Indonesian Aero News

[Ananda]

https://www.janes.com/article/90767/chinese-ch-4-uav-arrives-in-surabaya-for-demonstration-flight

Chinese UAV arrived in Surabaya for demo or trial with TNI. Interesting it's arrived and will doing trial with Indonesian Navy (TNI-AL) airbase, eventough in the media, Mindef told that the users of MALE UAV will be the Air Force (TNI-AU).

Both TNI-AU and TNI-AL Aviation operated MPA, and one of the usage of MALE being assessed by TNI is for maritime surveillance. Whether this mean TNI-AL Aviation in the end will operated some of their own MALE UAV or the MALE UAV will be operated jointly by TNI-AU and TNI-AL will remain to be seen.

Chine CH-4 and Turkish ANKA is strongly rumoured as front runners for Indonesia MALE UCAV, as local manufacture also aiming for MALE Market but both Anka and CH-4 is rumoured being assessed not only on MALE capabilities but also UCAV ones.

 

[ngatimozart]

https://www.janes.com/article/90767/chinese-ch-4-uav-arrives-in-surabaya-for-demonstration-flight

Chinese UAV arrived in Surabaya for demo or trial with TNI. Interesting it's arrived and will doing trial with Indonesian Navy (TNI-AL) airbase, eventough in the media, Mindef told that the users of MALE UAV will be the Air Force (TNI-AU).

Both TNI-AU and TNI-AL Aviation operated MPA, and one of the usage of MALE being assessed by TNI is for maritime surveillance. Whether this mean TNI-AL Aviation in the end will operated some of their own MALE UAV or the MALE UAV will be operated jointly by TNI-AU and TNI-AL will remain to be seen.

Chine CH-4 and Turkish ANKA is strongly rumoured as front runners for Indonesia MALE UCAV, as local manufacture also aiming for MALE Market but both Anka and CH-4 is rumoured being assessed not only on MALE capabilities but also UCAV ones.

Call me paranoid (great Black Sabbath album) but I'd be somewhat concerned about operating a Chinese MALE especially in the SCS and adjoining areas. How secure would it be? How much data, both real time and stored, would be uploaded / transmitted to China? How much would the Chinese be able to control spoof what was being sent back to the Indonesian controllers?

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Call me paranoid (great Black Sabbath album) but I'd be somewhat concerned about operating a Chinese MALE especially in the SCS and adjoining areas. How secure would it be? How much data, both real time and stored, would be uploaded / transmitted to China? How much would the Chinese be able to control spoof what was being sent back to the Indonesian controllers?

Yes indeed, its like to use a 5G-network and CCTV surveillance systems provided by Huawei, you dont know what end up at the Chinese intelligence agencies...
Lets hope also that these UAV are not from the famous Made-in-China quality and durability.

Btw its remarkable that they sent the CASC CH-4 , i thought the air force ordered the Chengdu Wing Loong II UAV...

 

[Ananda]

Call me paranoid (great Black Sabbath album) but I'd be somewhat concerned about operating a Chinese MALE especially in the SCS and adjoining areas. How secure would it be? How much data, both real time and stored, would be uploaded / transmitted to China? How much would the Chinese be able to control spoof what was being sent back to the Indonesian controllers?

I believe this is the questions that now related to all purchase on electronic system. Remember where Turkey try to convince US and NATO that they will have full control on all data that S-400 sensors and system. Thus Russia can't have access to what Turkey's S-400 has on NATO and US assests working in Turkish territory.

Thus, I believe one of the aspects on trials also related to how secure TNI can control those UAV. Same consideration will also going to be applied to Turkish ANKA systems.
Some time ago some local on line 'journalist' put rumours on local forum or Media on the matter of Israel has back door to IAI Searcher used by TNI-AU.
If not mistaken, some source from TNI-AU already denied this on internet in local forums, but the suspicion on this still linggered with some local on line 'journalist'.

My opinion on this is back on how far TNI will get access to the software 'codes' and algorithms. In fact even if you have local made UAV that using foreign 'vendors' on the software and systems, potential leak can still happen if you can't control all the codes. This thing can happen to all civilians and military systems.

