Beltrami2005
Member
Well but it is happening. Ukraine is armed to the teeth and fights fabolous. I have great respect for them.
The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread
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I think it has been discussed a little bit, and I would agree. This was a big loss for Russia, yet another reason why going in was a bad idea. That having been said, the split is real even within Ukraine. There is still a pro-Russian minority. But it's smaller than it was, more isolated, and with no chance of ever taking center stage politically, at least within the forseeable future. On the flip side, the same problem exists for Ukraine with regards to the Donbas. There are quite a few people there who also hate Ukraine now.
Lastly, on the question of "holding Ukraine", I don't think anyone here thinks Russia will conquer all or even most of Ukraine. In the areas Russia will conquer a demographic shift is already in progress, and it's something I've talked about in other posts, including relatively recently. You'll notice, despite what you write, that there isn't much of a guerilla resistance campaign in occupied areas, even ones that were clearly not pro-Russian in any meaningful way. Places like Energodar, Melitopol', and other parts of Zaporozhye and Kherson region. I think Russia will be able to hold what they conquer, assuming they can get a political settlement to end the war with them in possession of the territory. There will likely be some sort of right to return discussion after the war, and Russia will probably try to impose a state of affairs where people who don't want to live under Russia will be discouraged from coming back.
I actually agree with the point about the bad blood now between Russians and Ukrainians it's the reason strategicly this is a loss for Russia either way. And the true tragedy of this war.
I think when this is over there is also going to be no small anger in Ukraine towards the west. It's almost inconceivable that there won't be a feeling of betrayal by Ukrainians if this ends badly for them. I also have a sneaking suspicion that post Ukraine reconstruction is going to be mostly a Russian responsibility, it's not hard to see the e.u not investing in Ukraine once Ukraine stops fighting Russia especially as Russian is the country with the greatest desire for stability in the region
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As I've said I don't think anyone questions or doubts the Ukrainian or for that fact Russians ability to fight. Both sides have proven to be resourceful, determined, stubborn and courageous in combat. Frankly there exactly they the type of forces you wouldn't want to run into. As for the current state of Ukraine military capabilities yes our are correct but this is entirely about the state of them after the war. For the situation to remain would imop require a military victory over Russia as it's doubtful a economic or diplomatic one is likely to come before the question is settled on the battlefield.
Unfortunately for Ukraine a war of attrition is not in there favour long term as stated t Russian army is also a incredibly hard army to defeat. And in terms of manpower the are for all intents on there own. In terms of material they are also at a disadvantage in terms of capabilities and mass. These are significant and growing probloms as the form of warfare is attritional. Tho that itself is actually a reflection of the strength of Ukraine in that a rapid and decisive blow was tried and deemed unachievable.
KipPotapych
Well-Known Member
We will see what happens. Merz must have read my earlier post on Europe and Russia:
It’s time to work this thing out and put the misery behind and look forward. You cannot build European security architecture without its biggest member, it just doesn’t work like that and will fail every single time otherwise.
Forgot to post yesterday. It appears that Timoshenko might be going back to jail (laughing) and the picture they posted is rather hilarious:
On the civilian infrastructure, electricity, heating, etc:
In the meantime, Belgorod…
Starting Friday, one Russian city on the border, Belgorod, got a taste of what the Ukrainians have been going through when it was hit by widespread outages after Kyiv’s forces launched its own strike against the city’s infrastructure.
But is it just the one strike?
In Belgorod near-daily drone attacks have become part of life, and resentment has grown in the region about the apathy of Russians in other parts of the country to their fate.
Ah, but if course, it has been going on forever and Ukraine tried to achieve just that in Belgorod for a long time (if their capabilities allowed, it would be significantly more widespread). We just decide to report it like we do.
Gladkov has still described the situation on Monday as “practically catastrophic” and admitted for the first time that it would not be possible to fully restore the system.
The temperature, meanwhile, has plummeted to just 12 degrees Fahrenheit, (-11 Celsius) and Tuesday the governor warned that the situation could deteriorate and cause further power outages across the region. He called on residents to prepare to leave at short notice in case of an emergency situation in which power and heating were totally lost.
