The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread

KipPotapych

Well-Known Member
Part 2 of 2:

Reality is addressed in the very same posts. More:


Gunners with Kozachenko's 148th Separate Artillery Brigade and the 43rd Artillery Brigade, both in the Donetsk region, said they were desperate for more 155mm rounds for their Western cannons, which had given them an edge over Russia earlier in the war.

In my opinion, everyone could certainly do without the “positivity” and a sip of reality is in order. Isn’t it obvious? This also answers your question of why I assume everything he/they say is false.

Ukrainians know the corruption problems in their country anyway. And when they don't know, they imagine it. In the interview posted by Feonor, it's said that young potential recruits don't trust the commanders, don't trust the competence of military officers, and of course, don't trust politicians. Why those who are fighting are around 50 today? Because, IMO, that's the generation which benefited from the state, whereas the younger ones didn't.
Yes they know. I addressed it above.

It was the younger generation that came to the streets during Maidan and Maidan 2. Not the majority, but they did. Those who didn’t, have zero interest in going to the war to die (they are the majority). Those who did, either already went or think they have had enough, and fairly so. There was some talk here about the “draft dodgers” and whatnot in a negative light before. Personally, I would cross the border and load a plane to some “normal” country with not strictly conservative immigration policy (like Canada, for instance) to get the hell out in the very beginning. Why? Because I would be fairly certain that Ukraine had failed me and there is no future for me there and definitely and especially not for my kids. But that’s my personal view of it. When at least a third of the country feels the same way and acts on it, and about a quarter of them leave to Russia to begin with, that should tell you something, but who is listening?

Thre reason why Ukrainian defence line structure were no match with the Surovikin's line, is the lack of mine field and artillery barrage on the Ukrainian side.

Dragon teeth and anti-tank trenches can slow down the armour advance for a few hours, one day, at best. You can blow them out in ten minutes, then cross as if there were nothing.
I think the main reason it was no match to the Russian lines is because they didn’t build them. Simple as that. But there certainly were a lot of laughs about the Surovikin lines.

Why Ukrainians didn't have enough shells for a barrage? Part of the answer is given by Zelensky: Russian allies delivered what they promised (thought extremely poor quality, as the other fool said "quantity is a quality in itself") while Ukraine foreign partners didn't.

Zelensky is very clever in not singling out the US for they six month delay since Europe is also to blame for delays at least as bad.
That is because Ukrainian partners don’t owe a thing to Ukraine and are not getting paid for it. But also because, as I said above, we are not what we thought we were (and there was no such realization before we doubled down). Those who provided artillery ammunition to Russia, were likely paid handsomely and they have zero reasons to expect any repercussions from Ukraine.

The US is the last lifeline for Ukraine, so it would be dumb for Zelensky to say anything definitively negative about the aid delays.

Why Ukrainians didn't lay more land mines? I haven't read or hear any answer to this question but we can speculate.

They should have had the time to lay them since the attack was foreseen two weeks in advance, if not more.

Then, maybe, they didn't have enough mines. It's possible because you can more easily ask foreign donors for SAM against missiles killing civilians than anti-personel mines which are under ban by a convention of a number of countries. It wouldn't not be good advertising neither to ask for them nor to deliver them. (I think they recieved Claymore mines from the US but I'm not sure...) That's perhaps the only thing they can't get in big quantities from abroad.

The third reason is a political decision not to lay mines because it's a danger for the population. But that doesn't make much sens in this case.
The third reason is 100% not it, I couldn’t be more positive. I don’t know what the real reason is. Maybe they didn’t have the mines. Maybe the money went else where (like someone’s bank account). Complete lack of planning is as equally likely. Something else. I believe most partners would have zero issues with supplying the mines today or a month ago and much earlier than that (provided the quantities were there).

Again, in the current context, it doesn't seem credible. In fact, if enough powerful weapons do realy arrive and arrive on time the course of war can be reversed.

The problem is that there is two problems. First, the weapons and ammos should be available in big quantities. The quantities are not enough to reverse the clock. You won't defeat the Red Army with only a dozen of ATACMS.

Second problem is that Ukraine don't have enough qualified personel to operate the high tech weapons. that's why the official dispatching of US, French, Estonian and other instructors in Ukraine is more and more in the talks.
The main problem is that in all likelihood Ukraine will never again have as many assets at their disposal as they did in the spring/summer of 2023 (includes both, equipment and trained personnel).

The second problem is that Russians are not going to give up all of a sudden (even if the emperor suddenly leaves this world) and they will keep grinding and taking more territory until they meet their goals. Those goals are not static either. They took more territory than they lost last year. They already took significantly more this year than they lost last year (from the Reuters article cited above):

Russia has gained more territory in 2024 than it lost control of during Ukraine's much-hyped counteroffensive in the summer of 2023, according to Pasi Paroinen, an analyst with Black Bird Group, a Finnish-based volunteer group that analyses satellite imagery and social media content from the war.

Moscow's forces have claimed 654 sq km since the beginning of this year, outstripping the 414 sq km lost to Ukraine between June 1 and Oct. 1 last year, Paroinen said. Russia has gained 222 sq km of territory since only May 2, he added.


The trend is going to continue (and likely accelerate) in the foreseeable future. It is also not unlikely that all Ukrainian gains of 2023 will be reversed well before the end of this year. They will also probably get close enough to Kharkiv to be able to shell it at will (that would be a very significant development and a huge loss to Ukraine). But I am sure some more positive messaging and blaming others will do the trick and work it all out.
 

seaspear

Well-Known Member
It is easy to make claims of corrupt practices as if they were not being addressed ,but this article suggests its a long term pattern that is slowly being addressed ,I would suggest that the Ukrainian army has not been effected to the degree the Russian one has or even its society
Certainly polls suggest most Ukrainian believe corruption is rife under this government but at least there are attempts to root this out at high levels
 

Fredled

Active Member
@KipPotapych I don't think that corruption and embezzelment of funds is that bad in Ukraine that we should stop aid.
Of course Ukraine would not be in this situation, and would be far wealthier country, had they managed their resources more effectively and more equaly socialy. Putin wouldn't have attacked them in the first place. This is the third world syndrome. But our leaders in the West are not fool. They know all this and they check very closely what Ukrainians are doing with our money and our weapons. At the same time, as I said, there is also corruption in the West affecting the efficiency of the military aid. Especially since roughly 90% of the money given for Ukraine is spent in the donor country. So I don't think it's fair to accuse Zelensky or Ukrianians in general to steal your Canadian dollars.

I repeat it one more time: We promised Zelensky many things that we didn't deliver or that we will deliver with a delay of one year [sic today interview].
I'm sorry but, this is our fault. Not the fault of the Zelensky's regime.
If we didn't make promises we couldn't hold and if we told Ukrainians that they shouldn't rely on more military support than what we actually gave, their strategy would have been different and they would have spared more lives.
In the West every politician and their dogs competed to talk up the most about supporting the Ukrainian war effort, they all toured Bucha and expressed outrage at Russian war crimes, but when it was time to bring the real things to the front line, they always relied on others. Or waited for someone else to make the first step.
In this context, I fully understand Zelensky's frustration.