Is all back to how far the original vendors can gain access to the codes and how far the users in same time can control who can gain access to the software codes of their equipment.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Chinese CH-4 UAV arrives in Surabaya for demonstration flight | Jane's 360

Chinese UAV arrived in Surabaya for demo or trial with TNI. Interesting it's arrived and will doing trial with Indonesian Navy (TNI-AL) airbase, eventough in the media, Mindef told that the users of MALE UAV will be the Air Force (TNI-AU).

Both TNI-AU and TNI-AL Aviation operated MPA, and one of the usage of MALE being assessed by TNI is for maritime surveillance. Whether this mean TNI-AL Aviation in the end will operated some of their own MALE UAV or the MALE UAV will be operated jointly by TNI-AU and TNI-AL will remain to be seen.

Chine CH-4 and Turkish ANKA is strongly rumoured as front runners for Indonesia MALE UCAV, as local manufacture also aiming for MALE Market but both Anka and CH-4 is rumoured being assessed not only on MALE capabilities but also UCAV ones.

Last week a single CH-4 UAV arrived in Surabaya. Here some photos from various sources. On the background a naval NC212 is clearly visible.

But i actually still wonder why a CH-4 has arrived while the TNI-AU has ordered the Wing Loong II.
DEFENSE STUDIES: Chinese CH-4 UAV Arrives in Surabaya for Demonstration Flight

 

[Ananda]

But i actually still wonder why a CH-4 has arrived while the TNI-AU has ordered the Wing Loong II.

There's no definite contract yet on what TNI-AU order as MALE UAV. The Wing Loong being talked like as what TNI-AU ordered only by some local forumers based on what one comment in local media a 'senior' official.
Thus like I said in several post, I only treat what circulated in local forums and media only as 'rumours' until there's definitive contract and time table of procurement.

Local media and forums full of circulating info on procurement from Iver, F-16V, Chinooks,etc..including MALE UAV as already a done deal. That's why I only put in here, if the deal already in definite contract or already arrived or in manufacture process.

After all in this administration, even the one being said already a 'done' deal by one minister can still put in hold by another one. Look at Su-35 saga.

Back to this MALE UAV, this is still according to the article on 'trial' basis. So we still do not know which Chinese UAV or Turkish ones, or even local ones that's going to end up as MALE UAV for TNI.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

There's no definite contract yet on what TNI-AU order as MALE UAV. The Wing Loong being talked like as what TNI-AU ordered only by some local forumers based on what one comment in local media a 'senior' official.
Thus like I said in several post, I only treat what circulated in local forums and media only as 'rumours' until there's definitive contract and time table of procurement.

Local media and forums full of circulating info on procurement from Iver, F-16V, Chinooks,etc..including MALE UAV as already a done deal. That's why I only put in here, if the deal already in definite contract or already arrived or in manufacture process.

After all in this administration, even the one being said already a 'done' deal by one minister can still put in hold by another one. Look at Su-35 saga.

Back to this MALE UAV, this is still according to the article on 'trial' basis. So we still do not know which Chinese UAV or Turkish ones, or even local ones that's going to end up as MALE UAV for TNI.

Sad but true....the Su-35 saga....looks like the acquisition process is stuck/on hold.
A400M....i dont believe in that anymore.....
Iver Huitfeldt-class? From the beginning it felt like the imagination of fanboys went out of control after an Indonesian delegation visited one of the ships.
The Klewang Class stealth trimaran 63 meter patrol boats....thats also a hopeless project.

 

[Ananda]

Drone CH4 ditampilkan dalam latgab TNI "Dharma Yudha 2019"

Edit:
Change the article to Antara News Agency one. Well for me Antara is more reliable as source.
Base on this CH-4B is not just in trial, but already choosen as TNI first MALE UAV. According to this the TNI Chief says they are going to procured at least 6 MALE UAV of CH-4B with capabilities to be armed (as UCAV).

The trial of CH-4 at least if I interpreted the content, related to the combine operation of UAV with Manned Aircraft. In such the Chief in media told about using more network centric capabilities on this exercise. I still not found more concrete source on how far the network centric scope that's been using. Thus I can only assume the network centric more on to network /data coordination on ground control level and not between aircraft yet.

