Indonesian Aero News

[Todjaeger]

It is indeed a remarkable assessment. On many points it is obvious that in reality the A330MRTT has the most positive result.

Yes, the A330 has a higher MTOW, but it also has a higher fuel storage capacity, 111.000 kg compared to the 96.000 from the KC-46.

And like you said, GMF has decades of experience with the A330. The 767 was never used by any Indonesian airline (with exception of wet leases of umroh/haji flights), the A330 is in use by Garuda Indonesia, Lion Air and in the past also Batavia Air.

Besides that IPTN produce much more parts for Airbus aircrafts than for Boeings for many years.
"Unit costs KC-46 US$ 150-250 millions" : That unit price is based on a contract between USAF and Boeing for 19 KC-46A. Well, you don't have to be a genius to understand that if TNI-AU (a non-Western and non-NATO air force) orders a much smaller amount from Boeing, the price will be substantial higher.
The A330 has a higher ceiling and a superior range compared to the KC-767/KC-46.

Specially if we look to the “Tabel 5. Tabel Kriteria dan Bobot Penilaian”, it seems it is made incorrectly by purpose. Like somebody get paid to do so.

Even many of the most loyal allies of the US, choose the A330MRTT above the KC-767/KC-46, and that is not without a reason.

There is a bit more involved in why countries selected the tanker they did.

Aside from different countries having different requirements and conops, a major consideration was that a number of countries had tanker replacement or acquisition programmes which were running ahead of the US tanker programme, no thanks to corruption between Boeing and personnel in the Pentagon, which was quickly followed by legal challenges first from Airbus, then Boeing IIRC. Ultimately the whole selection process had to be scrapped and re-started, which led to the new/re-started US tanker programme making a selection in 2011.

That selection date, being in 2011, is significant since that is about seven years after the A330 was first selected (by the UK IIRC) as the basis for a MRTT and two other nations had also selected aerial tankers based upon the A330 airliner before the KC-46 was selected.

From my perspective, the higher fuel carriage and offloading capacity of the A330 is not really the advantage most would think, since those numbers are already going to exceed the max fuel capacities of most military aircraft in service. It would take something like a C-17, flying with nearly empty tanks, to really start seeing that capacity make a difference.

When getting into discussions on in-flight refueling of fighter/strike aircraft, that fuel capacity difference might permit a few more aircraft to be refueled by a single tanker, and/or a tanker possibly loitering at a slightly more distant station. Some of it is honestly hard to estimate since the A330 MRTT is a larger and heavier aircraft, and would therefore most likely burn more fuel to fly a given distance and loiter there.

I suspect that one of the reasons why a number of countries have opted for the A330 MRTT, after the KC-46 selection had been made by the USAF, is due to either the amount of workshare the country placing the order could get, or the level of participation with Airbus that was already underway with the countrys' aerospace industries. Another consideration for a number of countries would likely have been that Airbus had examples flying, while Boeing was still working out some of the details of the KC-46 and did not have an aircraft in the air.

 

[Ananda]

"That unit price is based on a contract between USAF and Boeing for 19 KC-46A. Well, you don't have to be a genius to understand that if TNI-AU (a non-Western and non-NATO air force) orders a much smaller amount from Boeing, the price will be substantial higher".

That's what not clear yet. Logically and based on previous experience it should be that. However there's something more I believe on Boeing offered on KC-46 that not being open to public yet.
Is Boeing offering KC-46 which're part of USAF batch ? TNI-AU only looking for up to 4 MRTT class tanker (so far). Boeing loosing competition on selling KC-46 to A-330, and A-330 is being known as favorite on this process before due to A-330 and Airbus connection to Indonesian MRO and Aero Industry as the whole.
However last year they come in rather large business delegation to Indonesian Mindef..and KC-46 that trailing A-330, suddenly got upper hand.

What exactly the package being offered is still in speculation so far. But, I do believe they are offering package that being considered more beneficial for Indonesian Mindef budget and PTDI.

Is this deal also part of Indonesian bargain to US on securing trade deal ? (since Trump administration is pushing countries with trade surplus to US including Indonesia to reduce the surplus) ?
Is Boeing and US include in the package long term training and infrastructure/parts support within USAF cycle (thus reducing the costs) ?

Well there's possibilities that open to speculation on why Air Force assessment goes to an Aircraft that are not fully operational with USAF, over an Aircraft that already operational with many Air Force and also more familiar with Indonesian MRO industry.