About emmigration: Yes, poeple always go were the money is and always support the state or entity which is giving them money (muslims are different, but that's off topic).
People will not fight to defend a country which didn't give them anything and where they lived in poverty.
Nevertheless, enough people joined the ranks on the Ukrainian armed forces to defend their country. And Putin's estimate that Ukraine was so corrupt and hopeless that it will fall within two weeks was wrong (and many in the West thought the same). Which means that things were bad but not that bad at the end of the day.

I was talking about so-called ethnic Russian in East Europe who support Russia. When you dig a little bit, one recieve a pension for having served in the Red Army (pension much higher than the local pension), the other works for Russian clients, and you understand that they basically follow the money. Those who work in England or Germany also despise their home country for the same reason.

It's difficult to know how the Ukrainians governments snce 2014 have figured that out or failed to. But if you want to list eveything that goes wrong in a country that failed to prevent an invasion, it will be endless. Not only for Ukraine. So I prefere to focus on positive developments rather than on blames, even though I know these things.

KipPotapych said:
The main problem is that in all likelihood Ukraine will never again have as many assets at their disposal as they did in the spring/summer of 2023
I don't think so. But, as always, it will depends wether the west fulfil their promises or not. If they do, Russians are toast, believe me. It depends on the political will of the Western leadershipt and of the capacity of their military industry. There are positive signs, but so far, it's not enough. So in the current state of affair, no, But I wouldn't say never.
 
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Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Update.

Kharkov front.

Combat action here continues at a high pace. Ukrainian losses in kit here are considerably higher then almost all other sections of the front combined, at least from the footage we're getting. Partly this is because many units are moving into the area, and the movement is getting spotted. Partly this is because Russia has concentrated many Lancets in this area for mass use. Meanwhile Russian forces have taken all of Volchansk north of the river, have taken Staritsy and Tihoe, and are either contesting or have taken Zybino. So far the eastern portion of the front here is firmly north of the river with no attempts to cross. The western portion seems to have reached some Ukrainian strong points on the high ground north of Liptsi and the advance is stalled.

One of the patterns that has emerged is that Russia appears to have much better UAV coverage over the battlespace here, leading to Ukrainian artillery and tanks routinely being watched as they move into position and then getting hit once they are parked and often quite well concealed. I don't know if this is a feature of increased UAS assets deployed here or of insufficient Ukrainian EW, maybe a little bit of both. Either way, Ukrainian artillery is having a bad month.


Ukrainian infantry falling back, engages someone, Volchansk.


Ukrainian infantry in combat in Volchansk. These are border guards allegedly attempting to break through to another group of their comrades who got cut off.


Smoke rising over Volchansk as the fighting continues.


Russian observers comment on footage of allegedly Ukrainian infantry dropping their weapons and abandoning their positions near Liptsy.


Russian soldiers in the hospital, Volchansk.


Footage out of Pletnevka, a village north of Volchansk, now under Russian control.


Russian soldier posing with a knocked out Kozak armored car, near Volchansk.


Russia hit another bridge, this one further east of Volchansk. Shaping operations continue. There are still not signs of Russian forces crossing the river, raising the question, is this it? Does Russia plan to push in Kharkov region and simply use the river as a logical stopping point?


The results of Ukrainian infantry getting caught in the woods by Russian thermobarics without prepared positions. Warning footage of corpses.


Russian loitering munition strikes on a pair of Ukrainian vehicles, allegedly Krab howitzers.


A Ukrainian MBT heading into Volchansk get immobilized by multiple FPV drone strikes and then finished off with a Lancet.


Ukrainian T-64B destroyed near Volchansk by an FPV drone.


Ukraine struck Russian forces with GLSDB munitions in Volchansk.


Two attempts to hit Polish Rosomak APCs, Kharkov area. I think both are unsuccessful.


Russian loitering munition hitting 2 Grads, Kharkov region.


Another Ukrainian something hit. The source claims an MLRS of unspecified type, which is reasonable given the massive explosion but certainly not definitive.


Two Ukrainian howitzers hit, one might be a Bogadna there is other is allegedly an M777 but we can't really make it out.


Another strike on a Bogdana howitzer.


3 Ukrainian MBTs getting hit by Russian loitering munition strikes.


Allegedly an M777 getting hit near Shesterovka.


Russian strike on a Kozak armored car near Liptsy. I can't help but wonder about the fate of the second vehicle, and the positions nearby.


Russia hits a Grad near Tsirkuny, allegedly using an S-300 missile.


Ukrainian RAK-12 on Humvee gets hit by a Russian loitering munition.


YPR-765 hit by a Russian FPV drone, Volchansk.


Russia striking construction equipment in Kharkov region that was allegedly being used to build fortifications.


Russian ODAB-1500 strike on a building allegedly housing Ukrainian soldiers in Volchansk. Use of 1500 kg bombs is becoming more common and there are gliding bomb variants of them.


Overrun Ukrainian positions in the northern part of Kharkov region.


Ukrainian observer looks at a RAK-12 MLRS pod from a destroyed system. Given the terrain this might be that Humvee based RAK-12 we saw get hit earlier.


Groups of Ukrainian POWs keep cropping up. It appears Ukraine is losing more POWs here then it has in the entire war for some time now. I'm counting at least 5 different groups in just these links.


There are reports that Russia suppressed Starlink and UAVs when they attacked Kharkov region.


Russia hit the HQ of the 302nd Air Defense Rgt in Kharkov region. It's a pre-war base, so it's unclear who is there currently if anyone.


Russian sources are claiming a downed Ukrainian jet, confirmation is lacking.


Ukrainian shelling and drone strikes of Belgorod region continues.


Battle group North with an armored Tornado-U truck.


It appears Ukraine is conducting a forced evacuation in some parts of Kharkov region, threatening non-compliers with arrest.

 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Oskol front.

Russian forces recently moved towards Berestovoe and contested the village. This is south of the bulge containing Tabaevka, Krahmal'noe, Kislovka, and Kotlyarovka, and amounts of a continued offensive in the same area.


Russian forces have restarted the advance west of Dibrova. Why here is unclear. In principle the target would be the same as the advances on Terny and Torskoe, get to the Zherebets river, and they've made some gains, but they have a much longer way to go from here.


Allegedly a Ukrainian MBT getting hit in the woods near Kremennaya. This might be related to recent Russian advances west of Dibrova.


Ukrainian fuel truck getting hit by a Russian loitering munition in the Kupyansk area.


Russian loitering munition hits a Ukrainian MBT near Kupyansk-Uzlovoy.


Ukrainian BMP gets a direct hit allegedly from Russian artillery (Krasnopol'?) near Kislovka.


Seversk salient.

There are reports from Russian sources claiming Belgorovka has been taken. However this is inaccurate. Belogorovka remains contested, though Russian forces have made some advances there. The real decision will be whether Russia can take the refuse mounds.


Russian shelling of Belogorovka conclusively demonstrating that the village remains at least partially in Ukrainian hands.


Russia's new Molniya (Lightning) loitering munition has shown up near Seversk. This isn't an FPV drone but more of a theoretical Lancet competitor project. It remains to be seen whether it gains much traction. So far we have it used against positions and a pickup truck. Not the toughest of targets.


