Indonesia: 'green water navy'

[Ananda]

Indonesia and France Discuss Key Details on Scorpène Evolved Submarines - Naval News

Indonesian and French officials convened, to discuss the construction and operational support for two Scorpène Evolved submarines that the Indonesian Navy (TNI AL) will operate.

www.navalnews.com

NG and PAL have discussion on production detail scheme for the two Scorpene Evo. Seems they will not wait for the first sub to finish, thus they will conducting staggered start of construction for both submarine in the same facilities simulatanously.

In my previous posts I put talk from couple years even from my understanding from 2021, on discussion and offer from TKMS to refurbishment not only DSME 209-1400 Nagapasa class but also ex Brazil 209-1400 Tupi Class. Further digging, seems the offer related to TKMS offer for 214-1800. My understanding TKMS will provide supervision to help PAL facility for full 209-1400 line to basically modified Nagapasa class and refurbishment even rebuild ex Brazil Tupi Class. However the 214-1800 will still build in TKMS facility.

Seems as MinDef and PAL preference goes to NG, and NG will be the partner to enhance PAL submarine facility. For that it is rumours (which Naval News also put), NG then will also help PAL on modification for Nagapasa class.

Thus the talk on Interim Submarine then now increasingly shown it will be done by overseas Yard. Considering with PAL and NG fully committed for Scorpene building (potential could be 2+2), and also potential modification of Nagapasa class.

Then the question who will be able to provide 2 or even 4 Submarines with 3 years ? Budget wise also need to consider as rumours the cost that MinDef wants is USD 300-350, something that fall in ball park of DSME 209-1400. This I heard from finance people source that say MoF only agree USD 600 and potentially up to USD 800 for 2 interim submarine.

With that costs range (unless being add), seems eventough it is being talk (as article put) that Fincantieri, TKMS and even Turkish yard already offering, I have suspicion that either DSME (now Hanwha Ocean) or Chinese yard that can meet the budget range.

Interesting development, whether getting refurbished second hand 209-1400 or new ones (which potentially) can be Chinese. I put the Chinese can be a surprise candidate yard, not only on budget price (as they want to cut margin for export order as shown in Pakistan and Thailand case), but also the speed of their yard capacities.

 

[Ananda]

Better video for the launching of second OPV-90 # 392. However I put the video, as in latter part, Navy Chief talk something that I already suspect. For TNI-AL, eventough this vessels call OPV, but operational wise it is treated as Light Frigate which similar as Corvette.

The vessels will have weapon and sensors systems to find threat from Aerial, Surface, Underwater and ECM. Thus clearly it's OPV in name only. The vessels will be sloted to equip new 3rd Fleet in Eastern Indonesia.

391 being name KRI Raja Haji Fisabillah, while 392 being name KRI Lukas Rumkorem.

 

[swerve]

What air defences will they have?

 

[tonnyc]

What air defences will they have?

If you are asking about surface-air missiles, none.

Looking both old news articles and current ones, it's intended to have a 76 mm gun, 35 mm CIWS, 20 mm as secondaries, and decoy launchers. I speculate that the 76 mm gun would be the Leonardo Super Rapido, the 35 mm CIWS will end up being Escribano 30 mm Guardian, and the decoy launchers will be Terma's. All three companies were mentioned here as suppliers, but the exact models are not mentioned and are my educated guesses.

 

[Ananda]

For CIWS as in previous page, I'm speculating for Aselsan Gogdeniz 35mm as option against Rheimettal 35mm. @Sandhi Yudha put speculation on oto mellara twin 40mm, and base on Antara article below, seems Sandhi's right.

TNI AL perkuat armada dengan tambah dua Kapal perang

TNI AL memperkuat armada tempurnya dengan menambah dua kapal perang offshore patrol vessel (OPV) yang merupakan buatan dan dibangun oleh industri ...

www.antaranews.com

Laksamana Muhamad Ali juga mengatakan bahwa kapal ini dilengkapi dengan persenjataan canggih seperti meriam 76 mm dan 40 mm leonardo, meriam 20 mm escribano, serta sistem peluncur surface to surface missile roketsan.

Leonardo will got both primary and secondary (as CIWS), Escribano will got short range ship defense, and Roketsan will got SSM. As this quote come from TNI-AL Chief, I suspect the weapons configuration is final. Aselsan and Therma will got sensors and combat mgt system.

Thus the aerial defense then will come from primary and CIWS, Surface from SSM and primary gun plus Escribano 20mm as short range defense. Personally I'm still more intrigue with what's for underwater defense. Asside speculation for SEA light weight towed array sensors, light weight torpedoes also being speculate going to be fitted later on. However those underwater systems so far still being speculation.

SEA to Provide KraitSense ASW System for OPV Programme

www.sea.co.uk

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Thank you gentlemen, i just know now that TNI-AL will take the Escribano Sentinel 30 as secondary RWS. I never heard before of that brand.

I don't need to tell that taking an Oto Melara Marlin 30 mm or Aselsan SMASH 30 mm was a more logic choice. Not only those two companies are already involved in this project (you get one less supplier), but TNI-AL/BAKAMLA also already use those two 30 mm gun.
But hey, this is an Indonesian project.

 

[Ananda]

https://www.eme-es.com/sentinel-20/

If the quotes from Antara's right, this vessels will use Escribano 20mm not 30mm. Those using Oerlikon 20mm, which TNI-AL already use that for years. I suppose that's mean they can use similar ammo with Oerlikon 20mm that's already in inventory. Actually it is reasonable choice for logistics ammo pov.

As choices for Corvette design in replacing Parchim Corvettes, asside for this Sigma influence OPV-90, there are other Corvette program in another private yard PT. Karimun. The design around 12m shorter then this one, doesn't have hangar but having similar size helicopter deck. Also the design have capabilities to launch RHIB from stern and equip with SSM too. This design is enlargement of Presidential Ship KRI Bung Karno that replace Presidential Ship KRI Barakuda (which base from FPB-57).

Thus TNI-AL now work on Corvettes design (or call it Light Frigate) of 98m and 76m. Personally I prefer this OPV-90 design as Parchim replacement, as size do matter for capacity growth. Still I got feeling both designs can being work out as Parchim replacement.