Indonesian Aero News

[Ananda]

Indonesia have use bespoke Boeing platform before as MPA. However have to workout to include Boeing. Thus the question if this DI and Havelsan working out for AEW&C, will that also involved platform builder ?

With Boeing already invest heavily on E7, the most potential work out I can think off is build bespoke E7 derivative like the one Boeing did with India. Question always the budget availability. Can they afford E7 derivative if most budget has to share with F-15EX? Which is why I still doubt they can afford E7 derivative on that condition.

However using Business Jet platform, can be more workable if F-15EX still in calculation. Off course it is different thing if the allocation of overseas procurement increase from USD 25 Bio to USD 35 bio on 25-29 term. However I have big doubt they can allocated that considering regional-global economy situation. They are too much economics stability reserve needed, considering the market situation now.

 

[ChestnutTree]

What I meant by an E7 derivative is taking the Havelsan equipment and placing it onto an Airbus airframe. AIUI Airbus is currently willing to do more business with Indonesia, and having an A330 based platform would benefit considering it's ubiquity in Indonesian state and commercial services.

 

[Ananda]

Ahh, I see what you mean. Still using Airbus platform can be more expensive then using Business Jet like Bombardier platform. Besides Bombardier or Embrear business jets platform I believe, has been used more as specialized platform then Airbus Airliners.

I do believe that means they (Bombardier or Embrear) has more exposure then Airbus on working out their Jet Airliners toward military specialized platform. Airbus military more often use their turboprop platform (like CN 235 or 295) as specialized platforms.

For me, even though in theory workable, however using A320 or A330 as platform for AEW&C can potentially be much more expensive, as no one has been used that before. Thus the changes and integration costs can be more expensive, as Airbus has to get involved with designing the bespoke configuration. If want to use bespoke configuration, then better use Business Jets that has been turned before as platform for AEW&C. That's means either Bombardier or Embrear business jets.

Using new platform that's has not been used before for AEW&C, usually means the platform builder need also prepared new adjustments. That's usually means more costs relative to platform that has been design with that kind adjustment before.

 

[swerve]

I honestly think something like an E7 derivative could work, bonus points if they can convince Airbus to supply an A330 airframe to integrate it.

A330 is very big for an AEW aircraft. E-7 is the biggest current western production or development AEW aircraft, & it's based on the Boeing 737. Globaleye is built on the Bombardier Global 6000 or 6500, & the G550 CAEW is just about in production, despite the G550 no longer being made, with a couple of new ones being built for Italy using G550s Italy bought a couple of years ago.

The E-7's systems may be too big & heavy for a bizjet, needing a 737 or A320, but I think that's about the biggest that would be sensible. Next step down is Globaleye - though Erieye could be on other aircraft. SAAB has shown itself to be very good at fitting Erieye to multiple platforms. I can imagine a Gulfstream 650 to G800 being modified for AEW, perhaps by the Israelis. Then comes the latest E-2, & the smallest currently offered western AEW type I know of is the IAI P600 AEW, with the ELTA ELW-2096 on an Embraer Praetor 600 bizjet.

 

[Ananda]

https://amp.kontan.co.id/news/perusahaan-setiawan-djodi-borong-5-pesawat-n219-dari-pt-dirgantara-indonesia-ptdi

Indonesian Trading company sign agreement for 5 N219 which aim to be use by Congo Government. Another deal with Belgium based trading company for 2 CN235 for Congo AF. I don't know the detail of the contract, but using trading company usually done as 'quasy' trade financing agreement.

The trading company usually can provide lease or installment scheme to the end users. Usually it is against end users with low or even zero credit rating. Either way it is part of export financing scheme, although can be considered as indirect scheme.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

A330 is very big for an AEW aircraft. E-7 is the biggest current western production or development AEW aircraft, & it's based on the Boeing 737. Globaleye is built on the Bombardier Global 6000 or 6500, & the G550 CAEW is just about in production, despite the G550 no longer being made, with a couple of new ones being built for Italy using G550s Italy bought a couple of years ago.