Allegedly a PzH-2000 getting hit by a loitering munition near Seversk. It's an SP-howitzer for sure and it looks about right but I'm not certain it's a PzH-2000.


Chasov Yar.

Russian forces have broken into the canal neighborhood from two sides, and are enveloping it from a third. What's significant is that it appears Russian forces have gotten footholds in multiple multi-story buildings in the area.


Russian forces have made rapid gains throughout Klescheevka, and as the main supply route to this area now runs through some difficulat terrain, we can expect continued Russian pressure here.


Russian hangar tank rolling through Klescheevka. It's interesting that it does a big lap through the village setting smoke, allegedly for infantry to move in.


A destroyed BMP-2 in Chasov Yar. Note the remains of the hangar around it. Again I suspect many Ukrainian vehicles and personnel are lost in strikes against positions such as this, that are impossible to confirm even when BDA footage is available, unless someone takes ground-level footage after the strike. Russia regularly strikes various industrial structures claiming they're housing Ukrainian military assets.


Reports from Ukrainian personnel indicate that civilians are refusing to leave Chasov Yar, apparently waiting for Russia to come.


Avdeevka-Netaylovo area.

Russian forces have begun pushing eastward out of Keramik, closing the gap to the road. It's unclear if this is an attack of opportunity or there is an intent to take Aleksandropol'. There are also minor gains westward, reaching the Umanskoe-Netaylovo road. The road itself doesn't have much significance now, Russia holds both ends. Russian forces have taken all of Netaylovo. The next village on this axis is Karlovka, but we might see efforts around Nevel'skoe and Yasnobrodovka first.


Another Bradley getting hit west of Avdeevka. I wouldn't be surprised if this is old footage now surfacing.


A medical M113 variant knocked out and captured by Russian forces west of Tonen'koe.


3 Ukrainian POWs from the 110th Brigade, near Ocheretino.


Mar'inka-Krasnogorovka.

Russian forces have pushed north-east of Krasnogorovka, likely preparing to advance along the high ground north of the town.


Russian forces have taken either all of Georgievka, or nearly all. They've also expanded their area of control south of the village.


Ukrainian Leo-2A4 knocked out by Russian artillery near Pobeda.


Russian unmanned ground robot Scorpion used to blow up Ukrainian positions near Krasnogorovka.


Novomihailovka area.

Russian forces continue to inch forward in the fields south-west and north-west of Novomihailovka. They're clearly preparing the ground for a push into Konstantinovka, and I suspect a simultaneous attempt to cut the road south of Konstantinovka.

 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Zaporozhye front.

It appears Russia has taken all of Rabotino. Russian forces have also cleared large areas east and south-east of Rabotino. Though this is of course far from the end, the salient still exists.


Russian bomb strikes on Makarovka, north of Urozhaynoe, and Urozhaynoe itself.


Russian forces have taken over the summer cottage neighborhood north-west of Marfopol', pushing towards Gulyaypole. This is another advance in this area, though it comes after a considerable pause.


Russia striking a Strela-10 in the Zaporozhye area.


Strikes.

Russia recently hit the Mirgorod airbase with strikes. It's unclear if any jets were hit, but there's some visible damage.


Russian strike on a Ukrainian ST-68 in Sumy region.


Russian strike on Odessa, allegedly targeting unmanned boat storage.


This was originally reported as a Gepard AAA, but some sources are now claiming this is a hit Ukrainian Tunguska. I can't tell.


Russia hit an S-300 TEL in Donetsk region.


In L'vov Russia hit a gas compression station.


There have been a series of explosions at the chalk factory in Slavyansk. I suspect these are Russian strikes, but details are lacking.


After a recent Russian strike in Nikolaev footage has suggested something on a Leo-1 chassis was in the building that got hit.


Ukrainian cities continue to suffer from blackouts and transformer blowouts due to accumulated damage from previous Russian strikes.


Ukraine recently hit the Bel'bek airfield with a missile strike. We now have BDA footage that confirms the destruction of two MiG-31s, and an Su-27 (35?) and also a MiG-29 that took damage. It's unclear what other losses were incurred if any.


ATACMS fragments after the recent strike on Bel'bek.


Ukraine hit Lugansk with a Storm Shadow or SCALP strike. Targets are unclear though at least one residential building caught fire.


Ukraine also hit Sverdlovsk with allegedly an ATACMS strike. The target is unclear, from the photos it looks like some sort of industrial enterprise. Russian sources are claiming Ukraine double-tapped the rescue crews.


Ukrainian drone strike on the Tuapse oil refinery.


Russian troops firing during a recent Ukrainian strike in Novorossiysk. The strike was reportedly fairly large, we have no reports on damage yet.


Other interesting bits.

A scarce Ukrainian Gepard getting hit by a Russian strike.


An interesting look at Russian counter-battery fires. We have a Ukrainian howitzer hiding inside a building, and then a Russian artillery strike hitting the building and all around it. Note the poor accuracy. It does look like they hit the target. But it also looks like they hit not-the-target.


A Caesar howitzer getting hit by a Russian FPV drone, location unclear. Note the range of FPV drones is fairly limited, suggesting this is close to the front lines.


Based on a pilot obituary, Ukraine may have lost an Su-27 on May 17th. The pilot was apparently a squadron XO, from the 831st Brigade. It says he died on a combat assignment. Of course it's possible he was killed in a Russian strike too.


A Ukrainian unmanned boat with AA missiles, washed ashore in Crimea.


A Russian Asteys Patrul MRAP with a roof cage. Pre-war these were mainly MVD vehicles.


Russian T-62M with era sidescreens of dubious quality, a roof cage, and a rear... wall? I'm not quite sure how to describe what we see.


Russian 5th Guards Tanks with a T-62M that also has a rear wall...


We're starting to see more improvised anti-drone set ups from Russian forces. Here a BARS unit is using Maxim guns, unclear if pulled from storage domestically or captured from Ukraine. And we also have a multi-AK frame for similar purposes.


For comparison here's a similar Ukrainian Maxim gun set up.


A Ukrainian FrankenSAM made up out of an Osa chassis with R-73 missiles.


A Ukrainian 2S22 Bogdana on a Tatra Phoenix chassis, in allegedly a newly formed artillery brigade.


A Ukrainian Leo-1 with K-1 and Nozh ERA.


A look at Ukrainian decoy production, we have a BMP-1, a Gepard, and an Avenger.


Ukrainian FV103 with a roof cage, 24th Mech Bde.


Ukrainian Strela-10M2 with it's chassis up-armored, and the missiles being the orange Jordanian containers.


Ukrainian M1 Abrams finally gets the K-1 treatment though in limited quantities so far. No roof cage either, there is clearly room for improvement.


Ukrainian pilots training on Alpha Jets in France. This is in preparation for training on F-16s.


The Netherlands are promising another batch of YPR-765s for Ukraine, this batch armed with RCWS.


Russia has arrested the mayor of Enakievo in the DNR for taking bribes. I suspect we will see more arrests in former LDNR areas.


Multiple reports are showing up that the streets of major Ukrainian cities are mostly empty following the new mobilization laws that make it easier to mobilize people for the war.


