Royal New Zealand Air Force

[OPSSG]

This is the bit I would like to see confirmed:

"This purchase also includes sensors and performance improvements that will assist New Zealand during extensive maritime surveillance and reconnaissance as well as improve its search and rescue capability."

I know that Lockheed Martin is working on a maritime patrol aircraft kit intended to "roll on" new C-130Js, as well as legacy variants of the military transport. Their spokesman has said in June 2019 that “the focus would very much be non-developmental. It's very much on the integration side." The company is hoping that the MPA kit could be added to the C-130 airframe with very little structural modifications. See: PARIS: Lockheed unveils maritime patrol kit for C-130 Hercules

It is even looking at technology to remove the need to attach a MAD boom to the tail. "There are some sensors I understand that you can install inside the aircraft that you won't have to put on the outside," said Frese. He declined to name the technology or the manufacturer.

 

[John Fedup]

Is this package a Sea Hercules Lite? The Sea Herc concept didn’t go anywhere but this “add on kit” may find traction with governments currently using C-130s that don’t want to commit funds for a dedicated MPA. I know of one such government.

 

[OldTex]

I know that Lockheed Martin is working on a maritime patrol aircraft kit intended to "roll on" new C-130Js, as well as legacy variants of the military transport. Their spokesman has said in June 2019 that “the focus would very much be non-developmental. It's very much on the integration side." The company is hoping that the MPA kit could be added to the C-130 airframe with very little structural modifications. See: PARIS: Lockheed unveils maritime patrol kit for C-130 Hercules

It is even looking at technology to remove the need to attach a MAD boom to the tail. "There are some sensors I understand that you can install inside the aircraft that you won't have to put on the outside," said Frese. He declined to name the technology or the manufacturer.

There have been a couple of countries use C-130s for maritime search. The UK was doing this as a stop-gap until the delivery of the P-8A. It is also one of the uses of the C-130 by the USCG. While these have been surface search, and not the full spectrum maritime patrol/ASW role, it is still a useful capability. It is also the reasoning behind the ATR-42/72 and the CN-235/295 MPAs. A swing role use of available airframes.

 

[Gibbo]

There have been a couple of countries use C-130s for maritime search. The UK was doing this as a stop-gap until the delivery of the P-8A. It is also one of the uses of the C-130 by the USCG. While these have been surface search, and not the full spectrum maritime patrol/ASW role, it is still a useful capability. It is also the reasoning behind the ATR-42/72 and the CN-235/295 MPAs. A swing role use of available airframes.

AIUI RNZAF 40Sqn Hercs already get used in SAR taskings... whilst a 5sqn P3 does the 'search' component my understanding is that once the punter is located often it was the 40Sqn oncall crew who are first out to relieve 5sqn if required. Whilst the wording of the release states otherwise, I'd go so far as to suggest the plan for 40sqn C130J-30 to gain the MX-20HD is primarily to allow them to do this same tasking (far more effectively) ... ie: more SAR but little in the way of pure 'patrol' taskings.

Hell if we do get 5 x C130J-30 it's barely going to provide enough airframes to allow 40sqn to take on significant extra roles due to lower MPA airframe numbers. The Enhanced Maritime Awareness Project is designed to deal with the extra need to 'awareness'... satellites then UAV by 2030+. Anyway yes let's hope cabinet don't squirm and that 40sqn get's it planned 5 with the MX-20HD etc etc.

 

[ngatimozart]

AIUI RNZAF 40Sqn Hercs already get used in SAR taskings... whilst a 5sqn P3 does the 'search' component my understanding is that once the punter is located often it was the 40Sqn oncall crew who are first out to relieve 5sqn if required. Whilst the wording of the release states otherwise, I'd go so far as to suggest the plan for 40sqn C130J-30 to gain the MX-20HD is primarily to allow them to do this same tasking (far more effectively) ... ie: more SAR but little in the way of pure 'patrol' taskings.

Hell if we do get 5 x C130J-30 it's barely going to provide enough airframes to allow 40sqn to take on significant extra roles due to lower MPA airframe numbers. The Enhanced Maritime Awareness Project is designed to deal with the extra need to 'awareness'... satellites then UAV by 2030+. Anyway yes let's hope cabinet don't squirm and that 40sqn get's it planned 5 with the MX-20HD etc etc.

Well they better hurry up because if they follow standard election protocol from recent years, the election writs are issued about 3 months before the election date, which is 19/9/2020. So if writs are issued about 19 June 2020, then they have 1 month to make the decision before they go into fulltime campaigning mode.

 

[Redlands18]

Well they better hurry up because if they follow standard election protocol from recent years, the election writs are issued about 3 months before the election date, which is 19/9/2020. So if writs are issued about 19 June 2020, then they have 1 month to make the decision before they go into fulltime campaigning mode.

3 months, we normally only get 5 weeks in OZ(can be called anytime within the 3 year election cycle) and the GOTD goes into caretaker mode and basically can’t make a major procurement decision(can but they have to consult with the Opposition Leader first, so we would be talking an emergency procurement only).

 

[ngatimozart]

3 months, we normally only get 5 weeks in OZ(can be called anytime within the 3 year election cycle) and the GOTD goes into caretaker mode and basically can’t make a major procurement decision(can but they have to consult with the Opposition Leader first, so we would be talking an emergency procurement only).