It's not a done deal, I still suspect Airbus will make counter offer. After all Airbus used to experience upper hand in Indonesian Government Agency procurement due their 'special relationship' to PTDI.
This paper did come bit surprising for many local media and online anthusiast, but for me personally, I still don't think the game is closed yet.

 

[swerve]

From my perspective, the higher fuel carriage and offloading capacity of the A330 is not really the advantage most would think, since those numbers are already going to exceed the max fuel capacities of most military aircraft in service. It would take something like a C-17, flying with nearly empty tanks, to really start seeing that capacity make a difference.

When getting into discussions on in-flight refueling of fighter/strike aircraft, that fuel capacity difference might permit a few more aircraft to be refueled by a single tanker, and/or a tanker possibly loitering at a slightly more distant station. Some of it is honestly hard to estimate since the A330 MRTT is a larger and heavier aircraft, and would therefore most likely burn more fuel to fly a given distance and loiter there.

I suspect that one of the reasons why a number of countries have opted for the A330 MRTT, after the KC-46 selection had been made by the USAF, is due to either the amount of workshare the country placing the order could get, or the level of participation with Airbus that was already underway with the countrys' aerospace industries. Another consideration for a number of countries would likely have been that Airbus had examples flying, while Boeing was still working out some of the details of the KC-46 and did not have an aircraft in the air.

Norway, Poland, Belgium & the Netherlands are in a consortium with Germany, which could have influenced them., but Australia, S. Korea, Singapore, Saudi Arabia & the UAE all chose A330 MRTT without, AFAIK, any industrial reasons. KC-46 wasn't available when they wanted tankers, but the Boeing-built KC-767 sold to Japan & Italy was, & it was offered - but they all rejected it, citing performance. South Korea usually buys American automatically, & the others aren't exactly anti-American.

The Indian AF selected A330 MRTT supposedly based on performance, but got more Il-78, perhaps on price, perhaps politics.

Colombia & Brazil have bought secondhand 767s modified into tankers in Israel. I think they were selected on price.

So far, Japan has ordered KC-46, to go with it's existing KC-767s. Another "automatically buy American" country, & one which because it already has 767 tankers should find the KC-46 simpler to integrate into its operations.

 

[Ananda]

Indonesia completes technical evaluation for aerial refuelling requirements | Jane's 360

From Jane's. In here, being stated USD 500mio being prepared for initial project. This seems confirm from local media before that eventough they (Air Force) emphasize the need for at least 4 tankers, but initial procurement will be for 2 (replacing 50 year old 2 KC-130B).

From here seems A-330 and KC-46 still consider as leading contenders, despite Air Force study rating put KC-46 with highest score.
Seems indicating Airbus still have something else to offer in countering Boeing move.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Indonesia completes technical evaluation for aerial refuelling requirements | Jane's 360

From Jane's. In here, being stated USD 500mio being prepared for initial project. This seems confirm from local media before that eventough they (Air Force) emphasize the need for at least 4 tankers, but initial procurement will be for 2 (replacing 50 year old 2 KC-130B).

From here seems A-330 and KC-46 still consider as leading contenders, despite Air Force study rating put KC-46 with highest score.
Seems indicating Airbus still have something else to offer in countering Boeing move.

Wasn't one of those KC-130B already written off?

Recently i read that this year the Su-35 will not come, for the Air Force there will be enough budget for only a second hand Australian C-130, one C295 in 'special livery' and a NC212i...
Any more info about it?

 

[Ananda]

Wasn't one of those KC-130B already written off?

Recently i read that this year the Su-35 will not come, for the Air Force there will be enough budget for only a second hand Australian C-130, one C295 in 'special livery' and a NC212i...
Any more info about it?

The slides that being circulated on local online forum shown new asset that will come in 2019. Which are 1 ex RAAF C-130H, 1 CN-235 special mission, 2 NC-212i for Air Force. It's from previous years contracts. It's not talked on what being procurred this year.

As for KC-130B, yes it's only one operating now since one already down. However the Air Force initial plan for MRTT is to replace both KC-130B. Some Mindef official also stated if the contract for MRTT (whether A-330 MRTT or KC-46, or Converted 767) signed, they are hoping for additional 2 option. But the planned budget allocation so far is for 2.

 

[OPSSG]

The slides that being circulated on local online forum shown new asset that will come in 2019. Which are 1 ex RAAF C-130H, 1 CN-235 special mission, 2 NC-212i for Air Force. It's from previous years contracts. It's not talked on what being procurred this year.

