Indonesian Aero News

[Ananda]

KSAU resmikan Skadron 33 Lanud Hasanuddin

From Antara News Agency. The planned 3rd C-130 SQ in Makasar that being discussed from my previous post, now being inagurated at last.

For now they are going to be equipped with 4 C-130. I don't have the aircraft numbers yet, but seems at least one or two will come from ex RAAF C-130H.

 

[Ananda]

Libatkan 13 Pesawat Tempur F-16 dan Ratusan Prajurit, TNI AU-USAF Gelar Latma Cope West 2019

From TNI-AU website. The exercise involved 13 F-16 with 7 from TNI-AU 3rd Sq of Iswshyudi AB and 6 USAF F-16 from 14th Sq of Misawa AB.

The exercise is part of on going interoperability of TNI-AU F-16 with USAF ones.

 

[Ananda]

PARIS: Viking Air wins launch order for CL-515 water bomber

6 newly build plus 1 refurbished 215 to 415EAW which seems in equivalent 515 standard, and with 2 for dedicated fire fighting capabilities.

Well after for several years toying with either Beriev BE-200 or Shinmaywa US-2, this choice practically the safer one (even tough the 515 production line seems not commencing yet).
Safer in the sense 515 shares commonality with 415 -215 that have reasonable population for this kind of aircraft.

 

[John Fedup]

Given the increasing severity of forest fires, BC and Alberta should be ordering some as well. Good to see Viking producing the CL-515 finally.

 

[Ananda]

Given the increasing severity of forest fires, BC and Alberta should be ordering some as well. Good to see Viking producing the CL-515 finally.

From my understanding, Viking got this deal also in the ToT side. Seems the deal include Viking's has to help Indonesian in setting MRO facilities..don't know if it's mean with DI or other partner.

DI also in process to build N219 variance with Amphibious capabilities. Just speculate whether Viking also going to provide some technical assistance on that, as part of the deal.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

From my understanding, Viking got this deal also in the ToT side. Seems the deal include Viking's has to help Indonesian in setting MRO facilities..don't know if it's mean with DI or other partner.

DI also in process to build N219 variance with Amphibious capabilities. Just speculate whether Viking also going to provide some technical assistance on that, as part of the deal.

Its doubtful Viking will doing this, because the N219 is a direct concurrent of the DHC-6.
Its unlikely, but not impossible.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

The production of an Eurocopter EC725 Caracal, now called Airbus Helicopters H225M, at IPTN in Bandung. This is a great CSAR-helicopter, thats why TNI-AU doesn't need the EH-101.

 

[Ahmad]

There is Korean Youtuber that said full scale KFX mock up will be presented in ADEX 2019.

 

[ngatimozart]

There is Korean Youtuber that said full scale KFX mock up will be presented in ADEX 2019.

That'll be good to see. When is ADEX 2019?

 

[Ahmad]

That'll be good to see. When is ADEX 2019?

Mon, Oct 14, 2019 – Sun, Oct 20, 2019, Seoul, South Korea

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

So, after 9 normal transport versions to the Indonesian Air Force and one transport version to the Indonesian Police, IPTN/DI now delivers a MPA version of C295 to the Air Force.
TNI AU Receives CN295 Special Mission Aircraft from PTDI - Army, Vacation and Transportation Enthusiast | AVTEN

 

[Ananda]

Lantik Dankodiklatau, Kasau Optimis TNI AU Menjadi Organisasi Tempur Andal dan Disegani

From TNI-AU official site. The Air Force Chief talking about further reorganisation of Air Force. This also related with more assets coming in near future.

Some what he talked already in contracts or coming like more CSAR Helicopters (in this term Caracal), more transport (contract for C-130J), but also fighters, UAV, and Jet Tankers.

Fighters now being speculate on local media or forums as either 1 SQ of Su-35 and 2 SQ of F-16V or 3 SQ of F-16V.
Tankers based on TNI-AU public report of their preference goes to either A-330 MRTT or KC-46. No clear indication on UAV except DI/IAe preference of using Turkish ANKA as based for their MALE UAV.

Interestingly he also talking about long range missile, which some speculate as Long Range Theater SAM. For me, I see only on terms of Medium Range SAM as NASAMS (as already in contracts) with more AIM 120 as beyond visual range missile for both F-16 and NASAMS.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Its better to wait first and not to listen to all those speculations and wild stories. It will be already great if the current administration decide to continue with the acquisition of those 11 Su-35s, after years of hesitations and negotiations, the program is now stuck again.
So i can not believe they will suddenly replace the F-16A/B/C/Ds with 2 or 3 squadrons of F-16V. It will be a remarkable decision too, the 23 second hand C/Ds are recently added to the fleet.

Long range missiles? Like the MIM-104F (PAC-3) Patriot, THAAD, S-300 and S400? Again an unrealistic scenario, too good to be true.
It will be nice if they order more AIM-120C-7, having only 36 of these missiles for all our F-16s and NASAMS launchers is just pathetic.