Not much more additional info on whether this CH-4B will be the only MALE UAV or not, considering previously DI seems shown their preference on Turkish ANKA.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

The trial of CH-4 at least if I interpreted the content, related to the combine operation of UAV with Manned Aircraft. In such the Chief in media told about using more network centric capabilities on this exercise. I still not found more concrete source on how far the network centric scope that's been using. Thus I can only assume the network centric more on to network /data coordination on ground control level and not between aircraft yet.

Not much more additional info on whether this CH-4B will be the only MALE UAV or not, considering previously DI seems shown their preference on Turkish ANKA.

"I still not found more concrete source on how far the network centric scope that's been using. Thus I can only assume the network centric more on to network /data coordination on ground control level and not between aircraft yet."

Yes, i also think it was between the UAV and the control center in Surabaya, not between the UAV and other aircrafts. It would also be impossible that the CH-4B is compatible with the different F-16 versions and the Su-27/-30, its not like the Su-57 linked with the Okhotnik UCAV.

But it stays unclear to which two squadrons the 6 CH-4B will be added, maybe SkU51 will be one of these two?

 

[Ananda]

51st squadron is the only squadron in TNI-AU that's created as being specialist in UAV. There are some talking by TNI-AU on building at least 2 UAV specialist squadron, however until now seems 51st is the only UAV specialist squadron.

Some talk in media and local forum on State Owned Electronics company (PT. LEN) in planning develop Indonesia 'owned' network protocol thus will enable Western source system to talk with non western source system. However as far as I know, even India with much larger IT based then Indonesia still not able to make "all" their various sources system to talk to each other directly.

I believe for Indonesia condition it is easier for network centric to be done through one centralised center that handle all data traffic. I have real doubt we can make all TNI's asset wich came from various sources originations to talk each other directly.
Unless we can get the original source code from each system.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

End 2017 Indonesia ordered a complete unit of the NASAMS, (Indonesia Buys Norwegian SAM System), announced on October 31 by the Norwegian arms maker, the $77 million contract will be for one complete unit of the NASAMS, including “command posts, radars, launchers, radios and integration, and training and logistics support.”

Until now ive never seen any component of the NASAMS belonging to TNI-AU on photo or video, no command post, launchers or the AN/MPQ-64F1 Sentinel 3D radar. Are they even delivered?

 

[Ananda]

Until now ive never seen any component of the NASAMS belonging to TNI-AU on photo or video, no command post, launchers or the AN/MPQ-64F1 Sentinel 3D radar. Are they even delivered

Come on @Sandhi Yudha , you know what to expect on defense procurement in this administration..

There's nothing definite, until the asset already come.. whether it's from Foreign supplier or local supplier..no amount of info even it's official can be called definite.

Just look on that CH-4B UAV..it's not the Chinese UAV that many in media or local forum 'analyst' with the so called 'inside' information predicted as front runner at first time..then the CH-4B name come only later on.

So until the asset come..I will only put as rumours or 'grain of salt'..
At least from local supplier, sometime we can got some info on the 'manufacturing' process.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Yes this administration is full of surprises and incorrect announcements.
Pretending that the Esemka cars are fully developed and build by Indonesian schoolchildren while in fact these are Geely's straight delivered completely built up from China, is also such an example...

Anyway here are some photos from armed CH-4s in service by the Iraqi Air force.

CASC CH-4 Unmanned Combat Aerial Vehicle

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Its not often that we see our airforce train at night. Here an interesting video about SkU 3 and SkU 15 during the Sikatan Daya 2019 exercise. Only Mk82 freefall bombs are used in this exercise.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Test flights of the N219 just continue, this recent video of testflights from the second prototype, PK-XDP, is uploaded yesterday by Deni184, he seems to live near Bandara Busawiru.

Hopefully begin next year IPTN can finish the certification process.

 

[Ahmad]

Jokowi administration focuses more on infrastructure project and village development. They dont spend much on USD due to weakening rupiah and trade deficit but I do hope they save some dollars for KFX/IFX program. It is difficult time economically due to trade deficit we are suffering so dont expect we buy many weapon from outside during this administration. Let's hope current administration can fix our competitiveness and curb trade deficit so that we can start buying weapon again after 2024. There is commitment to buy 50 IFX fighter jet after 2026 but it needs economic capacity to do so, at least our currency should be much stronger when that time come.