Russia has restarted the train line to the port of Mariupol', suggesting they may intend to start use some facilities in the port area.

 

Vanquish

Member
Part 1 of 2:


When he was elected, I foolishly believed, as I am sure did many others who followed (surely people in Ukraine did, as was evident from the election results), that he would pursue what he promised and make a great difference for the betterment of the country. I was mistaken and he turned out to be an actor: he was acting, but in the sense of pretending, not in the sense of getting things done. Surely people in Ukraine thought so as well, as was evident from the polls before the invasion. He had an opportunity to unify the country, alienate the extremes, but that didn’t happen and he alienated a great deal of people. For the most part, he didn’t do a thing he promised to do in his campaign. Some of the things he promised to do, he actually did the complete opposite. The country was falling apart, literally. They didn’t need an actor. They needed someone who could deliver, not yet again disappoint. He turned out to be weak and a failure. Look where they are now. Post invasion, sure, he may have earned an Oscar in the first year and a little bit. It’s all downhill from there though.

Why were you mistaken. What were you looking for? He got elected in Ukraine why did you even care? You denigrate him in every single post you make. I can't imagine what it would be like to be elected and immediately thrust into a war with a super power. How would any person be expected to do behave or lead. I dare say you and most people would have quite willingly took the wests offer of shelter and ran away from the war, or in other words Putin's 3 day SMO. He has certainly unified the country as evident by the fact they aren't flying the white flag yet as you would certainly wish for.

We agree here.


Not sure if you are writing it with a straight face. The money for fortifications were “appropriated”, it is pretty clear now. The ministry of defense corruption exposed earlier by a Ukrainian reporter (see my citation a few posts ago regarding current hardships of journalists in Ukraine) where the prices charged to military were at least threefold (much higher in some cases) the market rate, in a country in the middle of war living purely off “handouts” from the developed world. The corruption in recruitment centres that allowed thousands to leave the country and many more to avoid the service. And so on. The list is very long for a single post. These things have directly affected the situation on the battlefield and every single one of them makes corruption issue more relevant than it ever was.

Every country has corruption to some degree including the one you currently apparently reside in. If Canada was being invaded and at war I would imagine quite a few Canadians would also be on the first plane out of the country. I don't think that's news.

Over 60% of the population says that corruption has gotten worse over the past year. Three quarters say that this is their number two concern, war is number one.


Zelensky, in the meantime, tells the journalists not to report on the subject until the war is over:



Are you certain about it? I am not. And things are collapsing, albeit slowly. “No one believes in victory as I do” (c) Zelensky.


He is a part of it now and he is the face of the country with “big problems”. He doesn’t need to be a scapegoat. He needs to be accountable and recognize that issues exist. He sure as hell doesn’t need to tell me that it is our fault, and pardon me that I take it personally.

He is and has been accountable. He is the face of Ukraine. He has not run off. In fact he has been to the front lines on many occasions. What do you take personally? Are you some how put out that Canada has donated equipment or money to help a country that has been invaded and put at war by a super power. Are you upset that you might have to pay more taxes? Just what exactly? I'm a Canadian of non Russian descendant and I whole hardily support the wests help and support of Ukraine against Russian aggression.


So, in other words, him telling me and everyone else that it is the “world’s fault” they are in the situation they are in is saying something positive? I beg to disagree and quite strongly.

It is the wests fault. Everyone expected Russia to overrun Ukraine during Putin's 3 day SMO, including me, and yet here we are over two years in. The west was way to slow to release weapons and support to Ukraine, again because they thought Russia would have chewed up and swallowed Ukraine like they have done through out millennia with so many other countries.

Here is the thing and reality. No one owes anything to Ukraine. Sure, one can argue that those who signed under the Budapest Memorandum may, but it isn’t likely the case given how everything played out. Not me specifically or Canada in general, not the United States of America, not Germany, not Lithuania, etc. No one. In spite of what some believe, they are also not fighting for Europe and the Free World, not for saving the American and other NATO troops from having to fight Russia. This is rubbish and a fairy tale (unless we make it happen, I guess). Everything they receive is “goodwill” (and often poor strategic planning, which is a huge part of it, but it is beyond the topic of this discussion, I think?), including military, humanitarian and financial aid. We feel this should not be happening and are righteous, and fairly so, so we provide aid. For whatever reason, some (many) have confused it with obligations that do not exist. Then, the number one (Zelensky) tells me it is our fault they are where they are today, while the number two (Ermak) tells me that my country needs to allocate 0.25% of its GDP for military aid to Ukraine. That is some pretty crazy stuff, isn’t it?

I'm not sure what generation you were born in but I lived through the cold war. It was real and it still exists to this day. Russia/USSR has always, and will always be a threat to the west. Russia can't help themselves. They live for war and territorially expansion. That is their history and clearly always will be. They don't know what to do with themselves if they're not at war with someone. It's how the state manages the people. If I lived in Europe I would definitely never trust Russia. How could you?

Yes, I understand the consequences of Russia “winning” in Ukraine, and understand it better than an average person. The stakes are high, but not as high as some may make you believe and definitely not as high as can be. Remember, two years and four months ago we were ready to hand the entire Ukraine to Russia? We then felt the weakness and blood and decided to raise the stakes. Fairly so, though one could argue. We’ve been rising them ever since. And guess what, we also turned out be way less than we thought we were. As a result, we doubled down.

I would imagine you as a person of Russian descent might have a certain stake or slant in the outcome even if you do live in Canada. I would say that's fair enough as Canadians are free to choose whomever they'd like to support in war. Thankfully that's a luxury we hold here unlike some other countries.

The point is, he doesn’t need to offend my intelligence and provide me with what he thinks are “good vibes”, over and over again. Moreover, neither him nor his representatives need to express complete disrespect to any single person. This “world’s fault” thing is one of those things. No idea how Melnyk could get away with calling Scholz a “liver sausage”. And so on. Again, the list is very long.

The west will pay dearly for it's reticence in fully helping Ukraine put an end to Russia's transgressions. Some people would just rather put the blinders on and hope it all goes away. The war in Ukraine will eventually end alright at some point. Then we can all wonder whom Russia will next invade and then we can all put the blinders on again and sit on the fence. Well it's not Canada....yet.

Counteroffensive failed - west’s fault; no fortifications - west’s fault; no weapons - west’s fault; can’t pay pensions - west’s fault; is there anything that isn’t someone else’s fault?

Positivity for the internal consumption? Personally, I couldn’t care less - the higher they fly, the harder they fall. Here is another example, of positive messaging

I'm not sure how you realistically ever expected Ukraine to be able to fight off a super power in Russia. Again the west will severely pay for their laissez-faire response to providing assistance to Ukraine. Here's a question for you. Why are not other European countries welcoming Russia into their countries? Why are they in fact joining the European Union and NATO VOLUNTARILLY. Personally I would suspect they are wary of Russia's nefarious history and so are trying to protect themselves when Russia inevitably comes knocking.





