2nd Australian led Timor Leste intervention

[Aussie Digger]

Seems my earlier comment was not quite correct. It was SASR elements that are already on the ground, however I can address the rumours about which "regiment" etc wil be going.

1RAR is the current "on-line" Battalion in Townsville at present, meaning that under normal circumstances they would get the gig.

However 1RAR still has a company in the Solomans, (deployed last month) and I believe 2RAR is currently providing the Al Muthana Infantry Coy, with 3RAR having a Coy in Solomans as well and 5/7RAR providing SECDET in Baghdad.

6RAR is the only battalion with no deployed elements (that I'm aware of) however is in the process of working up for the already announced PRT in Afghanistan...

Talked about stretched. Bet the Government wished it hadn't got rid of 8/9RAR so suddenly...

1RAR from what I've heard only has 3x manned rifle Coy's at present with the 4th Coy used as a "holding" Coy and not capable of deployment.

In my view then the taskforce heading to Timor HAS to made of a combination of Coys from 1RAR and 2RAR and possibly 5/7RAR.

4RAR Commando's and RAAF Air Field Defence guards are already on their way from all reports and will be used to secure the airfield, along with SASR just as was done in the initial stages of Interfet. I'd imagine SASR have a few "specials" lined up already as well.

(Rioting ring leaders watch out)....

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

What a nightmare Indonesia would face if West Papua, Timor, Sumatra declared independence and PRC made a move on the Natunas. Then all the other islands would want to break away and Indonesia would only be in Java.

yeah the malaysian's could pick up the pieces and grab south Borneo. i supose their some of the problems you face with such an ethnically diverse country, and it doesnt look like theirs gonna be an easy fix. anyway this is bordering on political talk and i gathered that thats blasphamy here!

 

[Big-E]

yeah the malaysian's could pick up the pieces and grab south Borneo. i supose their some of the problems you face with such an ethnically diverse country, and it doesnt look like theirs gonna be an easy fix. anyway this is bordering on political talk and i gathered that thats blasphamy here!

I think it's more strategic than political.

 

[RubiconNZ]

Off the press....

Operation Astute

Australian Defence Force poised for deployment to Timor Leste

The Australian Defence Force is poised for a rapid deployment of troops to bring security, peace and confidence to Timor Leste.

A senior team of Government officials headed by the Vice Chief of the Defence Force, Lieutenant General Ken Gillespie, will consult with the East Timorese Government later today on the terms and conditions of an Australian deployment. He will also discuss how the ADF will cooperate with the F-FDTL.

We currently have one battalion group of about 1300 personnel based on the third battalion, Royal Australian Regiment, pre-positioned to deploy at short notice. A part of this battalion group has already departed Australia.

A Commando Company from the Fourth Battalion of the Royal Australian Regiment (Sydney-based unit) will move to Dili in four S-70 Black Hawks and a C-130 transport aircraft today. Their task is to secure a point of entry for follow on forces.
A C-130 Hercules from the Royal Australian Air Force Air Lift Group (Richmond based asset) will depart Darwin today to undertake evacuation of Australian and other approved nationals. The C-130 will attempt two evacuation flights today.
The Guided Missile Frigate HMAS Adelaide is in the vicinity of Timor Leste and prepared to support ground operations.
The Amphibious Landing Ship HMAS Kanimbla is currently mid-way between Darwin and Timor Leste. It contains a hospital capability.
The Heavy Landing Ship HMAS Tobruk and the Amphibious Landing Ship HMAS Manoora are positioning to embark follow-on forces.
By late this evening it is expected that there will be approximately 200 ADF personnel in Dili.

Given the prudent military preparations that have been ongoing during the previous three weeks, the Australian Defence Force is well postured for a range of contingencies, including the evacuation of Australian and other approved nationals.

The spectrum of Defence response options available to Government also includes the ability to stabilise the security environment, enabling the political issues in Timor Leste to be addressed in a calm and secure environment.

Information current at 25 May 2006
Defence.gov.au

Well there you have it the 3RAR bought up to strentgh with the 4rar company already in country, intresting they are using a unit that won't be able to do it as easily in 2010, although the ghan will get them up quick I guess. Quite a impressive operation in my mindgoes to show somethings working.

 

[Aussie Digger]

Operation Astute

Well there you have it the 3RAR bought up to strentgh with the 4rar company already in country, intresting they are using a unit that won't be able to do it as easily in 2010, although the ghan will get them up quick I guess. Quite a impressive operation in my mindgoes to show somethings working.

There you go my "source" was wrong, put off no doubt by 3RAR embarking in Townsville. 3RAR is not going to the Ghan though. 6RAR is supposed to be...

This is a complete re-run of Interfet. 3RAR was the first ADF "conventional" force into Timor last time too...

 

[RubiconNZ]

oops

My bad, I wasn't clear I meant in 2010 the 3rd RAR coldnt move in as quickly as it will be mech, but they will have "the ghan" then.

 

[Supe]

Mod edit: Better now??? Australian presence has been requested by the East Timorese. I don't see it as being very helpful in describing what the ADF is doing over there. Actually, the title pisses me off.... but don't mind me, I recently replied on another forum regarding some loony position that our invited presence there is an Australian Govt resource grab redux ala gas. Bah!

 

[abramsteve]

This is what its all about. IMO this is the type of operation that our armed forces are best used for. Im glad to hear that we are not holding any punches in dealing with this dissapointing situation.

