The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread

KipPotapych

Well-Known Member
If the western equipment cannot cross Dnipro, Ukraine will lose the left bank. Most of the equipment they are currently using is of western origin. Note that western equipment could not cross the Russian border either.

Chances that Russia would agree to something like this are about zero, in my opinion.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
If the western equipment cannot cross Dnipro, Ukraine will lose the left bank. Most of the equipment they are currently using is of western origin. Note that western equipment could not cross the Russian border either.

Chances that Russia would agree to something like this are about zero, in my opinion.
Western equipment not crossing the Dnepr likely means western equipment operated by western forces. I can't imagine anyone intends to ban Ukraine from operating Bradleys east of the Dnepr.
 

KipPotapych

Well-Known Member
^ Yeah, that is why I am not sure how a rational person can see something like that being a reasonable proposal worth discussing.

About the same as Russians asking for the NATO borders return to before 1997.
 

KipPotapych

Well-Known Member
Interesting that it is the Ukrainians who are reporting an F-16 being downed by the Russian air defences (via Google translate):

According to Air Force sources, Ivanov's plane was probably shot down by a Russian missile.
"In total, the Russians fired three missiles at the plane. It was either a guided anti-aircraft missile from the S-400 ground complex or an air-to-air missile of the R-37," the interlocutor in the authorities said.

The circumstances are still being investigated.
However, the source excludes "friendly fire" in this situation.

According to the Air Force of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, Ivanov died on Saturday, April 12. The location of the event and the circumstances are not officially reported. The only clarification of the Air Force was that it was a combat sortie.
"He died in battle, defending his native land from the occupiers... Today, F-16 pilots perform combat missions in various directions almost every day in incredibly difficult conditions, carrying out exterminating cover for aviation strike groups and striking enemy objects," the message says.

All the circumstances of the tragedy are established by an interdepartmental commission that has already begun its work.



Edit: Apparently checks out with the Russian and other missile/drone tracking reports from about 13 hours ago. Example:

IMG_9421.jpeg

IMG_9422.jpeg
 
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Fredled

Active Member
If the goal of Kellogg's map is to prevent direct potential contact with Russians, then it already failed. NATO troops are already in direct contact with the Russians on the eastern border of Finland, the three Baltic states and Poland, and around Kaliningrad. More over the border with Belarus also expose NATO troops to Russian troops.
Please someone teach him geography. :p

Second, the deployment of the Coalition forces is useless if they can't operate everywhere in Ukraine. As Ananda said, it's like telling Putin: You can invade there, we won't intervene. That's obviously not the goal of a peace deal.

Third: If the US is not participating, they should mind their own business.

Feanor said:
I would be very surprised if Russia accepts this.
I would be very surprise if Russia accepts anything that can be possibly proposed to them. As Soloviov said on his show:
Soloviov said:
Let them give us back Berlin, then we can start negotiating.
Soloviov is only half ironical.

_________________

Here is the official annoucement for the F16 pilot.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
I would be very surprise if Russia accepts anything that can be possibly proposed to them. As Soloviov said on his show: Soloviov is only half ironical.
This isn't even remotely true. Russia has clear goals and would accept an offer that helps them accomplish those goals. Obviously neither Ukraine nor western countries, except maybe Trump's America, are willing to do that. But there is a way to negotiate. However it requires a recognition of current realities and in my opinion a tit for tat exchange strategy. The problem is that Ukraine's negotiating position is weak. All this talk about Ukraine negotiating from a position of strength comes from a tacit recognition of this reality. Negotiate now and what can Ukraine offer in exchange for any return of territories? A realistic peace deal now could involve the conflict ending along the current line of contact. Russia gives up on further territorial claims, Ukraine recognizes lost territories as officially Russian. But Zelensky has stated that this is a red line he won't cross. I'm of the opinion that for Russia, freezing the conflict is a red line they won't cross. They want a permanent peace and they're not going to relinquish all or even most of the territories they've captured. So... they're at an impasse. Zelensky can't recapture the lost lands but won't recognize them as Russian. Russia won't take a ceasefire or a truce because they lose their only leverage to force Ukraine to accept loss of territories. That leverage is continuing hostilities, loss of further territories, further death and destruction. This is why I think negotiations are failing. And I think Russia's messaging to Trump is that he needs to get Ukraine to accept loss of territory. If Trump can force that, we might see an end to this war. If he can't, maybe because Europe is willing to back Ukraine without America, then I suspect the war will continue until either direct involvement from western military forces brings it to the brink (or even into) a nuclear war, or until Ukraine suffers some sort of large scale collapse, and western forces move in to secure parts of Ukraine while Russia grabs others. Other factors are at play too, Russia might suffer some sort of internal instability, possibly the death of Putin. This could change their direction. Then again it might mean nothing. A larger war with China or some sort of global economic crisis could undermine Europe's ability to support Ukraine and could force the sides to negotiate. Zelensky could die, or be deposed, and a new Ukrainian leader comes in willing to recognize loss of territory in exchange for peace. But barring any force majeure events, I think things will go down one of the two paths I described above.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group
20250413_205814.jpg

