heavily criticized. Under intense international pressure, Indonesia set up a special human rights court to try those responsible for the violence. The court's record—in both investigating the involvement of Indonesia's most senior security officials and its apparent willingness to acquit others with what is considered overwhelming evidence against them—has been condemned. As of 20 January 2003, the court had indicted eighteen suspects for atrocities in East Timor: four were convicted, eleven acquitted, and three cases were still being heard.

Bishop Carlos Ximenes Belo, who shared the Nobel Peace Prize with José Ramos Horta in 1996, announced his resignation in November 2002. He won the prize for his stand in defense of Timorese rights. In 1999, militia gangs attacked and burned his residence where hundreds of refugees were being sheltered. In December 2002, the Indonesian human rights court sentenced the first Indonesian military official convicted in the 1999 violence for failing to prevent pro-Indonesian militiamen from attacking Belo's home. The official, Lt. Col. Soedjarwo, was sentenced to five years in prison.

Disputes between Australia and Indonesia over parts of the oiland gas-rich seabed of the Timor Sea led to the signing of the 1989 Timor Gap Treaty, which resulted in a 50–50 split of the royalties from the shared zone of undersea exploration between Australia and Indonesia. In May 2002, the treaty was renegotiated, and newly independent East Timor was granted 90% of the royalties, with Australia receiving 10%. However, the terms of the agreement were conditional on East Timor foregoing its territorial claim to almost the entire oil and gas field. Foreign officials estimate a potential revenue flow of several tens of millions of dollars a year to East Timor.
 
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