Lets hope for a quick, clean and efficent end to this sensless violence, with out the loss of any Australian lives

 

[RubiconNZ]

Lets hope for a quick, clean and efficent end to this sensless violence, with out the loss of any Australian lives

Here, Here!

 

[Whiskyjack]

Well it seen the RNZAF is sending a 757 and C130, along with the standby infantry platton to be followed up by the rest of an infantry company and supporting elements.

 

[RubiconNZ]

Nice One

Its quite a good effort by the Kiwis, as that essentially brings them up to a battlion of personnel deployed overseas, bet they wish they had the MRV a bit sooner though, at least to get some vehicles up.

 

[stryker NZ]

if hostilities did break out in East Timor does anyone know what our guys would be going up against (eg would the dismissed Timor soldiers turn on the peace keeping forces)

 

[Snayke]

Since our diggers have touched down in Dili, or the first bunch of them, the news says its been pretty calm in Dili. There also seems to be a dispute over who is commanding the military. The president and prime minister both claim they are. Plus reports of police being killed by the military.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200605/s1648214.htm

ALL of our boys will be in country by tomorrow it says. And if the rebels would turn on the peace keepers, I'm not sure. They are fighting with government forces it seems but I don't know why civilians are being hit. It's bloody bullshit when two distinct forces have a conflict but somehow civies get mixed up.

 

[gf0012-aust]

if hostilities did break out in East Timor does anyone know what our guys would be going up against (eg would the dismissed Timor soldiers turn on the peace keeping forces)

• the dispossessed troops are pro-australian
• the govt troops are pro australian
• the police are pro australian
• the militia are the wildcard

 

[Snayke]

Eh? What militia? I thought there were only the sacked soldiers who are now the rebels and government forces. Had no idea about a militia. Rather complicated now.

 

[gf0012-aust]

And if the rebels would turn on the peace keepers, I'm not sure. They are fighting with government forces it seems but I don't know why civilians are being hit. It's bloody bullshit when two distinct forces have a conflict but somehow civies get mixed up.

This is a lot more complicated than what is being presented in the media.

• there are tribal rifts between western and eastern tribes
• the eastern tribes accuse the western tribes of being pro-communist
• the police are managed by western tribal leaders - but they also have pro-govt factions
• the army rebels are basically eastern tribes - and have been complaining about racial discrimination
• the govt troops are pro-australian
• both govt troops and rebel troops have had their leaders trained in australia
• the head of the rebels is a Naval commander - even though the press call him a "Major"
• the prime minister is hopeless and completely out of his depth, he is also hostile to the aust govt to some degree over resource issues - there are concerns from our end that he's corrupt
• the president is pro australian and has an australian wife
• the secretary of the parliament is pro-australian
• the majority of the civilians are pro-australian

as an aside, if the Indons are paying attention, they will also be pro-australian in the sense that Prime Minister Alkatiri is regarded as pro-communist - and they despise the communists.

its a witches brew.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Eh? What militia? I thought there were only the sacked soldiers who are now the rebels and government forces. Had no idea about a militia. Rather complicated now.

More like opportunist petty criminals - I imagine that they will be sorted out pretty quickly as the rebel troops won;t want to be associated with them. I wouldn't at all be surprised that if push comes to shove, they would assist in their capture as a gesture of goodwill.

 

[Snayke]

Oh. Those guys. Perhaps they are responsible for the attacks on civilians? But yeh, I remember the rebels wanting Australian presence in Timor Leste so I reckon they'll talk now. But that's just my thought.

 

[Supe]

This is a lot more complicated than what is being presented in the media.

....

I wasn't aware Alkatiri had communist leanings...

Regards the training received by the FDTL. I would think that training the armed forces of a new nation, much emphasis would put upon recruits and leadership that they serve the State and that mutiny and the like is an inappropriate response to grievances. It would be interesting to find out if ADF included this in the syllabus. It's fortuitous for Australian govt that most of the main players are are pro-Australian, just too bad FDTL hadn't been inculcated on proper military conduct by advisors.

I hope there's no 'amnesty' for the deserters. They have proven themselves not worthy of the uniform they wear.

 

[gf0012-aust]

I wasn't aware Alkatiri had communist leanings...

thats the view of the army in general, not just the rebels.

a little precis of the depth of this internal cluster (from the Age):

"Responsibility lies firstly with the East Timorese leadership. Prime Minister Mari Alkatiri and his Fretilin party colleagues sat back while a third of the 1800-strong army walked off, with their weapons, over small grievances, and then were sacked.

President Jose Xanana Gusmao, the charismatic former resistance leader who has formal command of the military, has also been weak, strangely disengaged from the army split as it festered for three months.

Interior Minister Rogerio Lobato, a former Fretilin exile in Mozambique, where he was jailed for diamond smuggling and once tried to stab his colleague Jose Ramos Horta, runs a factionalised police force.

A whiff of internal Fretilin power play, perhaps an attempt to unseat Alkatiri, hangs around the actions of army rebel Major Alfredo Reinado, who is not entirely aligned with the main body of dismissed soldiers, recruits from the western part of the country."

The comments re Gusmao are slightly flawed. he is an executive symbolic head anyway, he has no legal power to take charge of anything unless sanctioned by the Parliament/Govt.

Also Alkitiri is way outside of his skillset. He's got into the role due to factional loading. Think of it as a variation of "branch stacking"