Gladkov said residents should relocate children to relatives in parts of Russia with power and heating if they could. “We understand that it is impossible to fully restore electricity supply to residential buildings — first and foremost apartment blocks — and to industrial enterprises solely through backup generation,” he said in a video address on Telegram.
Looks like they are a step away from the situation in Kyiv, but not far behind. Klitchko also encouraged residents to leave Kyiv a few days ago.
Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2026/01/14/russia-belgorod-ukraine-power-outages/
Reznikov in his tweet there says that Ukraine stands and Russia fails. Looks like both fail, but one is on a much smaller and rather isolated scale. At least Reznikov stated his position as fact. Sybiha (the UA FM), on the other hand, went ballistic on the statement by the Red Cross regarding the dire situation and attacks on electrical and heating infrastructure, but dared to include Donetsk and Belgorod to the pile.
I guess, we can conclude that Russia also “acts within the international humanitarian law”. His last paragraph is, of course, completely absurd. But this isn't new. I also wonder if his office is warm or not.
KipPotapych
Well-Known Member
You keep posting really weird stuff. Perhaps you should define what is portrayed to be primitive.
Again, for a dude from a country that hardly contributes to the Ukrainian cause, those are some rather strong desires. Also, basically until this past year:
Care to name many such cities in Europe? I would encourage thinking and, maybe, doing some reading before replying.
A lot of the stuff you post is a lot of nonsense. For example, you stated earlier that Russian economy is the size of the Netherlands. How do you measure the economy? For insrance, by nominal GDP:
By purchasing power parity or, in “primitive” terms, the real GDP or how far the money do go compared to the prices in the United States:
And so on. Those are from Wikipedia, by the way, as I believe this is more than sufficient to make the point. What is the measurement of economy you are referring to?
You then say that the Black Sea Fleet does not exist. Does it really not? I actually don’t know for sure, but I am wondering, how does it compare to the Spain’s entire Navy? Then, if we expand the scope and refer to the entire Russian Navy as well, in order to further display the great weakness, where the Black Sea Fleet is pretty far from being the main contributor, and for a reason, how is that picture looking? 60 some (?) submarines in a primitive and backward country with the economy the size of Netherlands vs 70 or whatever it is for the USA? Imagine what a “real” country could achieve?! How does the Black Sea Fleet compares to the Dutch Navy, by the way? I have no idea (and probably for a reason).
Anyway, the point is that you should look at the situation rationally as opposed to what you post - a lot of unsubstantiated certainties and convictions far different from the reality. I understand, living, what is it, 3,000-4,000 km on a straight line away from Russia and a whole bunch of countries in front and behind (read NATO allies) doing all the heavy lifting as far as defense spending is concerned, allows for some leniency and rather ignorant assumptions (or convictions in your case) about Russian primitivity and weakness and so on. But you still should be able to do better.
About seizing Russian vessels that you also mentioned and think it should be implemented by your country: how come Spain hasn’t tried it yet and likely never will?
KipPotapych
Well-Known Member
Forgot to say thst we are back to “it’s Ukraine’s fault”, yet again:
U.S. President Donald Trump told Reuters that Ukraine - not Russia - is holding up a potential peace deal, rhetoric that stands in marked contrast to that of European allies, who have consistently argued Moscow has little interest in ending its war in Ukraine.
In an exclusive interview in the Oval Office on Wednesday, Trump said Russian President Vladimir Putin is ready to wrap up his nearly four-year-old invasion of Ukraine. Zelenskiy, the U.S. president said, was more reticent.
"I think he's ready to make a deal," Trump said of the Russian president. "I think Ukraine is less ready to make a deal."
Asked why U.S.-led negotiations had not yet resolved Europe's largest land conflict since World War Two, Trump responded: "Zelenskiy."
U.S. President Donald Trump told Reuters that Ukraine - not Russia - is holding up a potential peace deal, rhetoric that stands in marked contrast to that of European allies, who have consistently argued Moscow has little interest in ending its war in Ukraine.