As for KC-130B, yes it's only one operating now since one already down. However the Air Force initial plan for MRTT is to replace both KC-130B. Some Mindef official also stated if the contract for MRTT (whether A-330 MRTT or KC-46, or Converted 767) signed, they are hoping for additional 2 option. But the planned budget allocation so far is for 2.

With budget for only 2 tankers, please get the MRTT and your pilots and crew can be trained in SG or Australia - for us to allocate simulator time. That way, Indonesia can buy the simulators later and also tap on community knowledge. If there is a real plan to buy 4, over a period of say 2 budget years, then go for the KC-46. In that case, buy the simulators with the 1st 2 aircraft.

It is indeed a remarkable assessment. On many points it is obvious that in reality the A330MRTT has the most positive result.

Yes, the A330 has a higher MTOW, but it also has a higher fuel storage capacity, 111.000 kg compared to the 96.000 from the KC-46.

And like you said, GMF has decades of experience with the A330. The 767 was never used by any Indonesian airline (with exception of wet leases of umroh/haji flights), the A330 is in use by Garuda Indonesia, Lion Air and in the past also Batavia Air.

Besides that IPTN produce much more parts for Airbus aircrafts than for Boeings for many years.
"Unit costs KC-46 US$ 150-250 millions" : That unit price is based on a contract between USAF and Boeing for 19 KC-46A. Well, you don't have to be a genius to understand that if TNI-AU (a non-Western and non-NATO air force) orders a much smaller amount from Boeing, the price will be substantial higher.
The A330 has a higher ceiling and a superior range compared to the KC-767/KC-46.

Specially if we look to the “Tabel 5. Tabel Kriteria dan Bobot Penilaian”, it seems it is made incorrectly by purpose. Like somebody get paid to do so.

Even many of the most loyal allies of the US, choose the A330MRTT above the KC-767/KC-46, and that is not without a reason.

The day will come where Indonesia will need ‘allies’ to stand by her via alignment of interests. It may not occur in 2025 but it will come. Even after Donald leaves office, the US foreign policy cannot remain the same - at current levels of engagement.

 

[Ananda]

With budget for only 2 tankers, please get the MRTT and your pilots and crew can be trained in SG or Australia - for us to allocate simulator time. That way, Indonesia can buy the simulators later and also tap on community knowledge. If there is a real plan to buy 4, over a period of say 2 budget years, then go for the KC-46. In that case, buy the simulators with the 1st 2 aircraft.

A330 MRTT has been the leading contenders on this tanker process. Several Air Force top brass stated that in local media before. However as I've mentioned on my previous post, after large Boeing business delegation come to MinDef last year then the KC-46 got higher score to A330 MRTT.

This quite a surprise considering it's close to none Airbus lose competition on TNI competition, due to Airbus special relationship with DI. On light transport C-27 losing to C-295, on ASW helicopters Kaman and AW losses to Airbus, when AW try to break Super Puma/Caracal hold on Medium helicopters..the AW 101 case become scandal politically and now being investigated as potential corruption case.
Even when the AF shown clear preference toward C-130J, the State Owned Enterprise (SOE) still looking for scheme where A400M can be procured with SOE budget (not through defense budget) but operate by AF. They say it's for logistics transport in Eastern Indonesia, but it's clear to compromise with Airbus for DI benefits.

However in my opinion, in this case A330 logically should be on upper hand not because Airbus, but because the logistics, local maintenance expertise, training infrastructure for A330 is already there locally. Garuda also in process to replace their A330 for A330NG, and Airbus also offering on rebuilt ex Airliner A330 for A330 MRTT.

So, if KC-46 win and being procurred, I think it is on two factors..Boeing provide good package deals with other Aircraft ( such as AH-64, CH-47 which Indonesian interested to acquire more) and Trade Politics to reduce US trade deficit with Indonesia.

It's not finish yet, I strongly suspect Airbus will try to counter move..and just like I said, they got strong lobby with Indonesian establishment.

 

[Ananda]

9 Pesawat Tempur Baru Lengkapi Kekuatan Lanud Abdulrachman Saleh

According to detik online news, 9 new transport aircraft will come this year to Abdurachman Saleh AB in Malang, East Java.
4 will be NC-212i and 5 unspecified Amphibious aircraft. This being speculate as Canadair CL-145. Abdurachman Saleh AB used to have Amphibious aircraft of Grumman Albatross before retired them in early 80's.

