The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread

[crest]

I would suggest that Russia has indeed committed acts of genocide against Ukraine. War is ugly and the destruction of cities seems to be the norm. Removing children and sending them to Russia to be adopted and assimilated is another matter all together. Forcing Ukrainians to accept Russian passports in occupied land is also genocide. There are a whole host of things that Russians are perpetrating against Ukrainians that qualify as genocide. Civilian casualties aren't the only measure of genocide although that might be what some people typically look for. That being said when the war eventually reaches it's conclusion I don't believe Russia will ever face these charges.

The Ten Stages of the Russian Genocide in Ukraine

Source: EU Debates, News & OpinionsThe Ten Stages of the Russian Genocide in UkraineBy Emily MullinAnd the Genocide Watch Ukraine Team Talks about a negotiated settlement of Russia’s war against Ukraine have dominated international headlines. As many hope that President Trump can talk Mr. Putin...

www.genocidewatch.com

Individual acts are not a state program like I said the low number of civilians killed is proof that it's not a state policy if the state of Russia wished to commit genocide they are capable of much more then 4% Infact the norm is greater then that. No argument you can make invalidates the fact that casualties are lower then normal in warfare. Again I'm not saying atrocities don't happen I'm saying they are not the state policy Infact it appears the policy is to limit them
Forcing Ukrainians to accept Russian passports is not genocide this is a ridiculous idea. Truth is the passports are a technical thing as they are now in Russian territory so by law in order to operate freely and mind you they are free not imprisoned then need a passport recognizing there legally protected status. This is a signal that Russia if possible wishes to absorb Ukraines not kill them. Tho I'm sure there will also be a prosses for those who wish to leave to do so. If they didn't leave before Russia came and mind you the advancements are slow and that does happen not to anyone's suprise. one could even argue those who stay do so because they want to

Yes the registration is huge this happens in long bombardments it's not policy tho as in areas that are not defended as long the damage is correspondingly less

 

[crest]

Ukraine as a "neutral state" is code for a impoverished Ukraine without any chance of development. Ukraine is european and thus wants to be part of Europe. There is zero chance for development in a russian dominated ukraine. It would be stuck in misery just like belarus or russia itself.

Its up to Ukrainians to decide their future and they chose Europe with overwhelming numbers. And now after Russia commited so many crimes against them, thats set in stone.

I dont denie Russia has impact, its just 100% negative and its Europes core interest to see russia as weak as possible.

As i said, appeasement leads always to war. When Russia knows any airplane entering european airspace will get shot down, Russia wont do it. Evry weakness shown is exploited. Its as simple as that.

A neutral state is not code for poor it's a direct statement about military capabilities. To my knowledge Russia provided cheep energy to Ukraine this is a benefit to the state. There economy is Ukraine business Russia did not then and does not now run it. Barring the fact Russia has a vested interest in the area being stable. It would most likely help support whoever was in charge as long as that neutrality and stability was provided they of course prefer a growing trade partner that was not a military threat with good trade relations. The condition if Ukraine economy is neither the fault of Russia or Europe it is Infact the result of the Ukrainian government itself.

At least that's what I can gather

 

[Beltrami2005]

Unable to capture at this point. If they could capture it, it would be a different situation.



This is simply not true. Areas under Russian occupation that aren't in the immediate near-front area are accessible to civilians including foreign reporters. German TV did a story from Mariupol'. Additionally I've posted videos from towns that are in bad shape under Russian control in several posts above, including interviews with residents. This isn't the 1950s, there is no iron curtain. There's internet and tourism in Russia. If you wanted to travel to Mariupol' for example you easily could.



Frankly I think this is B.S. European nations are responsible for things like the Holocaust and the Belgian Congo. I would argue that Russia committing war crimes is very much in line with the history of European nations. The attempt to label some as "European" and others as not is simply a politically-motivated smear. And let's be clear, there's little difference in culture, mindset, and the reality within between Russia and Ukraine. I'd understand if you were trying to draw the line at the EU border. It would still be, in my opinion, fundamentally wrong. But it would have at least some objective reality to it. Trying to draw the line between Ukraine and Russia is ridiculous.



I don't think a naval blockade of Russian transit through the Baltic and Mediterranean would ensure peace. I think it would ensure the opposite.



I don't think it was possible to make it clear from day 1 that this would be the result, because nobody knew it would be the result.



Hindsight is 20/20. I don't think there's any major policy maker that accurately predicted the course this war would take, but I'm happy to be proven wrong. Who knew? Who predicted a 4+ year trench war dominated by drones?



The old tried and true "Hitler" argument. Except reality is more complex than that. Sometimes the opposite of appeasement also leads to war. And sometimes a compromise can help avoid war. The key thing to understand is that compromise isn't a question of what's right but a question of the middle ground between what two sides want.

How do conflicts spiral into war?

When does deterrence work – and when does it fail? Understanding spiral and deterrence theories may keep conflicts from escalating further.

goodauthority.org

I could not travel to Mariupol. Im spanish, i would be arrested there and possible disappear. There is a travel warning for ukrainian cities under russian occupation and not even Russia is save for europeans to travel. Russia is known to take hostages.