Many in the west are hoping for Russian internal politic changes that will make them sign peace accord. However now even the pro Ukraine NYT are provide Ukraine opposition to give idea on their (Ukraine opposition) take bigger role on peace talks.

This shown even some in West that ussualy back Zelensky, are increasingly unhappy with him. Giving his opposition chances to 'rise' on usually his regime backers pro media in US, is significant change tone. Poroshenko is not what can be call pro Russia whatsoever, bur even he now talk on smoothing peace negotiations. For me this is shown how even 'Democrat' side in US are getting impatient with Zelensky.
 

Fredled

Active Member
@Feanor I mostly agree with what you wrote in your last post. Except that I don't believe that recognising lost territories as Russian would put an end to the invasion in eastern Europe. Even if we give him the 4 full oblasts in Ukraine. He has so many demands on top of the four oblasts that it's impossible to trust him or to think that he will stop after that. At the very least, Ukrainians don't believe it and don't trust a single word from him. Estonians don't believe it neither.
 

Fredled

Active Member
Future German Chacelor Freidrich Mertz is ready to give Taurus missiles to Ukraine in coordination with allies (and if the latter agree). He also said openly that the Taurus could be used against the Kerch Bridge.

IMO, it's a strong warning to Putin that if he doesn't stop his war now, he may lose the Kerch Bridge, his crown jewel.
It also answers the question "what can Ukraine offer to Russia in a negotiated peace". And there could be other things that Ukraine could "offer" in a negotiation thanks to the Taurus.

armyrecognition.com said:
The Taurus carries a 481-kilogram tandem MEPHISTO warhead, designed to breach hardened structures through a pre-charge followed by a main penetrator charge. This warhead features layer-counting and void-sensing technologies, enabling detonation at optimal points within buried or fortified targets. Its guidance system combines inertial navigation, GPS, terrain-referenced navigation, and a terminal infrared seeker, ensuring high-precision targeting even in GPS-denied environments.
link
Tandem MEPHISTO warhead! :oops: I'm always amazed by the names given to military devices...
 

Fredled

Active Member
Is US a participant is this war?
As long as they don't have US army soldiers inside Ukraine, they are not. Providing weapons is not "participating" because Ukraine can choose not to use them. The same way, Iran is not participating despite providing Shaheds or China despite providing just anything else. North Korea however is participating.

But my point was not this. My point was that the US won't send any soldier to the Coalition of the Willing force deployed in Ukraine after the ceasefire. That's why it sounds strange that they comment on how and where this force should be deployed. Why are they telling others what to do?
 

Fredled

Active Member
Many in the west are hoping for Russian internal politic changes that will make them sign peace accord. However now even the pro Ukraine NYT are provide Ukraine opposition to give idea on their (Ukraine opposition) take bigger role on peace talks.