 

seaspear

Well-Known Member
This article from the B.B..C of today suggests some progress in its anti- corruption campaign
This article from Russia also goes into an arrest over corruption
President Putin does not have to worry about himself facing any such charge
 

Fredled

Active Member
Feanor said:
I don't know if this is a feature of increased UAS assets deployed here or of insufficient Ukrainian EW,
I don't think that EW is very effective against drones. If yes, drones would have already disappeared and radio wave guns would be the main weapon. I think they are still trying to figure that out.

Feanor said:
We're starting to see more improvised anti-drone set ups from Russian forces. Here a BARS unit is using Maxim guns, unclear if pulled from storage domestically or captured from Ukraine. And we also have a multi-AK frame for similar purposes.
I don't want to imagine the colateral civilian cusualities and damages caused by falling bullets fired at the sky.
The use of Maxims suggest a very large amount of rounds being used.
The AK47 variant would be effective only at very close range and the magazines empty in two seconds
Not sure the effectiveness of these non-automated systems. With drones you have to be very fast, precise and lucky to hit them.
But maybe they have a result...

Thanks for the report.

seaspear said:
This article from the B.B..C of today suggests some progress in its anti- corruption campaign
Yes, they make progress. They report regularly arrests of officials for corruption. But it's very difficult to know how deep the changes are.
The good sign is when officials who thought they didn't risk anything because the practice is so wodespread, are now getting caught red handed.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
I don't think that EW is very effective against drones. If yes, drones would have already disappeared and radio wave guns would be the main weapon. I think they are still trying to figure that out.
Comments from soldiers from both sides suggests that EW is actually very effective against most of the lower end drones on the battlefield, which is what the main problem seems to be. The stuff so cheap it's literally disposable.

I don't want to imagine the colateral civilian cusualities and damages caused by falling bullets fired at the sky.
The use of Maxims suggest a very large amount of rounds being used.
The AK47 variant would be effective only at very close range and the magazines empty in two seconds
Not sure the effectiveness of these non-automated systems. With drones you have to be very fast, precise and lucky to hit them.
But maybe they have a result...
Ukraine starting using set ups like these early in the war and never really stopped. This suggests to me that they have some effectiveness. As for collateral damage, I think it's less then what you could imagine. They used similar setups during WWII for air defense. SAM fragments and downed inbounds also cause collateral damage. I suspect one Russian heavy cruise missile intercepted over an urban area with it's 500 kg payload slamming into a residential building will probably cause comparable collateral damage to all the bullets falling out of the sky put together. Especially if you are using them during air raids and have air raid sirens functioning, like Ukraine has had for most of this war.
 

KipPotapych

Well-Known Member
I apologize for the number of consecutive posts in advance due to the character limit.

It is easy to make claims of corrupt practices as if they were not being addressed ,but this article suggests its a long term pattern that is slowly being addressed ,I would suggest that the Ukrainian army has not been effected to the degree the Russian one has or even its society


Certainly polls suggest most Ukrainian believe corruption is rife under this government but at least there are attempts to root this out at high levels

I think in short, my comment would be: this isn’t a competition. Is corruption worse in Russia? It probably is. If you grouped the states by the their real corruption issues, would Ukraine and Russia end up in the same basket? They probably would, nice and snuggly next to each other. The difference is though we are not providing aid to Russia, so I am not overly concerned about it. A few things from the Foreign Policy article off the top of my head:

Such sources are subjective by definition. What’s more, perceptions can be significantly influenced by the level of corruption-related information and debate, including public awareness campaigns, extensive investigative reporting, media discussion of corrupt practices, and comments by public figures.

See my reference above where it is suggested that Zelensky insisted on not reporting on corruption issues until the war is over. Another reference in the same post about the public perception of the issue. Another reference (Politico article several posts above) in regard to what may happen and happens to the journalists that want to investigate such issues. Another reference will be below in my reply to Fredled.

These efforts helped to produce, for example, one of the world’s most stringent requirements for the declaration of income and assets by civil servants, legislators, and government officials. But such a persistent focus on corruption also heightens the perception that it is widespread—and it takes a while for that perception to turn around.

Russia has had this going for a long time now and that is no indicator of corruption levels as was evidenced from the recent developments there.

A 2018 report by the Kyiv-based Institute for Economic Research and Policy Consulting (IER), refereed by leading Western experts, documented four years of major anti-corruption reforms in the aftermath of the 2013-2014 Maidan protests, which ousted uber-corrupt President Viktor Yanukovych.

While I have zero doubt that Yanukovych was “uber-corrupt”, there was a clear political desire for investigations to run a certain way and political involvement to assure it does so. Was he more corrupt than Kuchma, or Yuschenko, or Kravchik, or Timoshenko, or -insert name-? There are ongoing investigations on treason and other charges against Poroshenko. Timoshenko spent some time in prison where she was by the Yanukovuch regime on corruption and other charges. Kuchma was investigated for numerous things, including murder of journalists. Lutsenko (spelling?), who investigated Yanukovych, got his own pile full as well. So I wouldn’t call anything definitive here since pre and post eras suggest basically the same things.

Another landmark anti-corruption reform came in 2016, when Ukraine unveiled a transparent electronic system for public procurement, ProZorro, which has drastically reduced corruption in bidding for government contracts.

See the reference to the investigation by journalists that revealed threefold the normal prices for military purchases, which at the very end resulted with the Minister of Defense (Reznikov) being dismissed and made into an ambassador or an envoy to… somewhere, I don’t recall at the moment. Consider the parallels with the Shoigu situation: both were incompetent in their positions, but both got sacked when potential personal involvement in the corruption scandals hit uncomfortable levels. I am not saying the same happened, but the parallels are obvious.

Since the 2022 invasion, Zelensky’s government has also stepped up asset seizures from companies and individuals in business that had been working with Russia and financing pro-Russian media and political parties in Ukraine.

That doesn't even sound kosher and should ring the alarms because, while speculating, I have no doubt there is a certain amount of “cleansing” in the media space involved, among other things.

It’s important, however, to set the scale of these cases in relation to the war. The abuses involved amount to millions or tens of millions of dollars—and while these are large numbers, they are an exceedingly miniscule percentage of Ukraine’s vast military expenditures.

This latest thing we talked about - fortifications - is worth a billion (far from “minuscule”), as per Zelensky, who said they allocated the money 5-6 months ago, posed for the photo ops with the construction efforts, which is all the evidence we have of the existence of such fortifications. The extent is, of course, unclear.

And so on.
 

KipPotapych

Well-Known Member
I don't think that corruption and embezzelment of funds is that bad in Ukraine that we should stop aid.
I didn’t say we should. Though I also do not agree with unconditional aid for “as long as it takes”. First of all, I would like to know what should take place, as I already mentioned in this thread probably a dozen of times. The most popular answer to that question is “until Ukraine has an upper hand”, which is clearly way in the past (I also talked about it in depth previously). I also do not care for “we are doing great” reports and “we will be in Crimea by the end of the year” type of projections.

Of course Ukraine would not be in this situation, and would be far wealthier country, had they managed their resources more effectively and more equaly socialy. Putin wouldn't have attacked them in the first place.
God helps those who help themselves, as the saying goes. In Ukraine and Russia they also say something along the lines of “no one can help those who don’t help themselves”.