This seems supporting MinDef statement in end of last year and early this year that procurement of Dual Purpose assests of Defense and Disaster relief function will get priority. Thus indicating transport assests will have priorities. This related with plan on CH-47, C-130J and Tanker/Transport plane...

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Fu

9 Pesawat Tempur Baru Lengkapi Kekuatan Lanud Abdulrachman Saleh

According to detik online news, 9 new transport aircraft will come this year to Abdurachman Saleh AB in Malang, East Java.
4 will be NC-212i and 5 unspecified Amphibious aircraft. This being speculate as Canadair CL-145. Abdurachman Saleh AB used to have Amphibious aircraft of Grumman Albatross before retired them in early 80's.

This seems supporting MinDef statement in end of last year and early this year that procurement of Dual Purpose assests of Defense and Disaster relief function will get priority. Thus indicating transport assests will have priorities. This related with plan on CH-47, C-130J and Tanker/Transport plane...

Funny that they call it "pesawat tempur".
The Be-200ES has been leased/hired by the Indonesian government a couple of times for forest fires, it was also sent by Russia for SAR operations during the Air Asia crash and it has a superior performance and capacity compared to the Canadair CL-415.
But the air force often prefer turboprops, and the CL-415 has similar engines with the ATR-72, C295 and Fokker 50. So thats maybe the reason they have chosen the Canadair one.

 

[Ananda]

TNI AU: Tahun Depan Skadron Udara 31 Bakal Diisi C-130J Super Hercules

From Angkasa Online, The AF spokesman told that beginning this year 31st transport sq in Halim-Jakarta AB will move some of it's C-130H to new transport squadron in Makasar AB to make place for 6 C-130J. This will make 3 operational squadron of C-130 as being planned from few years ago.

The # of C-130J bit different from previous statement from Min-Def that saying 5 C-130J being procurred under contract.
Interestingly the spokesman also told some B still maintain even after the J comes. From other sources before, it's being announced that up to 6 B's have been under upgrade work to H standard. Seems that 6 upgrade B's will still be maintain.

Indonesian Air Force C-130s

C-130 net calculate 38 C-130/L-100 has been delivered to Indonesia since the 60's onward. 10 catagorise as write off due to accident.
From that and other source, I calculate the current Operational Inventory of TNI-AU C-130:
8 C-130H
2 L-100-30
6 C-130B (retrofit to H standard)
8 C-130H (ex RAAF).
Thus if 6 C-130 J begin to enter inventory as scheduled stated in the interview, then TNI-AU will have at least 10 aircraft of C-130 family for each squadron.

 

[Ananda]

Pesawat F-16 TNI AU Diupgrade, Dilengkapi Bom Canggih JDAM

From Tempo online, the progress on TNI-AU F-16 A/B Blk 15 EMLU-Falcon Star upgrade program.
In short the program, being conducted in Iswahyudi AB by TNI-AU technicians and from PT. DI as sub contractor with supervision from LM as Main contractor.
It will involve all 10 F-16 A/B, and the scope in structures and sensors/electronics.

This will enable those F-15 Blk 15 to operate BVR and latest guided munitions like JDAM, independently. Before, if those F-16 want to launch laser guided munitions, then soldiers in the ground has to guide them with portable laser guidance.

Seems the upgrade will be equivalent with the F-16 C/D 52id which being upgrade to Blk 50 standard.

 

[Ananda]

Found this photo from BPPT (Indonesian Technology Development Agency), which seems coordinate UAV development. This picture shown their concept for MALE UAV being developed with coordination of several government companies like DI/IAe, LEN (government owned electronics company) and Indonesian Space Agency (LAPAN).

Interestingly, before DI already told publicly that they are pursuing cooperation with TAI on developing TAI Anka MALE UAV.
Whether this project related to that or seperate development, is not clear yet.

 

[Ananda]

Hawk TNI AU Kemungkinan Diganti F-16V, Skadron Tempur Baru Akan Dibentuk di Kupang

This is already couple days old. Angkasa magazine usually has quite reliable source from internal Armed Forces.
Basically the article talk:
1. Hawk 100/200 that now make two squadron (Sq 1 in Pontianak/West Kalimantan and Sq 12 in Pekanbaru), will be consolidated in 1 squadron which is 12th.
2. While Sq 1 and new Fighter Sq which will be created in Kupang AB, planned to be fill by new fighters that will officially choosen soon.

Base on this article, the internal sources in TNI-AU and Mindef indicating the choices seems closing in to F-16V. This seems indicating that TNI-AU wishes for it's fighting arsenal focus on Flanker's family and Viper's family got support from the administration.