This shown even some in West that ussualy back Zelensky, are increasingly unhappy with him. Giving his opposition chances to 'rise' on usually his regime backers pro media in US, is significant change tone. Poroshenko is not what can be call pro Russia whatsoever, bur even he now talk on smoothing peace negotiations. For me this is shown how even 'Democrat' side in US are getting impatient with Zelensky.
I don't think that hopes of a regime change in Russia are that high. Everybody would like it. Only wannabe experts in click bait YouTube videos talk about that. Not serious sources. It's been ten years that is was rumoured that Putin is terminally ill. If he dies, odds are high that somebody as bad or worse will rule Russia. If it's Medvediev, it will be worse. The guy has already said that he was ready to use nukes. Only ignorants would hope that Putin died, unless it's in a coup to reverse the catastrophic situation. A coup is unfortunately unlikely.

Hoping that the Ukrainian opposition or Poroshenko will be able to change the position of Ukraine in regard to negotiations is also wrong. The opposition has not shown clearly such desire, thought an opposition politician may have said that he will better in this regards. That's what a politician always say.
But, more importantly, neither the opposition nor the majority can enact a secession of territory, a secession of underground mineral resources or an interruption of the military defence operations against the invader without a vote in the parliament. It would probably require an absolute majority (not just 51%).

@Feanor Secession of territory would require a change in the constitution and this is not something that can be decided by one person or by a small group of persons. It's not something that can be promised in a negotiation because there is no guarantee that it will be voted by the parliament and accepted by all the legal bodies (Supreme Court or equivalent if any).
 
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Ananda

The Bunker Group
Hoping that the Ukrainian opposition or Poroshenko will be able to change the position of Ukraine in regard to negotiations is also wrong.
It is Poroshenko himself that state Opposition involvement will smoothed the peace talks if they are in the Government. Are you Poroshenko ? Unless Poroshenko talking otherwise then you can say the Opposition have no desire for smoother peace process under them. Right now your post on this again is only another your wishy wishy.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Update.

Sumy area.

Russia forces have pushed past Guevo and are approaching Gornal'. Inside Sumy Russian forces have entered Loknya, south of Basovka and have taken all of Zhuravka, as well as the area around it. In Belgorod region Ukrainian forces have been pushed out of Demidovka and Popovka.


Russian UCAV strikes in the Kursk region border area. Reportedly this is the Orion-S at work.


Russian UCAV strike on a Ukrainian Stryker near Malaya Rybitsa, Sumy region.


Russian UCAV strikes on Ukrainian MBTs in the Belgorod border area.


Near Demidovka a Ukrainian M1 Abrams was destroyed. It's got a robust drone cage. A Ukrainian ARV attempted to pull it out but also got hit.


A Ukrainian M109 with a drone cage burns, Sumy region.


A destroyed Ukrainian T-64BV in the Sumy area.


A knocked out Marder captured by Russian forces in Kursk region. The condition of the vehicle is unclear.


Russian forces observing a destroyed Abrams in Kursk region. Unclear if we've seen this one before.


Two disabled Ukrainian vehicles in Sumy region, an M113 in the lake, and a knocked Marder by the side of the road.


Russian Pantsyr fires in the Belgorod border area, allegedly on a Ukrainian UAV.


We have confirmation a Ukrainian F-16 was downed in Sumy region, possibly by Russian air defenses, though other theories are being voiced. The pilot is KIA.


Ukrainian cross-border strikes in Belgorod region hit a civilian truck and some houses.


Russian D-20 operations in the border area, Akhmat volunteers.


A Russian Sarmat-3 armored car seen in Sudzha. They were previously seen with VDV units in the area.


Kharkov area.


Russian forces have inched forward in Volchansk again.


Aerial shots of the ruins of Volchansk.


Kupyansk area.

Russian forces are continuing to bite off pieces on the left shore, but no major gains.


It appears Ukraine attempted a counter-attack near Kupyansk, unsuccessfully. We have 2 MRAPs that might be those Cougars we saw with Ukrainian SoF, one MRAP (Oshkosh M-ATV? MaxxPro? hard to tell at that angle). We also have what might be a Mader, and plenty of Ukrainian KIAs. The Russian source claims these were Ukrainian SoF. Warning footage of corpses.


Oskol front.

Russian forces have recaptured Nadiya and taken a number of positions around the village, expanding the area of control beyond what it was before the counter-attack. In the Peschanoe salient area Russian forces have recaptured parts of Kolesnikovka. Across the river Russian forces have contested Kamyanka.