I hope Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono join the coalition so that he can be another positive influencer for the continuation of Indonesia participation on KFX/IFX program.

 

[Ananda]

However that's not what the way they talk publicly in Media. The Armed Forces budget keep getting higher, but what they are really planning for medium long term project that's in question.

Jokowi administration keep talking for enhancing Naval and Air capabilities, however so far what they are actually put in contract mostly related to Army stuff. I'm talking on what contract originated from this administration and not from previous one. Most of what getting to Navy and Air Force actually coming from contract originated in previous administration.

This is what many 'Jokowow' in Indonesian local forum and media does not want to admit. This administration have big problem in planning and implementation. What they are planning and what they are implementing can be changing.
Even the infrastructure project like Trans Sumatra or Trans Jawa highways have ground work from previous administration.

The projects that really plan and put the ground work by Jokowi administration, especially in defense area that have tendencies changing from original plan or languishing.
Take the Air Force plan, they want to have network oriented infrastructure, they want to have AEW capabilities, they want to have Air Logistics and Tankers capabilities, at the same time they want to have 3 new fighters squadron.
However how to achieve this ? They say some of them will start the ground work before MEF2 finish..now MEF 2 close to finish, but only small proportion of what originated plan begin the ground working.

This really shown some incapable people in Mindef. Let's see after second term begin. See if Jokowi have better implementating his own agenda.

Enough of my ranting, that's why I said before, don't expect much from whatever they are planning..all can be changing suddenly..so just talk on what already have definite contract, or already coming. Everything else from local media and forum..just treat it as rumours even if this come from Mindef or some high ranking brass. Unless it's already in contract yet or has been confirm from more reliable International sources.

This is not the matter of Budget..this is the matter of poor implementation.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

A quite logic step to transfer two C-130 from SkU 17 to SkU 31.

https://tni-au.mil.id/danlanud-halim-p-pimpin-apel-khusus-re-alokasi-dua/

So, is SkU 33 at Makassar already operational? And does it get its aircrafts from 31 and 32, or will 33 get some new/second hand C-130 bought from abroad?

 

[Ananda]

So, is SkU 33 at Makassar already operational? And does it get its aircrafts from 31 and 32, or will 33 get some new/second hand C-130 bought from abroad?

Seems the 33 will get Older Hercules, eventough before some Air Force brass talking in media about 33 will get most of ex RAAF C-130H. So, I suspect 33 will get some ex RAAF C-130H and those B that allready being refurbished to H standard.

I just talk based on historical tendencies..at the 80's when the H comes, the B's being moved to 32 from 31. 32 if not mistaken was the home for AN-12 before.
So, if this repeated then the plan J's will go to 31.

 

[tonnyc]

But if you think Subianto's any better, hahahaha. Dude, the guy was an army general of the same mold as Ryacudu. He too believes communism and LGBTQ are the major threat against Indonesia. He too believes that Kopassus is third in the world (third in what and how this was determined was never actually defined). His defense program is going to be exactly like Ryacudu, except more, since there won't be a finance minister to firmly say no to the foolishness.

Mr. Prabowo Subianto has been appointed defense minister. This is a political appointment to get his party, Gerindra, to join the government. However, as I mentioned before Prabowo Subianto is of the same mold as Ryacudu. I expect that Indonesia's defense capability will basically stay the same as now, that is, understrength in comparison to its size, population, and economy.

ObAirForceBit: I expect the Su-35 purchase to push through under him, though for the wrong reasons. Generals of his age group tend to believe in the myth of the man behind the gun rather ghan understanding that it's a systems fight. Su-35 would be bought because they think it's an F-35 killer instead because it's a component in a comprehensive detection and countermeasures network.

We may see another attempt at "bela negara". Prabowo is the guy who boasted that he wants to stop all imports and that Indonesia will be destroyed in 2030 if he's not president. So I am bracing myself for another five years of mediocrity. On the bright side the minister of finance is good, so she can act as a check, and the foreign affairs minister is also good, so she can steer us away from situations where military power has to be used.