We've known the election date since the beginning of the year. That's sort of been the case for the last couple of elections. We have a more stable political system here, without all the dramas of leadership spills and what not.

 

[Redlands18]

We've known the election date since the beginning of the year. That's sort of been the case for the last couple of elections. We have a more stable political system here, without all the dramas of leadership spills and what not.

In Australia the PM can call an election anytime he wants with a minimum of 5 weeks notice, but before the 3 years is up, once that happens the Government is in Caretaker mode and the lower House and half the upper House are dissolved. We have had only 3 PMs actually voted out by the electorates in the last 30 years, the other 5 by there own party.
sorry mods getting a bit OT here, ill stop now.

 

[Rob c]

The government seems to still be making decisions on defence with Ohakea to get an upgrade, but I suspect that most of it will be for the relocation of 5 sqn. But I think that it is way overdue. Government approves $206 million spend on Ōhakea Air Base

 

[ngatimozart]

The government seems to still be making decisions on defence with Ohakea to get an upgrade, but I suspect that most of it will be for the relocation of 5 sqn. But I think that it is way overdue. Government approves $206 million spend on Ōhakea Air Base

I believe that the infrastructure costs for the 5 Sqn move are part of the acquisition costs, so will come under the FASC project.

 

[Nighthawk.NZ]

I believe that the infrastructure costs for the 5 Sqn move are part of the acquisition costs, so will come under the FASC project.

That was my understanding as well. Which is why the initial buy seemed expensive till you see it included infrastructure etc

 

[Cadredave]

That was my understanding as well. Which is why the initial buy seemed expensive till you see it included infrastructure etc

Im not to sure it is for 5 Sqn as the Min Def had a sod turning ceremony not so long ago I believe, I think this is part of the NZDF Base/Camp Infrastructure upgrades in saying that we will know if it is for 5 Sqn or not if Linton or Burnham camps receives a Govt spend as well.

 

[Rob c]

Im not to sure it is for 5 Sqn as the Min Def had a sod turning ceremony not so long ago I believe, I think this is part of the NZDF Base/Camp Infrastructure upgrades in saying that we will know if it is for 5 Sqn or not if Linton or Burnham camps receives a Govt spend as well.

Possibly right . I was assuming that the up grade taxiways may have been in response to P8 needs as there would have been little need for this with the current aircraft operating at Ohakea.

 

[ngatimozart]

Nope the sod turning was for the 5 Sqn hangar and support facilities. That comes out of the FASC project. My reading is that the $206 million is for base infrastructure only. You wouldn't get the 5 Sqn hangar and facilities, plus all the base infrastructure detailed for that amount.

 

[Rob c]

The taxiways for runway 09/27 ( the main runway) were all rebuilt widened and extended a few years ago ,so I assumed that the work would would encompass the parts of 15/33 that have not been upgraded to the same extent.

 

[ngatimozart]

The taxiways for runway 09/27 ( the main runway) were all rebuilt widened and extended a few years ago ,so I assumed that the work would would encompass the parts of 15/33 that have not been upgraded to the same extent.

Don't worry they'll have to widen them all again when we get our 2 second hand C-5 Galaxy aircraft Lol.

 

[RetirementIsGood]

"The government is buying more than $1.5 billion worth of new planes for the Defence Force.
Five new Lockheed Martin Super Hercules aircraft would replace the outdated and costly 1960s Hercules fleet, said Defence Minister Ron Mark.
The $1.521b project will include a flight simulator ... and other supporting infrastructure.
...
The aircraft and simulator are being bought through the United States' foreign military sales process, in a package that includes aircrew and maintainer training.
...
The new planes ... will be fitted with ... an electro-optical/infra-red camera
...
The first of the new Super Hercules will arrive in 2024, with all five operating a year later. "

New Defence Force planes to cost government more than $1.5 billion

 

[htbrst]

The same media release says they plan to spend $21 million to upgrade the NH90 with improved communications and identification systems.

I think this fact sheet is new too, with a render of the C-130 in RNZAF spec: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6937269/FAMC-A3-28-May-GOV.pdf

 

[ngatimozart]

"The government is buying more than $1.5 billion worth of new planes for the Defence Force.
Five new Lockheed Martin Super Hercules aircraft would replace the outdated and costly 1960s Hercules fleet, said Defence Minister Ron Mark.
The $1.521b project will include a flight simulator ... and other supporting infrastructure.
...
The aircraft and simulator are being bought through the United States' foreign military sales process, in a package that includes aircrew and maintainer training.
...
The new planes ... will be fitted with ... an electro-optical/infra-red camera
...
The first of the new Super Hercules will arrive in 2024, with all five operating a year later. "

New Defence Force planes to cost government more than $1.5 billion

Cool, just hope our current Hercs can last another 5 years. The first three of the current fleet, NZ7001 - 03 arrived in 1965.

 

[pea032]

also at the bottom of the press release and tying in with the NZDF discussion:

"Work is expected to be initiated in 2021 on the second phase of upgrading New Zealand’s air mobility capability, when options will be considered for replacing the two Boeing 757 aircraft operated by the Royal New Zealand Air Force.

These are expected to reach their end of service life towards the end of this decade."

The use of 'initiated' is a bit weird - what the hell have they been doing for the last 4ish years then? unless that's when the decision on what will replace them will be made?