Across the Zherebets Russian forces are now flanking Novoe and Novomihailovka. The connection with Makeevka has also expanded. This area in general has been one of Russia's bigger gains. South of Yampolovka Russian forces have bit off another large chunk and reached Torskoe from the north.


Russian drones hit a T-64BV. Next to it is a knocked out M113. This is inside Torskoe.


Seversk salient.

Russian forces have taken more country-side west and south-west of Belogorovka.


Russian bombs landing in Seversk.


Chasov Yar.

Russian forces have taken a couple of areas north of the center of Chasov Yar. Meanwhile Ukrainian forces have recaptured a position in the south of the town.


Russian drone strike on a Ukrainian 2S1 near Vasyutinskoe village, north of Chasov Yar, east of Kramatorsk.


Toretsk.

Russian forces have expanded their area north-east of Toretsk. They're not approaching Dachnoe. Interestingly enough Ukrainian forces are still inside northern Toretsk from the east while Russian forces have taken the northern extremes of Toretsk on the western side, and pushed beyond the town. And we have a small coutner-attack into nothern Toretsk from the west by Ukraine. Both of the central refuse mounds are under Russian control.


Russian strikes on several Ukrainian M113s around Toretsk. Note the terrain, the refuse mound seen in one of the clips. It's unclear if this is another Ukrainian attempt to re-enter the town or if the footage is a few weeks old from previous Ukrainian attempts.


Destroyed Ukrainian logistics vehicles are piling up on the road northward to Konstantinovka. So far Russian drone control over the road isn't total. But if Russian forces keep it up, Ukraine may be forced back again.

 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Avdeevka area.

Russian forces have taken Kalinovo, and a large number of fields between Kalinovo and Panteleymonovka. Panteleymonovka and Valentinovka are under Russian control.


Pokrovsk area.

On the eastern side of the Pokrovsk area Russian forces have taken Yelizavetovka and have reversed that last Ukrainian counter-attack near Zelenoe Pole. Russian forces have also taken most of Lisovka.


Apparently a failed Ukrainian counter-attack in the Pokrovsk area. We have two Pbv-302s, a couple of armored cars (MRAPs?), and a vehicle I can't ID.


Russian strikes west of Pokrovsk, one hits a MaxxPro near Kotlino, the other possibly a Caesar howitzer in the eastern part of Dnepropetrovsk region.


Russian drones hit either one or two Ukrainian M109s. I can't tell if it's the same one, the video description claims it's two separate cannons.


Russian UR-77 mineclearing operations, Pokrovsk area.


Russian gliding bombs landing in Pokrovsk.


Dnepropetrovsk axis.

Russian forces continue to push west across a wide front around the villages of Bogdanovka, Zaporozhye, and have entered Troitskoe.


Velikaya Novoselka area.

Russian forces have grabbed a chunk of fields north of Razliv, pushing towards Bogatyr. East of Shevchenko Russian forces have taken two fields, evening out their lines.


Russian strikes on Ukrainian vehicles in the area of Bogatyr'. We have what I think is a Kozak armored car, and an MBT that burns.


Zaporozhye front.


Russian forces have pushed forward north-west of Lobkovoe, and in the fields south-east of Kamyanka.


Dnepr front.

Russian drones hit a Ukrainian AMX-10RC, Kherson region.


Allegedly Ukraine hit two ambulances in Novaya Kahovka.


Strikes.

Russia hit Kiev, targets include the Antonov hangar, where possibly the An-196 drone is being produced. Links represent two different strikes.


Russia hit a gathering of Ukrainian military personnel in Sumy, at a local state university. Reportedly it was an awards ceremony for the 117th TerDef Bde. Significant collateral damage is reported. We also have at least one pickup with a Ukrainian army tactical marking on it lending credence to the reports.


Other strikes in Sumy also occurred.


Russian strikes in Kharkov.


Russian Iskander strike in Dnepropetrovsk reportedly targeting the Biosphere factory, allegedly involved in drone production.


Russian strikes landing in Odessa.


Russian Gerber decoy in the sights of a Ukrainian interceptor drone.