But our leaders in the West are not fool.
I wouldn't be so convinced. Our leadership here is a prime example of that, in my opinion.

They know all this and they check very closely what Ukrainians are doing with our money and our weapons.
Sure they do. The extent of their knowledge, of course, has constraints and limitations. But even the knowledge they have raises concerns bigger than what they want publicized. For example:

Biden administration officials are far more worried about corruption in Ukraine than they publicly admit, a confidential U.S. strategy document obtained by POLITICO suggests.[…]

“Perceptions of high-level corruption” the confidential version of the document warns, could “undermine the Ukrainian public’s and foreign leaders’ confidence in the war-time government.”[…]

The quiet release of the strategy, and the fact that the toughest language was left in the confidential version, underscores the messaging challenge facing the Biden team.



At the same time, as I said, there is also corruption in the West affecting the efficiency of the military aid. Especially since roughly 90% of the money givenfor Ukraine is spent in the donor country.
That’s not corruption though, that’s reality and common sense (and democracy). No one is going to shell out billions (in some cases tens and hundreds of billions) of dollars just because. Refer to the the dollar values your parliament/senate/what have you fights over on the daily basis and you will see that it is a significant amount of money with otherwise questionable returns. Many have suggested previously that it is “minuscule” and I suggested that it wasn’t. It’s a lot of money and it is not sufficient to change anything because much more is needed. Imagine if the military aid the United States had so far provided was produced elsewhere but the US. That would have been over a long time ago, there is no question about it. The very first Economics textbook I had ever read began with another famous saying: there is no such thing as a free lunch.

So I don't think it's fair to accuse Zelensky or Ukrianians in general to steal your Canadian dollars.
Is it fair to say that it is the world’s fault though? See, that’s my biggest issue. I have no problems paying some taxes that I otherwise wouldn’t have to or that could be better spent elsewhere. It’s this insolence, a complete lack of tact, guilting trips, etc. Like I said, it gets to be beyond just annoying.

I repeat it one more time: We promised Zelensky many things that we didn't deliver or that we will deliver with a delay of one year [sic today interview].

I'm sorry but, this is our fault. Not the fault of the Zelensky's regime.

If we didn't make promises we couldn't hold and if we told Ukrainians that they shouldn't rely on more military support than what we actually gave, their strategy would have been different and they would have spared more lives.
I already talked about it as well. In short, it’s not our fault. We said we will provide support as long as it takes while supplying Javelins, Stingers, and helmets to defeat the Russians. What takes, no one knows still (this is quite literally, as sad as it is). Note that we promised nothing at all to begin with, we had no obligations and we were willing to throw Ukraine in in exchange for sanctions. In fact, we specifically said that we would not provide armoured vehicles, tanks, long-range missiles, airplanes, and a whole bunch of other things. Basically you name it, we said we would not provide it. What is our fault exactly here? What is it exactly that we promised and didn't deliver? Yes, we broke our promise and provided tens (hundreds?) of billions worth of various equipment, ammunition, etc, even though we said we wouldn’t. Ukrainians played their part exceptionally well. Did we? Not really. Not because we didn’t deliver though. In fact, we delivered everything that we promised and more for the grand counteroffensive last year (according to the Pentagon, cited here previously), for example. Just to note, when I say “we”, I refer to the coalition of sponsors as one (some individual members of the coalition failed to deliver armoured vehicles, for example, but those are marginal numbers and together we came through). When we ran out of things to deliver, such as artillery ammunition, for example, we secured it elsewhere. In fact, we collected all we could all over the world from those willing and somewhat unwilling. Isn’t that the case? When someone like Borrell (or whoever it was, a group of Euro politicians) says that they will deliver 1 million shells, one should pause and think for minute about where they were going to come from. Anyway, it has been discussed here previously. The emperors turned out to be naked. Russia is not the only one that got embarrassed here; we made sure that we are too, but we also doubled down on it.

Refer to the interview you cited. Zelensky said: “every decision to which we, then later everyone together, comes to is late by around one year”. Were there broken promises? Chain of events is important here. They “come up with a decision” and then persuade others for months, eventually receiving things they asked for. Important to note here, again, that they were initially outright denied things that they already received or they are still coming. What did we promise that we did not deliver? The insane artillery shells promise aside, of course.

Now he is asking for the direct involvement of the west in the war, including western pilots flying sorties out of NATO states and over Ukraine, intercepting Russian missiles over the Ukrainian territory, identifying targets on the Russian territory, using western missiles to hit the targets (identified by us) inside Russia, and so on. Is this also something we promised and will wait a year to deliver? I understand the situation, but asking us to directly go to war with Russia is waaaaay beyond the scope of this “partnership”.
 

KipPotapych

Well-Known Member
In the West every politician and their dogs competed to talk up the most about supporting the Ukrainian war effort, they all toured Bucha and expressed outrage at Russian war crimes, but when it was time to bring the real things to the front line, they always relied on others to do so. Or to wait for another to make the first step to do the second.
In this context, I fully understand Zelensky's frustration.
Well, that’s what politicians do. Furthermore, if you are a politician and can’t see through these promises by other politicians, you are not good enough of a politician, especially one whose country is in dire circumstances. And I will ask again here, while expressing all the outrage and expressing support, what did we promise to do that we did not follow up on?

About emmigration: Yes, poeple always go were the money is and always support the state or entity which is giving them money (muslims are different, but that's off topic).
People will not fight to defend a country which didn't give them anything and where they lived in poverty.
Nevertheless, enough people joined the ranks on the Ukrainian armed forces to defend their country. And Putin's estimate that Ukraine was so corrupt and hopeless that it will fall within two weeks was wrong (and many in the West thought the same). Which means that things were bad but not that bad at the end of the day.
What about the things that are today? Like I said above, everyone miscalculated (numerous times) in this mess.

Here is a prognosis as seen by Khodorkovsky, along with some statistics he provides. It’s a tweeter post with an embedded video, so I am assuming not everyone can see it, but I will provide the briefs.


Note that he starts by apologizing to his Ukrainian friends and asks them to close their ears. He goes on to say:

Gentlemen, you have practically lost the war. We have lost the war. The Ukrainian GDP prior to the war was $160B; the GDP of Russia - $2.2T; Germany - $4.1T; the EU - $17T. Putin spends on the war $120B per year. And just for an example, the cost of the most common 152mm artillery shell is $500. Putin is spending on war 5.4% of the GDP, approximately. European assistance to Ukraine over the two years of war adds up to about $88B, or 0.25% of the GDP, but this is with the cost of a 155mm artillery shell being between $5,000 and $8,000. That means that along with the American deliveries the real ratio of expenditures on war is 2.5 to 1, in favour of Putin and that is in the best case scenario. This year, without the American deliveries, the ratio is 4 to 1, also in the best case scenario.