In an exclusive interview in the Oval Office on Wednesday, Trump said Russian President Vladimir Putin is ready to wrap up his nearly four-year-old invasion of Ukraine. Zelenskiy, the U.S. president said, was more reticent.
"I think he's ready to make a deal," Trump said of the Russian president. "I think Ukraine is less ready to make a deal."
Asked why U.S.-led negotiations had not yet resolved Europe's largest land conflict since World War Two, Trump responded: "Zelenskiy."
Beltrami2005
Member
Well there can be no mayor guerilla since russia genocides the local population. Males are forced into army and killed, children abducted ect. The effects on the population is devastating and was last seen in WW II in Europe. Also the land hold now, is basicly wasteland. Mined, destroyed, poisoned. So even the areas that are under russias controle are basicly worthless and a burden.
Beltrami2005
Member
You keep posting really weird stuff. Perhaps you should define what is portrayed to be primitive.
Again, for a dude from a country that hardly contributes to the Ukrainian cause, those are some rather strong desires. Also, basically until this past year:
Care to name many such cities in Europe? I would encourage thinking and, maybe, doing some reading before replying.
A lot of the stuff you post is a lot of nonsense. For example, you stated earlier that Russian economy is the size of the Netherlands. How do you measure the economy? For insrance, by nominal GDP:
View attachment 54178
By purchasing power parity or, in “primitive” terms, the real GDP or how far the money do go compared to the prices in the United States:
View attachment 54179
And so on. Those are from Wikipedia, by the way, as I believe this is more than sufficient to make the point. What is the measurement of economy you are referring to?
You then say that the Black Sea Fleet does not exist. Does it really not? I actually don’t know for sure, but I am wondering, how does it compare to the Spain’s entire Navy? Then, if we expand the scope and refer to the entire Russian Navy as well, in order to further display the great weakness, where the Black Sea Fleet is pretty far from being the main contributor, and for a reason, how is that picture looking? 60 some (?) submarines in a primitive and backward country with the economy the size of Netherlands vs 70 or whatever it is for the USA? Imagine what a “real” country could achieve?! How does the Black Sea Fleet compares to the Dutch Navy, by the way? I have no idea (and probably for a reason).
Anyway, the point is that you should look at the situation rationally as opposed to what you post - a lot of unsubstantiated certainties and convictions far different from the reality. I understand, living, what is it, 3,000-4,000 km on a straight line away from Russia and a whole bunch of countries in front and behind (read NATO allies) doing all the heavy lifting as far as defense spending is concerned, allows for some leniency and rather ignorant assumptions (or convictions in your case) about Russian primitivity and weakness and so on. But you still should be able to do better.
About seizing Russian vessels that you also mentioned and think it should be implemented by your country: how come Spain hasn’t tried it yet and likely never will?
Spain has seized multiple russian vessels.
- Motor Yacht Tango — Owned/linked to Russian oligarch Viktor Vekselberg; seized in Palma de Mallorca under a Spanish court order at the request of U.S. authorities.
- Superyacht Valerie — Linked to Sergei Chemezov (head of state conglomerate Rostec); provisionally immobilised in Barcelona by Spanish authorities.
- Luxury yacht Lady Anastasia — Seized under EU sanctions in Spain; linked to Russian oligarch Aleksandr Mikheyev (head of Rosoboronexport).
- Superyacht Crescent — Reportedly detained in Spain (e.g., Tarragona) as part of sanction enforcement against oligarch-linked assets.
Spain seizes another Russian yacht believed to belong to an oligarch. (Published 2022)
The ship was impounded in the Spanish port of Tarragona pending an inspection to establish its exact ownership, Spain’s transport ministry said.
Hoover
Member
Nonsense. And all but Trump are knowing that. It is disgusting by Trump to blame the victim, and not the aggressor. Putin wants only the surrender of the Urkaine (nothing more are the Russian "peace plan"). Instead of supporting the victing Trump supports Russia for meeting all Russian requirements.
Putin will his invasion if he gets all his demands solved. And Trump wants to make "big deals" with Russia, the Ukraine is an annoying obstacle on that way.