During a recent wave of Ukrainian strikes something helicopter-shaped was shot down in Naro-Fominsk, Moscow region. It may be a friendly fire incident, or it maybe a Ukrainian rotary drone.


Ukrainian strikes hit Kursk, the city. At least one multi-story apartment building was damaged. One civilian is reported dead.


A new Russian UAV interceptor drone in service. It reportedly has a thermal camera.


Interesting bits.

We have our first confirmed destruction of DPRK sourced Koksan howitzers, sources disagree about whether this is Donetsk or Kursk region. We've seen these systems hit before, but this is definite destruction. Recently a train full of these was seen in Crimea.


An intersting shot of a Russian Tunguska firing, while covered by a drone picket. In other words, the SHORAD needs SHORAD to survive.


More footage of Russian SHORAD pulled from old warships and apparently repurposed for drone defense on land. We have AK-630s, AK-230s, and 2M-3M.


An interesting looking Russian 2S5. It has a robust drone cage, and extra armor kits that belong on a BMP. Russian production of these kits seems to be proceeding at a high volume allowing for them to be used beyond their initial intended purpose.


Russian Gibka-S spotted in the war zone. It's a rare piece of Russian SHORAD, basically wasn't in service pre-war.


There are reports that on Feb 22 2025 a Ukrainian Sea King crashed in Nikolaev region. The crash was at low speed and at low altitude right after taking off. The helicopter is severely damaged but the crew survived, wounded.


Ukraine has started using German HF-1 drones in Ukraine.


Ukraine's 56th Motorized Bde doing anti-drone training with shotguns.


Ukraine's 4th National Guard Bde with a Romanian M1981 howitzer.


Ukraine's 81st Airmobile Bde also received Strykers.


A Japanese Morooka PC-065B tracked transporter has been spotted in Ukrainian service.


Reportedly US personnel are withdrawing from the logistical hub in Poland that supports Ukraine's war effort.


Reportedly the Czech republic has handed over all of their available T-72M1s to Ukraine.

 

KipPotapych

Well-Known Member
As long as they don't have US army soldiers inside Ukraine, they are not. Providing weapons is not "participating" because Ukraine can choose not to use them.
What about providing weapons and targets (including General Staff), correcting fire, etc? If China did that for the Russian forces, would they not be “participating”? If Russians provided the same “assistance” to the opposing forces in Iraq, Syria, etc, would the United States see that as kosher and not “participating”?

To further develop this idea, if the equipment provided to Ukraine was fully automated, not requiring a Ukrainian “to push the button”, would that change the degree of involvement?

Americans don’t have troops inside Yemen either. If it was only Reapers conducting strikes, would that mean that there is no “participation” of the Americans?

At the same time, there are “American troops” inside Ukraine, as was outlined in that NYT article from a couple of/few weeks ago. So what defines “participation”?

Why are they telling others what to do?
Well, I believe the most trivial answer is because Ukraine wants them to.


11 years and 5 days ago, Avakov (then acting and future Interior Minister of Ukraine) said that this will be resolved within 48 hours:

Ukrainian acting Interior Minister Arsen Avakov said Wednesday that the separatist protests in Ukraine’s eastern region would be resolved within 48 hours – either through negotiations or the use of force.


Here we are over 11 years later…

PS Avakov is an interesting character. Those interested in Ukrainian politics in general and pre- and post-coup in particular would likely be interested in this read:



With oil prices down, Russia is reducing costs (and risk exposure) by using “legit” means of sea transport, while increasing costs for others: cost of shipping the US oil to Europe went up by 50% in the past month, while shipping Colombian oil to Texas is 85% higher than a month ago. The article is behind a paywall:


This is also an interesting observation:

Shadow fleet owners’ purchases of older ships had already taken several hundred vessels out of the regular market worldwide, while rising exports of Kazakhstan’s CPC grade from the Black Sea have further boosted demand. Shipments soared to 1.7 million barrels a day in February and remained around that level last month. That increased the demand for tankers by about four ships each month. And with more of that crude heading on long voyages to Asia — 28% in February and March, compared with just 5% in December — those ships are tied up for longer.

I will let you make your own conclusions here.
 
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