It is not surprising that at the beginning of the war Ukraine to Russia population ratio was 40M to 142M, or 1 to 3.5; it is now 1 to 7. So how do you suggest they fight? With such a ratio of deliveries and manpower, Ukraine will lose Kharkov by the end of the year. By the middle of the next year, they will lose Odessa. The manpower ratio will become 1 to 10-12 by the end of 2025. By the middle of 2026, Ukraine will only be able to sustain partisan war and Lvov will only be saved by the deployment of NATO forces, Poland in particular. And this is all the best case scenario, provided the Ukrainian Forces keep resisting heroically, despite the hopelessness of the situation. Otherwise, things will evolve more quickly. And with this, no one will be assaulting the big cities because without supplies they do not pose any threat. Okay, why not betray Ukraine? Maybe Putin will capture it and settle down[…]


Now that is pessimism! And that I do not share, haha. But his numbers are real.

So I prefere to focus on positive developments rather than on blames, even though I know these things.
I would rather focus on the reality myself. Granted, I have been known to be called a pessimist because of it, even by those closest to me.

Effect of positive messaging:

Anna sits in silence for most of the car journey from Kyiv to Kharkiv, her face contorted with worry. “The Russians come closer, closer, closer, but he’s just not listening to me,” she says. Anna made a point of visiting her 75-year-old father regularly, checking in on him at the simple brick house he built 45 years ago near Kharkiv’s glimmering Pechenihy reservoir, east of the city and close to the Russian border. This time, with the din of artillery in the background, she had come to persuade him to leave—to escape a Russian advance already enveloping Vovchansk, 25km to the north. After a hug and a few tears, the initial conversation does not go well. “The tv and radio say it can’t get worse,” insists Petro. “The Russians are losing. Sanctions, losses. Reinforcements are coming our way. They can’t come further.”


I don't think so. But, as always, it will depends wether the west fulfil their promises or not. If they do, Russians are toast, believe me. It depends on the political will of the Western leadershipt and of the capacity of their military industry. There are positive signs, but so far, it's not enough. So in the current state of affair, no, But I wouldn't say never.
Ok, I believe you. Lol. (Not really, just to make it clear).

What did we promise now that would make such a difference? Sure, we will finally (maybe) produce enough artillery shells (though it still isn’t enough) in the foreseeable future. Do we have a number of armoured vehicles we can supply to the newly recruited (still obviously questionable) brigades? Tanks? Replace the ones that were lost that we already supplied and the ones they had? I have read over the past few days that the existing mechanized brigades are being turned into infantry due to the lack of equipment (first google search result for reference). Do we have sufficient air defense units and missiles to supply? The answer to all these questions is not very likely. So I will stick with my opinion for now: it is highly unlikely that Ukraine will have as many assets at their disposal as they did in the beginning of summer of 2023.

And again, the thing to remember is that there is quite a bit of confusion over what has actually been promised and what Ukraine demands. There is also quite a bit of “if we delivered this, then that would happen”. As one famous character said: “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me and you can't get fooled again.” (c) Bush Jr.
 

KipPotapych

Well-Known Member
Most of the following is off topic. My apologies, once again.

Why were you mistaken. What were you looking for? He got elected in Ukraine why did you even care?
I think I had explained in my post why I think I was mistaken. No? I also explained what I was hoping for, I think. Does it matter why I cared? Some care for personal reasons, others for academic and professional reasons. For me, it is currently personal interests only, if that matters.

You denigrate him in every single post you make. I can't imagine what it would be like to be elected and immediately thrust into a war with a super power. How would any person be expected to do behave or lead.
I expressed my opinion.

He was not immediately thrust into a war. He ran his campaign on the premise/promise of ending hostilities in Donbas and peace first and foremost. The invasion happened almost three years later.

I dare say you and most people would have quite willingly took the wests offer of shelter and ran away from the war, or in other words Putin's 3 day SMO. He has certainly unified the country as evident by the fact they aren't flying the white flag yet as you would certainly wish for.
That is surely quite a few assumption about me personally and most other people.

Every country has corruption to some degree including the one you currently apparently reside in.
This comparison of some degree of corruption between Ukraine and Canada, where I “currently apparently reside in” is, of course, nonsense.

If Canada was being invaded and at war I would imagine quite a few Canadians would also be on the first plane out of the country. I don't think that's news.
To be fair, if Canada was being invaded and at war, there likely would be no safer destinations to fly to. So I would propose that your “imagination” is invalid.

He is and has been accountable. He is the face of Ukraine. He has not run off. In fact he has been to the front lines on many occasions.
That has nothing to do with the accountability I was referring to. See my other posts.

What do you take personally? Are you some how put out that Canada has donated equipment or money to help a country that has been invaded and put at war by a super power. Are you upset that you might have to pay more taxes? Just what exactly? I'm a Canadian of non Russian descendant and I whole hardily support the wests help and support of Ukraine against Russian aggression.
Again, a lot of personal feelings here on your part. I believe I expressed myself sufficiently clear about the matter.

It is the wests fault. Everyone expected Russia to overrun Ukraine during Putin's 3 day SMO, including me, and yet here we are over two years in.
So did I, though I did think it would a be few weeks rather than 3 days. It is not the west’s fault Russians had failed. It sure is a Ukrainian achievement though.

The west was way to slow to release weapons and support to Ukraine, again because they thought Russia would have chewed up and swallowed Ukraine like they have done through out millennia with so many other countries.
See my other posts. We didn’t say we would nor were we obligated to release any weapons at all. Again, there is quite a bit of confusion about what we were to do, but we surely were willing to let Ukraine go.

In regard to the “millennia”, that is a very long time and a lot of things happened in that historic timeframe. Like so many other countries did whatever they did with so many other countries. This is a nonsensical argument, if an argument at all.

I'm not sure what generation you were born in but I lived through the cold war. It was real and it still exists to this day. Russia/USSR has always, and will always be a threat to the west.
This is nonsense again. Some other generation would tell you that Russia had been their ally. Always is a hyperbole. There is nothing static and things change as time goes.

Russia can't help themselves. They live for war and territorially expansion. That is their history and clearly always will be. They don't know what to do with themselves if they're not at war with someone. It's how the state manages the people. If I lived in Europe I would definitely never trust Russia. How could you?
More nonsense, in my opinion. I don’t even want to expand on it.

I would imagine you as a person of Russian descent might have a certain stake or slant in the outcome even if you do live in Canada. I would say that's fair enough as Canadians are free to choose whomever they'd like to support in war. Thankfully that's a luxury we hold here unlike some other countries.
I am going to be even shorter here since it is pretty late (in Canada). I can assure you that I have zero interest in moving to Russia or elsewhere, so the outcome that benefits me the most is the outcome that benefits Canada the most. I believe this is self-explanatory.

The west will pay dearly for it's reticence in fully helping Ukraine put an end to Russia's transgressions. Some people would just rather put the blinders on and hope it all goes away. The war in Ukraine will eventually end alright at some point. Then we can all wonder whom Russia will next invade and then we can all put the blinders on again and sit on the fence. Well it's not Canada....yet.
I’d say that the blinders should come off and you should take a good look at things with a bit of reality.

I'm not sure how you realistically ever expected Ukraine to be able to fight off a super power in Russia.
I didn’t.