TNI-AU has been for some time talk publicly on creating second fighter squadron in Eastern Indonesia. So far the only fighter Sq in Eastern Indonesia is located in Makasar AB (Flankers). Kupang AB already from the 90's certified for supporting Fighters flight as also Morotai AB in northern mollocas. However so far only Makasar AB in Eastern Indonesia that has in-house fighter Sq.

 

[Ananda]

Demi Program BBM Satu Harga, Pertamina Beli Airbus A 400

From CNBC Indonesia..
This article shown continous development on plan procurement on two A-400M that I've mentioned on previous post several months ago.

As I've mentioned, the procurement will be using SOE (State Owned Enterprise) fund and not Defense budget. And also like C-160 Transall in the 80's.. procurement of Military Transport grade plane by SOE's was being done before.

Base on this article, Pertamina subsidiary (most likely Pelita Air) will done the procurement and most probably operate them. Those two A-400M will be finance one by Pertamina group and the other by consortium of SOE that run logistics business. This is the same airline that bought C-160 in the 80's also with the same tag line for logistics purpose in Eastern Indonesia.

Add the English version:
Pertamina to buy Airbus A400 to be operated by subsidiary

This is really follow the patern of C-160 procurement in the 80's. Those C-160 (six of them) being used by Pelita for charter cargo by oil and mining company and also used for Government logistics, including TNI ones.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Ive read somewhere that

"On 12 April 2019, the Indonesian Ministry of Defence has ordered a single NAS332C1+ from PT Dirgantara for use by Skadron Udara 6 of the Tentara Nasional Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU, Indonesian Air Force). The Puma is to be based at Bogor/Atang Senjaya, Java (Indonesia). "

Is this correctly? Remarkable that they ordered the older NAS332 Super Puma, and not the EC725 Super Cougar.

 

[Ananda]

https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/05/article/to-pacify-trump-indonesia-seeks-american-arms/

This article seems confirm on I've been putting before, that asside on logistics issue, buying American also related to trade issue.. especially with Trump administration.

6 C-130J, and 32 F-16 V, seems support what the other local news being put before, that the J's is the AF priority for transport and any plan replacement for Hawk 100/200 seems showing the V as preference.

SAAB also showing their effort for Gripen E, and their willingness for generous ToT deal with DI. TNI, also indicating that purchase of Su-35 is still part of their preference to balance their inventory of East and West asset.

Thus despite SAAB offer, the V still in preference so far, as balancing act on Su-35 deal and further balancing Trade issue.

The 8 fighter SQ the article mentioned do match the information on local media from the Air Force plan up to 2024:
2 F-16 A/B/C/D refurbished (24 C/D 52id plus 10 A/B OCU),
2 Flankers ( Su-27/30/35),
2 Hawk 100/200 (which indication being replaced by F-16V or Gripen E as other candidate running ),
1 TA-50 LIFT (being enhance more on light fighters capabilities),
1 Super Tucano COIN.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Found this photo from BPPT (Indonesian Technology Development Agency), which seems coordinate UAV development. This picture shown their concept for MALE UAV being developed with coordination of several government companies like DI/IAe, LEN (government owned electronics company) and Indonesian Space Agency (LAPAN).

Interestingly, before DI already told publicly that they are pursuing cooperation with TAI on developing TAI Anka MALE UAV.
Whether this project related to that or seperate development, is not clear yet.

It is unclear in which stage the development is of the Indonesian MALE UAV, also about the Indonesian/Turkish version of the Anka.
But here is a video about the Anka-S.

 

[Ananda]

From what I gather from local media..they (DI) don't want Anka, but they want to build their own MALE based either from Anka or Chinese Winn Long. Well it depends on which supplier can provide 'more benefits'.

I put 'benefits' in loose term..after all this is still Indonesia..no matter how far the 'safe guard' being placed on defense procurement..well just let's say there are some 'benefits' that can still 'slip through' the safe guard mechanism..

 

[Ananda]

Indonesia designates two Panther helicopters for anti-submarine operations | Jane's 360

Of 11 Panther that being purchased from DI (collaboration with Airbus) for TNI-AL for now only two being equipped for ASW purpose. The rest in multipurpose config, although the Navy stated they can be reconfigure for ASW if needed.

It's seems related to the PKR Frigates. Since now only two new Frigates already had in the inventory, they will only equipped two Panther as ASW.
The rest of Light Frigate/Corvettes will used multipurpose config Panther.