As for european or not, our cultures are fundamentally different to Russia. Both in mentality, religion, world view, art ect.

Ukraine is also very different to Russia. Far more catholic, far more order ect.

As for appeasement, one must be strong to avoid war. Russia must know that any attack on us leads to its doom. When that is clear there wont be misunderstandings. With russia you need a clear language.

 

[Beltrami2005]

A neutral state is not code for poor it's a direct statement about military capabilities. To my knowledge Russia provided cheep energy to Ukraine this is a benefit to the state. There economy is Ukraine business Russia did not then and does not now run it. Barring the fact Russia has a vested interest in the area being stable. It would most likely help support whoever was in charge as long as that neutrality and stability was provided they of course prefer a growing trade partner that was not a military threat with good trade relations. The condition if Ukraine economy is neither the fault of Russia or Europe it is Infact the result of the Ukrainian government itself.

At least that's what I can gather

Care to explain then why large areas of Russia live in absolute misery and poverty? Shouldnt it be in ther interests of Russia to have in its own areas to be stable and have good living standards? Yet living standards in Siberia for most are horrendous and stagnant.

Have you ever visited Russia`? I have, when i was 14 years old with my father in 2019. He was there on a business trip and took me with him. We were in Irkutsk and the living conditions outside the city centre looks dystopian.

Was one of those trips where when you arrive back home you thank god. For all the shortcomings that Spain or the EU may have...we are so lucky...

 

[Vanquish]

Individual acts are not a state program like I said the low number of civilians killed is proof that it's not a state policy if the state of Russia wished to commit genocide they are capable of much more then 4% Infact the norm is greater then that. No argument you can make invalidates the fact that casualties are lower then normal in warfare. Again I'm not saying atrocities don't happen I'm saying they are not the state policy Infact it appears the policy is to limit them
Forcing Ukrainians to accept Russian passports is not genocide this is a ridiculous idea. Truth is the passports are a technical thing as they are now in Russian territory so by law in order to operate freely and mind you they are free not imprisoned then need a passport recognizing there legally protected status. This is a signal that Russia if possible wishes to absorb Ukraines not kill them. Tho I'm sure there will also be a prosses for those who wish to leave to do so. If they didn't leave before Russia came and mind you the advancements are slow and that does happen not to anyone's suprise. one could even argue those who stay do so because they want to

Yes the registration is huge this happens in long bombardments it's not policy tho as in areas that are not defended as long the damage is correspondingly less

Ukranians are not in Russian territory, they are in Ukraine territory occupied by Russian forces. Typically such as the world wars, the alliance forces did not force the Germans to renounce their citizenship and accept passports of other countries. The annexation of Ukrainian territories has not been validated by the UN despite Russians assertions.

 

[crest]

Care to explain then why large areas of Russia live in absolute misery and poverty? Shouldnt it be in ther interests of Russia to have in its own areas to be stable and have good living standards? Yet living standards in Siberia for most are horrendous and stagnant.

Have you ever visited Russia`? I have, when i was 14 years old with my father in 2019. He was there on a business trip and took me with him. We were in Irkutsk and the living conditions outside the city centre looks dystopian.

Was one of those trips where when you arrive back home you thank god. For all the shortcomings that Spain or the EU may have...we are so lucky...

There are a whole host of reasons that are outside of this topic. Pertaining to it well sanctions and general anti Russian legacy policys have hindered growth with the west. Is that the entirety of the story? of course not. Is it the cause for the war? No does it have effects? Yes recruitment is higher in poor areas as it's high pay that influx of money is having effects on those regions.

There is Infact a large number of people in Russia who would argue that there current government does Infact try to fix probloms in the country and of course some that don't. As in any country

You don't like Russia I get it bro. Personaly I think you don't know much about it but what I think is about as relivent to the topic here as the constant Russia sucks cause there stupid,evil,primitive savages naritive has to do with the realitys of the war in ukraine. Except in the manner in which that perspective prevents objectively and therefore peace

 

[crest]

Ukranians are not in Russian territory, they are in Ukraine territory occupied by Russian forces. Typically such as the world wars, the alliance forces did not force the Germans to renounce their citizenship and accept passports of other countries. The annexation of Ukrainian territories has not been validated by the UN despite Russians assertions.

do you know how war works? I get the position you have but realistically Russia has taken that territory it has no intention of mass arresting the people it wants them ideally to join Russia and be productive citizens. Hence passports hence Russian citizenship...what are you expecting to happen here? Really I mean that

Tho yes I get it the idea of saying you can either join Russia or go to jail untill the end of hostilitys or prisoners exchange may seem harsh. But realistically it's actually fairly liberal as far as wartime policies go. We're also not talking about people who stayed here btw it's not like capturing a huge city rapidly. The dynamics are different here as in the numbers are low enough they are all encountered (and given aid btw) What do you think the state of Russia should do with people in the areas they capture if offering them freedom and citizenship is bad or recognition that those refusing it are in all probability a insurrection risk?

Also we'll way off topic I don't think you know much about ww11 there was very much a with us or against us policy when it comes to the civilian populations of liberated (a difference in itself you need to think about) areas. And by comparison war crimes then vs war crimes now it's two different worlds of course it's two vastly different situations. Ones that Infact make bad analogies