 

[Ananda]

So i can not believe they will suddenly replace the F-16A/B/C/Ds with 2 or 3 squadrons of F-16V. It will be a remarkable decision too, the 23 second hand C/Ds are recently added to the fleet.

Long range missiles? Like the MIM-104F (PAC-3) Patriot, THAAD, S-300 and S400? Again an unrealistic scenario, too good to be true.
It will be nice if they order more AIM-120C-7, having only 36 of these missiles for all our F-16s and NASAMS launchers is just pathetic.

The plan for F-16V is not for replacement on existing F-16. I believe I have put on my previous post that (based on Air Force public statement), they plan to consolidate what's Hawk 100/200 that still operational to one squadron (seems the one in Pekanbaru AB), While the ex Hawk Sq in Pontianak AB will get this F-16V.

They also plan to build new fighter SQ for eastern Indonesia, which will get another F-16V. So the plan for new fighter is for 1 SQ of Su-35 and 2 SQ of F-16V (if the deal for Su-35 come to fruition), which is part of their plan to have 8 fighter SQ by 2024 (from existing 7 currently).

As for that long range missile, well with TNI-AU so far only operating Shorad..any medium range system like NASAMS will be considered long range.

 

[Ahmad]

The plan for F-16V is not for replacement on existing F-16. I believe I have put on my previous post that (based on Air Force public statement), they plan to consolidate what's Hawk 100/200 that still operational to one squadron (seems the one in Pekanbaru AB), While the ex Hawk Sq in Pontianak AB will get this F-16V.

They also plan to build new fighter SQ for eastern Indonesia, which will get another F-16V. So the plan for new fighter is for 1 SQ of Su-35 and 2 SQ of F-16V (if the deal for Su-35 come to fruition), which is part of their plan to have 8 fighter SQ by 2024 (from existing 7 currently).

As for that long range missile, well with TNI-AU so far only operating Shorad..any medium range system like NASAMS will be considered long range.

It will be better to replace Hawk with KFX so that we can also save the program. It is annoying to know the fact that Indonesian want to reduce KFX plane number into 16 planes from 48 ( which can endanger Indonesian position on the program) while in the same time boasting about F 16 V acquisition. It is just dumb.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

It will be better to replace Hawk with KFX so that we can also save the program. It is annoying to know the fact that Indonesian want to reduce KFX plane number into 16 planes from 48 ( which can endanger Indonesian position on the program) while in the same time boasting about F 16 V acquisition. It is just dumb.

It will be indeed unlogic and dumb to reduce the planned KFXs to only 16, just to be able to buy American F-16s.
If this plan is really true, then ordering only 16 KFX is just a sign that the current Indonesian government doesn't take the KFX program serious. This can cause the Indonesian participation in this project to end in a complete failure.

 

[Ahmad]

It will be indeed unlogic and dumb to reduce the planned KFXs to only 16, just to be able to buy American F-16s.
If this plan is really true, then ordering only 16 KFX is just a sign that the current Indonesian government doesn't take the KFX program serious. This can cause the Indonesian participation in this project to end in a complete failure.

I am afraid that there is opposition on KFX program from some high rank Indonesian military working in Ministry of Defense. The opposition cannot jeopardize the program during SBY administration since SBY support KFX from the start. He has so many strategic defense program that is good for Indonesian future. It only happen after Jokowi administration. That's why they just forgot to pay for almost 2 years CMIIW. I believe it may come from persons who have some connection with Western defense industry lobby. Some people like Lembong, our Investment Ministry, also the one should be suspected to have US defense industry lobby connection. He is suggesting that 16 number as I watched his interview on Youtube, his reason is to support Rupiah is a kind of reason that is also dumb since KFX program acquisition will only happen if the program success, and the time table is after 2024 not during Jokowi administration period. Rupiah still has so much time to be a strong currency and we shouldnt hide the fact that 5-10 years from now we really need to have hundreds of fighter as a big nation, our economy is also predicted to grow and reach 2 trillion in 2032. Lembong has experience working in US and should be suspected to have such connection. The idea to do barter with Russia also may come from him and it lead to complexity of the acquisition that resulted in delay.

Jokowi should not trust people who advise him to turn down the KFX program. His plan to renegotiate is also a show of betrayal from the agreement sign in 2014. Many Korean has already shown some resentment toward Indonesian due to this renegotiation. This will end up bad for Indonesian defense industry future due to the fact that Korean may not have any interest anymore to have a meaningful collaboration in any defense program with us. Not an Islamic act where we should keep our promise instead of lying in our commitment. The idea to consider F 16 V may come from the same persons or the same group of people who oppose KFX program, since they think their plan to harm KFX program or at least minimize KFX future acquisition seems to be successful.

 

[Ananda]

I've been putting this KFX fiasco on my several post, and agree this renegotiation move is just simply a 'rediculous'.

Rediculous, cause what they are trying to renegotiate is simply the term that we have during CN-235 with Casa back in the 80's.
However with CN-235 we are 50:50 partnership. We are not junior partner.
In KFX, we are only 20%, but we asked more work share from KAI that exceed 20% of our share. We also asked proprietor rights to build and market our own version without Korea or KAI intervention.