Again the west will severely pay for their laissez-faire response to providing assistance to Ukraine. Here's a question for you. Why are not other European countries welcoming Russia into their countries? Why are they in fact joining the European Union and NATO VOLUNTARILLY. Personally I would suspect they are wary of Russia's nefarious history and so are trying to protect themselves when Russia inevitably comes knocking
History is ongoing. Many unfortunate things happened in the past 100 years. Some unfortunate things happened in the 100 years before that. And so on. In regard to Europe, here is the first Google search result on the subject:

 

vikingatespam

Well-Known Member
I apologize for the number of consecutive posts in advance due to the character limit.

I think in short, my comment would be: this isn’t a competition. Is corruption worse in Russia? It probably is. If you grouped the states by the their real corruption issues, would Ukraine and Russia end up in the same basket? They probably would, nice and snuggly next to each other.

Russia: 137 and getting worse, Ukraine, 116 and getting better.
 

Ananda

The Bunker Group

If we see another ranks (put this link to interactive map), Russia number getting better a bit, and Ukrainian stagnant.

That's the problem on looking at rank, but not see overall trend. The trend basically say both Russia and Ukraine are both very corrupt. No changing much on the corruption behavior on both countries.

This is why in early part on this thread, I say both are basically run by Oligarchs. Zelensky is just another Putin wannabe. He doesn't get there, because not have chances yet, and ironically this war will give that to him.

Sometimes I'm chuckles on the Western Media or Politicians talk in Ukraine. Before 2022 invasion, the media talks on Ukrainian undemocratic repression, especially against Russian speaking sides. Talk about Ukrainian corruption all the time on any reports on Ukraine.

After the invasion, the corruption talk disappear, and Zelensky become champion of democracy. Now the talk of corruption creaping back.

This War hasn't changed both of them, as are very corrupt oligarch run administrations. Doesn't change the fact they are both increasingly undemocratic. You can put make up on a brute, but make up doesn't change the fact one a bit.
 

KipPotapych

Well-Known Member
Russian soldiers in the hospital, Volchansk.

Ukrainians have levelled the hospital to the ground with some sort off guided bombs. Very precise strikes. The claim is it was filled with the Russian troops.


Ukraine recently hit the Bel'bek airfield with a missile strike. We now have BDA footage that confirms the destruction of two MiG-31s, and an Su-27 (35?) and also a MiG-29 that took damage. It's unclear what other losses were incurred if any.

I posted about this strike previously. The results appear to be quite underwhelming compared to the initial/preliminary claims that included several S-400 launchers and a radar.

Some Ukrainian analysis suggests that 2 Mig-29s were hit, but one belonged to Ukraine - that is, it has been sitting there since 2014. The other has not moved in at least several months and likely wasn’t operational.


Western analysis supports Rybar’s claims:


There was also something about the Su-27 that was hit, but I can’t find the source at the moment.

Ukraine hit Lugansk with a Storm Shadow or SCALP strike. Targets are unclear though at least one residential building caught fire.

The Ukrainian sources say that State University of Internal Affairs was hit and was reportedly used as a command centre by the Russians. One missile was intercepted and the others found the target.


The claims are that 13 were killed and 26 wounded. There is also a rumour that general Anashkin (commander of the South) was wounded in this strike. The source is the same that reported exaggerated results of the Belbek strike though, so I am even more skeptical.



In other news, Ukraine hit Mospino in Donetsk region yesterday. The ATACMS strike reportedly destroyed 2 S300/400 launchers, damaged another, destroyed a 96L6E radar and the command post. Interestingly, no personnel losses, according to the report. Visual confirmation presented. These videos taken by the Russians and posted online are kind of crazy. One would think there should be some serious repercussions for such actions.


German initiative to deliver more air defences to Ukraine falls on dead ears:


US rejects Ukrainian calls for the weapons they provide to be used on the Russian territory:

Despite the Russian advance, the defense secretary said U.S. weapons shouldn't be used beyond Ukrainian territory.

"Our expectation is that they continue to use the weapons that we provided on targets inside of Ukraine," Austin said.



Interesting tidbit from the same article that relates to the situation easily reversible once the weapons arrive and all will be great:

"The Russians managed to secure many tactical gains" in the Kharkiv region and around the city of Kharkiv, Kasapoğlu said, and the Russians can be expected to "try to enhance these tactical footholds ... and gradually move forward to get Kharkiv city in artillery range."

"This may go beyond merely a subordinate effort or a distractive effort," Kasapoğlu continued.

If the offensive is a main effort, and the Russians can capture Kharkiv, "the chances are really slim for Ukraine to launch a large-scale counteroffensive and retake territory from the Russians," Kasapoğlu said.


I meant to post this for a few days now, but got distracted replying to other posts. This is an excellent analysis from Pasi Paroinen:


Also great read from Emil Kastehelmi:


Edit:

Russia: 137 and getting worse, Ukraine, 116 and getting better.
Yes, I am aware. I briefly addressed this in my post and could go on with a lot more detail going years back, but I believe I already took enough space in this thread on the subject and this isn’t exactly on topic. But yes, they are in the same basket.

Another edit re corruption. A couple of (few?) days ago I read an excellent article on the Russian corruption but I am failing to find it at the moment, but will get back to it if I can in the other thread. The tile was something along the lines of “Who would have thought that a side effect of the war in Ukraine would be a significant decrease of corruption in Russia?” Mostly it talked about the new minister of defense, his new deputy, but there was other interesting discussion as well. Ukraine was discussed as well.
 
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Big_Zucchini

Well-Known Member
Since the 2022 invasion, Zelensky’s government has also stepped up asset seizures from companies and individuals in business that had been working with Russia and financing pro-Russian media and political parties in Ukraine.

That doesn't even sound kosher and should ring the alarms because, while speculating, I have no doubt there is a certain amount of “cleansing” in the media space involved, among other things.
As part of the aid provided by the west, Ukraine must meet some demands to fight corruption. Being a former Soviet state, and being de facto controlled by Russia until the Euromaidan, as well as the fact that changes of government are typically much slower than presented - Ukraine naturally has a high level of corruption to deal with. And uprooting corruption takes time.
Of course, they can choose to be overly aggressive, cut corners, and indict everyone on mere suspicions and rumors of corruption, but then they seriously risk scaring off any competent person from the public sphere.

Ukraine does have legitimate reasons to be as fast as possible in dealing with corruption. Not only because of the aid it currently receives, but also because:
1. It could receive more financial aid.
2. It could receive more weapons.
3. It could get access to more advanced weapons.
4. It wants to integrate with the EU (which has anti-corruption legislation demands).

Intentions are nice and all, and we all recognize that Ukraine is a democracy that strives toward liberty and self-improvement, but let's just say Ukraine won't be getting access to F-35s anytime soon, even if they offer to pay fully.

I didn’t say we should. Though I also do not agree with unconditional aid for “as long as it takes”. First of all, I would like to know what should take place, as I already mentioned in this thread probably a dozen of times. The most popular answer to that question is “until Ukraine has an upper hand”, which is clearly way in the past (I also talked about it in depth previously). I also do not care for “we are doing great” reports and “we will be in Crimea by the end of the year” type of projections.
As a general rule, the same amount of aid provided faster - provides greater advantage.
The US and EU could either significantly accelerate the war's progress by providing much more aid, or entirely circumvent a lot of the limitations imposed on Ukraine due to reasons of trust, corruption, etc etc, by simply intervening.
 
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