The E-7's systems may be too big & heavy for a bizjet, needing a 737 or A320, but I think that's about the biggest that would be sensible. Next step down is Globaleye - though Erieye could be on other aircraft. SAAB has shown itself to be very good at fitting Erieye to multiple platforms. I can imagine a Gulfstream 650 to G800 being modified for AEW, perhaps by the Israelis. Then comes the latest E-2, & the smallest currently offered western AEW type I know of is the IAI P600 AEW, with the ELTA ELW-2096 on an Embraer Praetor 600 bizjet.

Dassault offers the Falcon 2000 for Maritime Reconnaissance Aircraft tasks, and soon Dassault will deliver the Falcon 8X Archange to the Armée de l'air et de l'espace for SIGINT/EW. Combined with the fact that Saab could fit the Ericsson Erieye on the smaller Saab 340, i think it should be possible for Dassault to modify the Falcon 8X into an AEW&C version.


And here a nice video for the C-130 Hercules lovers.
Hercules TNI AU di SGS24 (youtube.com)

 

[swerve]

The only possible problem with the Falcon 8X that I can think of is that it's a trijet, & maybe having a radar mounted above the fuselage, directly in front of one engine, might cause problems. Or maybe not - I don't know. If it is a problem then the Falcon 6X is available. American engines, though. Any of them would be easily big enough, though a bigger aircraft still should allow more on-board operators & longer endurance & range.

But if someone wants more & isn't in a hurry, the Falcon 10X is under development.

 

[Ananda]

Frenchie Salesman Channel talk about his latest update on Rafale order. As he is after all the salesman, off course on the case of Indonesian Rafale package he got inside news.

Thus basically he say all 42 Rafale will be in F4 configuration with 30 single seat and 12 tandem seat, and confirmation that the package also include 2 Falcon 8X as VIP fleet.

Later part on his video he is bragging why Rafale and Dasault better choice then F-16 and LM. He even talk and spread rumours (something that I heard from other sources), the plan upgrade for all 34 F-16 toward V standard will be in doubt due to LM less supportive on providing acceptable deals. He also brag that Falcon 8X will be better choice as VIP plane then Boeing BBJ that already choose from SBY era as Presidential plane.

There're rumours that I heard from other sources on potential simplification on asset procurement types, due to Finance People assessment for better financing packages. Either way so far Frenchie Salesman still working hard to make that simplification choices will benefit French or only one or two Partner.

That's why he spreading talks in media, on negativity of Turkification. He is fighting on public perspective and lobbying behind door for slice of pies that rumours being insisted by finance people to be simplified but with larger allotment for better financing costs.

Still it is Indonesia procurement process, which are chaotics and full lobbying. So the results can be sanity check or just simply sanity loose.

 

[Ananda]

Below video (from Bali's media) shown static display in Bali Airshow open today. There're 2 F-35 which belong to RAAF. Some UAV also shown in Static display, but most in static display belong to Indonesian Military and PT. DI products.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

Interesting that in 14:50 the video shown Aeroflot A350-900 being prepared to take off back to Moscow. Opening direct flight between Bali to Moscow.

Add:

Video on preparation of Bali Airshow, taken yesterday. MBDA and Boeing shown represents by relative big booth. At least for this level of Airshow.

 

[Ananda]

Indonesian Air Force orders four Airbus H145 helicopters

The Indonesian Air Force has placed an order for four Airbus H145 helicopters as part of its training modernisation programme. The order was announced during the Bali International Airshow taking place this week.

www.airbus.com

Bali Airshow as expected with any Airshow of this kind, will have some transaction announcement. Today in opening day, Airbus and DI sign agreement for delivery of four H145 to TNI-AU. Already heard the rumours on the deal for TNI-AU new training helicoptera, thus this is the confirmation on that.

 

[Ananda]

Drone UAV DID 3.11 Buatan Anak Bangsa Punya Fitur Canggih Berbahan Bakar Pertamax - Jawa Pos

Drone tersebut dilengkapi dengan berbagai sensor canggih agar mampu menjalankan berbagai misi dengan efektif dan efisien.

www.jawapos.com

Bali Airshow also become show case place for PT. LEN as principal company in Indonesia SOE MIC. They shown case N219 and another prototype of MALE UAV. The UAV capable for civilian.and combat functions.

I don't have problem they developing another MALE UAV, However this shown another problem on Indonesian RnD Bureaucracy. After Black Eagle BRIN debacle, now they decide to take over development of UAV by creating new ones, instead take over Black Eagle UAV program.