Well you can do that if you put more money. Simply on that. This negotiating tactics with negotiating some reduce payment scheme, but in same time ask for more work share and rights...what the heck ?
Well no wonder some in Korean side begin serious doubt of our continous intentions with KFX/IFX program.

But then, the opposition on KFX, is not simply from politics of this administration or some 'hiden' agenda of some factions to get more 'procurement' projects..
But also seems coming from local Industries it self (DI)..with from rumours that I heard also think doing KFX project is not really worthwhile. Some in the local aviation industry feel if we only got 'Junior Partnership' then it's better goes with licensed agreement with more established partner (like Airbus or SAAB).

So, will see how this developed. But on this stage I'm not really hold high expectations on Indonesia continuation on the program. Too many 'interest' that can sidelined the implementation from our side.
Seems Korea it self sees more potential on Naval cooperation with Submarine program or even Corvettes/Frigate. Especially when (if I heard right from the industries sources), MinDef and PAL not really happy with Damen.

Add:
In my opinion, if DI want to continue working with KAI, then forget KFX/IFX. Used the money to work with KAI to further improve FA-50. DI, has no experience with Jet Fighter. The whole portfolio of DI are Transport Turboprop and helicopter.

In 90's I remember plan by then IPTN under Habibie to licensed Hawk 200. Even Habibie then that usually have 'grandious' plan for IPTN, he knows that you can't jump to first line fighters like F-16. Start with something more manageable.

FA-50 is like Hawk 200, something manageable with good potential for Indonesian environment. Like Hawk 200, further developing FA-50 can be add with radar that can provide you with BVR capabilities (Hawk 200 is using derivative of AN66 of F-16, thus can theoretically according to BAe equipped with AIM7).

Most importantly TNI-AU can operate that with quantity that they want, and manageable with their operating budget.
KFX even tough theoritically only available on 2030+ (which in that time it's hope Indonesian budget has much increased than now)..still will be more expensive to operate relative even to F-16V. My guess will be relative in current operating cost of Flankers.

Even with larger budget (and remember you have to calculate inflation cost), I still suspect TNI-AU will have strained their budget on operating 3-5 SQ of KFX. Simply single engine is much cheaper to operate than double engines.
Buy that single seat F-50 design that KAI left, for KFX project. It's win win in my opinion with KAI. They still got money with us left KFX, and we got the more or less relative matured design that they already prepared but left for KFX

Just my two cents

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

If the KFX project is cancelled, then continuing with the FA-50 is indeed the best option, because in October 2017, KAI unveiled a new variant of the T-50 based on the FA-50 multirole combat aircraft, including fifth generation cockpit, an aerial refuelling receptacle, cockpit multifunction display, dorsal hump for extra internal fuel, and an embedded training suite.

Also in January 2019, KAI has begun development on an improved FA-50 known as block 10 and block 20 upgrades. Block 10 is a software upgrade so it can use the Lockheed MartinAN/AAQ-33 Sniper targeting pod, while the block 20 is improvement capability to conduct beyond-visual-range air-to-air missions, carrying munitions such as the AIM-120 AMRAAM.

IPTN can not only build this new FA-50 version in Bandung, but also produce parts of it, like they do with the EC-725 and NC212-400/NC212i, of course not with the ELTA EL/M-2032 radar, but with the AN/APG-67 or Selex 500 Vixen.

Anyway, its absolutely an improvement over the Hawk Mk.209. The worst thing what the current administration can do is to cancel the acquisition of the Su-35, abort the KFX project and buy a bunch of JF-17 or F-7MGs, with the reason they are "cheap but superior" but actually just to lick the arses of the chinese.

 

[Ananda]

worst thing what the current administration can do is to cancel the acquisition of the Su-35, abort the KFX project and buy a bunch of JF-17 or F-7MGs, with the reason they are "cheap but superior" but actually just to lick the arses of the chinese.

I don't think we will buy any major defense equipment from China. If you see equipment that being bought so far from China, mostly in minor system, like Naval guns, Shorad, or patrol boat electronics. Those are things that will not be a major factor integrated to network system TNI now building.

Moreover, this administration has been attack and has to defend hard on the last ellection for being accused as Chinese 'stooge'..thus they are realized buying major defense equipment from China can be sensitive issue. They just win ellection, and I think they will be very careful on that.
The 'largest' potential major system that being talked procured from China is the MALE UAV. Even that, so far I'm not sure, which MALE UAV that will be procured in the end.

Seems this administration now try to buy more US equipment for balancing Trade issue, and also we still need US back considering how China behaving lately.

Add:
The Network system that TNI try to build, will be handle by State Owned Electronics company PT. LEN. Looking on the partners they are now build, LEN seems using European ones. Honestly it will be very interesting if they can manage to communicate with Russian and Chinese system, as what they (LEN) building is practically using Western sources as based.