Well they said this is going control by commercial entities now, and considering how mess up Indonesian RnD Bureaucracy, it is already the right move. Will see how those SOE going to resolve this.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Indonesian Air Force orders four Airbus H145 helicopters

The Indonesian Air Force has placed an order for four Airbus H145 helicopters as part of its training modernisation programme. The order was announced during the Bali International Airshow taking place this week.

www.airbus.com

Bali Airshow as expected with any Airshow of this kind, will have some transaction announcement. Today in opening day, Airbus and DI sign agreement for delivery of four H145 to TNI-AU. Already heard the rumours on the deal for TNI-AU new training helicoptera, thus this is the confirmation on that.

1. Is this Bali Airshow a one time airshow, or a replacement for the Indonesian Air Shows like the ones of 1986 and 1996?
2. In my opinion weird that they choose the EC145 as a traininghelicopter, it is even larger, heavier and more expensive than the EC135. The AS555 light twin turboshaft would be more suitable, and is already operated by TNI-AD.

Drone UAV DID 3.11 Buatan Anak Bangsa Punya Fitur Canggih Berbahan Bakar Pertamax - Jawa Pos

Drone tersebut dilengkapi dengan berbagai sensor canggih agar mampu menjalankan berbagai misi dengan efektif dan efisien.

www.jawapos.com

Bali Airshow also become show case place for PT. LEN as principal company in Indonesia SOE MIC. They shown case N219 and another prototype of MALE UAV. The UAV capable for civilian.and combat functions.

I don't have problem they developing another MALE UAV, However this shown another problem on Indonesian RnD Bureaucracy. After Black Eagle BRIN debacle, now they decide to take over development of UAV by creating new ones, instead take over Black Eagle UAV program.

Well they said this is going control by commercial entities now, and considering how mess up Indonesian RnD Bureaucracy, it is already the right move. Will see how those SOE going to resolve this.

Hopefully Indonesia will have a decent UAV in serial production and in operation before 2050. I am totally sick of those cancellations of unfinished projects and all the time switching over to new projects.
In the end we still have nothing if we keep doing this.

 

[Ananda]

this Bali Airshow a one time airshow, or a replacement for the Indonesian Air Shows like the ones of 1986 and 1996?

Well seems they're planning it more frequent, but who knows. Even Mandalika motor race now have difficulty to pay fee, and that's got more government support. So far that's seems already more on line as frequent event is IndoDefense.

H145 seems being choose as dual function for trainers and light utilities. The choice more shown how strong Airbus lobby with DI.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Well seems they're planning it more frequent, but who knows. Even Mandalika motor race now have difficulty to pay fee, and that's got more government support. So far that's seems already more on line as frequent event is IndoDefense.

H145 seems being choose as dual function for trainers and light utilities. The choice more shown how strong Airbus lobby with DI.

I see. Maybe they want to replace the NBO-105 bit by bit. In that case the EC-145 is an understandable choice, after all it is based on the BK117, which was intended as a replacement for the MBB Bo-105.

 

[Ananda]

Indonesia to take first A400M in late 2025

Airbus Defence & Space expects Indonesia's first of two A400M tactical transports to be delivered by late 2025.

www.flightglobal.com

Another announcement from Bali Airshow. This time Airbus military also inform the first A400M for Indonesia will come early next year. Both A400M for TNI-AU will have dual function transport and tankers.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Indonesia to take first A400M in late 2025

Airbus Defence & Space expects Indonesia's first of two A400M tactical transports to be delivered by late 2025.

www.flightglobal.com

Another announcement from Bali Airshow. This time Airbus military also inform the first A400M for Indonesia will come early next year. Both A400M for TNI-AU will have dual function transport and tankers.

If i am not wrong they are saying that Indonesia will get its first of two A400M tactical transports in late 2025, with the second one later in the beginning of 2026.

Well, it will be the right moment to retire the single KC-130B after more than a half century of loyal service.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Drone UAV DID 3.11 Buatan Anak Bangsa Punya Fitur Canggih Berbahan Bakar Pertamax - Jawa Pos

Drone tersebut dilengkapi dengan berbagai sensor canggih agar mampu menjalankan berbagai misi dengan efektif dan efisien.

www.jawapos.com

Bali Airshow also become show case place for PT. LEN as principal company in Indonesia SOE MIC. They shown case N219 and another prototype of MALE UAV. The UAV capable for civilian.and combat functions.

I don't have problem they developing another MALE UAV, However this shown another problem on Indonesian RnD Bureaucracy. After Black Eagle BRIN debacle, now they decide to take over development of UAV by creating new ones, instead take over Black Eagle UAV program.

Well they said this is going control by commercial entities now, and considering how mess up Indonesian RnD Bureaucracy, it is already the right move. Will see how those SOE going to resolve this.

When i saw these two UAVs, i thought they were just two mock-ups not capable to fly. So i was really surprised they could fly. After all those years the Elang Hitam UAV never got its first flight, right?
UAV Terbaru Produksi PT LEN - YouTube
Those things beneath the wings are probably Roketsan MAM-C models.

According to your article "UAV DID 3.11 merupakan pesawat terbang tanpa awak yang dikembangkan PT LEN Industri (Persero) melalui joint development sejak 2022 dengan partner strategis dari Aero Technology Industry Thailand (ATIL). " so i hope it is really a joint development and not just a licence production. Unlike the Elang Hitam UAV, this UAV came suddenly out of nowhere in the mass-media. I never heard of it until you posted your article here.

 

[Ananda]

so i hope it is really a joint development and not just a licence production.

In my opinion what LEN doing with this UAV is similar in nature with what Pindad did with Anoa and Komodo armoured vehicle that base on Renault VAB and Sherpa design, or PAL with their Makasar class LPD that base on DaeSun LPD design. They buy the basic license and doing enough modification to call it their own.

Personally for UAV this kind, I'm more interested in how far LEN involvement with sensors and UAV remote sensing and controls environment. LEN is after all electronic manufacturer, and airframe can be sources even by domestic UAV airframers outside DI. For UAV those things are more important in my opinion then the airframe.

The Frenchie salesman yapping in his X talking about SOE companies rebranding outside design as their own. Well that salesman forgot many MIC basically also doing the same thing. Buy license from others, and make modification toward them and call it their own. So nothing wrong by buying someone else license.

 

[Ananda]

Indonesia troubled by F-35s and real-time data transmission

bulgarianmilitary.com

I know Bulgarian Military not what you can call highly reliable source, but currently this article being circulate in Indonesian forum Coincide with one Enthusiasts X that work with LM Indonesia. The tweet basically saying LM now work and lobby for F-35 package that aim to 'cut' F-15EX deal.

All so far in my opinion very 'rumours' base and coincidence situation. However as I have put before in Indonesian threads, rumours in Indonesia procurement practice can be unfounded but also can shown serious lobby actually happening.

For one thing the deal for 36 F-15EX (that's already being approve by US DSCA) have similar value with 48 F-35 that the article talk. What the article insinuating that the Indonesian that shown preference toward F-15EX for concern on preference operational autonomy compare to F-35.

Seems that this is why the Frenchie Salesman also yapping in his X and You Tube on F-35 compatibility toward Indonesian operations environment and autonomy of F-35 operation environment toward TNI-AU readiness. Frenchie salesman not hiding his intentions to cut both US aircraft deals, for more Rafale outside current 42 order.

Whatever the result, whether the budget goes to F-15EX, KF-21, F-35 or more Rafale, this is just shown the next batch of TNI-AU fighters is not near a done deal yet. Still coincidentally also in Bali Airshow, Boeing pavilion did not shown F-15EX but only their civilian Airliners. Domestics Airshow ussualy where the manufacturers shown potential order from Domestics market of Government. So, shown everything still fluid.

 

[ChestnutTree]

Seems that this is why the Frenchie Salesman also yapping in his X and You Tube on F-35 compatibility toward Indonesian operations environment and autonomy of F-35 operation environment toward TNI-AU readiness

Tbh I'm inclined to agree with him on this front. I don't doubt that we don't have the money to do it if we do the usual cutting and re-allocation of the defense budget, nor would we be able to operate it given some time for integration. Rather I have zero faith in the Indonesian government's ability to maintain OPSEC of something that highly classified.