Indonesian Aero News

[Ananda]

No new development on this AW-101..However the based on accusations of Corruption Commission (KPK) from what I gather is the AW-101 being bought without or not in line with specification being put forward.

The specifications according to KPK is for military Transport/SAR, but the AW-101 being delivered still based on VIP configuration.
Thus shown this AW-101 are part of original India's order of VIP AW-101, that it self it also part of Corruption charges in India.

It can be suspected as part of political manouver from present admin toward previous admin..after all this administration procurement process are being accuses by some opposition as politically motivated.

Still it doesn't hide the fact that this AW-101 come with VIP configuration instead Military Transport/SAR specs that being promised.
KPK from what I heard is suspicious that AW wants to off load their Indian trouble deal to other costumer's..which in this case try to off load those AW-101 to Indonesia.

How this going to be turn out..will remain to be seen.. especially with the election comes near..

 

[John Fedup]

Leonardo was recently awarded a contract to upgrade the Canadian Cormant fleet (CH-149 based on AW-101). Some VH-71s (VIP version of AW-101s from cancelled US Presidential helicopter program) will be completed as CH-149s. The plan is 7 additional helicopters so Leonardo may try to push some of the Indian AW-101s to the RCAF assuming the cost of upgrading them to CH-149s is reasonable. Once the spares issues were sorted, these helicopters have performed well and certainly have been less problematic than our CH-148s (based on Sikorsky H-92). The likely reason Leonardo got the SAR upgrade contract is because the Canadian government screwed them on the FWSAR contract which Airbus won. Certain tender details weren’t provided to Leonardo. Corruption in aviation isn’t just in India or Indonesia.

 

[Ananda]

Indo Defence 2018: Indonesia’s Su-35 procurement faces CAATSA hurdle | Jane's 360

Yet in the same time..Mindef other sources keep telling the media that the Sukhoi deal still on going, and the first batch of two Su-35 still on schedule to be delivered before Oktober next year.

Keep saying that the present admin procurement full of political deal, that sometimes need to read between the lines what's the final aimed will be.

Some of the US Congressmen already told media that since India, Vietnam and Indonesia has already concluded some arms deal with Russia before Caatsa..then US will not calculate them on the equations..

However unlike India and Vietnam that has majority of their arsenal on Russian side of procurement..the current proportion of Indonesian arsenal that comming from non US/Western sources is in minority.
Thus I don't know if US pressure Indonesia on Russian deal before more Russian armament come in Indonesia's inventory..
Or it's simply another political games this administration play toward getting best deal for them from both side..

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

I didn't know that the Indonesian Police has ordered a C295 from IPTN, so i was quite surprised to find out that two months ago a C295 was delivered to POLRI. Here some videos about the delivery two months ago.

 

[Ananda]

Proses pengembangan pesawat tempur KFX/IFX capai 20 persen - ANTARA News

The Indonesian team that responsible for Indonesian parts of KFX/IFX program made public announcement on their progress.
Basically they said the final design for batch 1 already approved send despite some news on late payment and demand for renegotiation from Indonesian parts, the participation for Indonesia in the project still on..and this Fighter will set to be Indonesian AF fighter of the future.

The plan is for 168 Fighter with 120 to ROKAF and 48 to TNI-AU.
This is the number according to sources in South Korean media and forums are part of Batch 1 only.
From what I gather, the cooperation will be for Batch 1 and for next batch both Indonesia and ROK can have option to continue their cooperation or developed their own way.

This from what I gather due to different in philosophy of needs (for batch 2 and next). Indonesian for example wants to have more space for fuel to augment range..thus did not matter to have weapons port outside fuselage (or on conformal weapons ports)..while ROKAF wants more stealth characteristics thus can accept less range.

Also seems Indonesia tend to go to European suppliers then ROK than want to go to US ones. Reported that for Indonesian missiles of choices..tend to go to Meteor or other MBDA products.. while ROK tend to go to Raytheon products.

Thus the picture of models being circulated is for batch one.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

At last, after many months without any news about this program, the second prototype of the N219 performed its first flight. The first flight was on 21 december 2018.

PT DI Sukses Terbangkan Purwarupa Kedua N219

2018-12-22 00:00:00
INILAH, Bandung - PT Dirgantara Indonesia (DI) merampungkan perakitan purwarupa kedua N219. Pesawat terbang karya anak bangsa itu langsung dilakukan flight test perdana.

Direktur Utama PT DI Elfien Goentoro mengatakan, uji terbang itu dilakukan pada Jumat (21/12/2018) kemarin. Bertempat di Bandara Husein Sastranegara, purwarupa pesawat kedua N219 diterbangkan Captain Esther Gayatri Saleh sebagai pilot in command (PIC) dan Captain Ervan Gustanto sebagai first officer (FO).

Selain mereka, di dalam purwarupa pesawat pertama ikut Yustinus Kus Wardana dan Adriwiyanto sebagai flight test engineer (FTE). Kedua insinyur itu memastikan setiap tahapan pengujian terbang dilaksanakan dengan baik dan benar serta terjamin unsur keselamatannya.


Complete article at: PT. Dirgantara Indonesia (Persero)

 

[Ananda]

Gebrakan Awal Tahun, PTDI Terima Kontrak Pengadaan 8 Heli Angkut Berat dan 9 Heli Serbu

From Indonesian On Line Media Angkasa Review sites.
The contract with PT. DI involved 8 H225M Caracal and 9 412EPI. This shown Airbus and Bell strong presence with Indonesian rotary wing procurement, due to involvement of DI license manufacturing agreement with both suppliers.

Effort from Augusta to break Airbus/DI hold with AF procurement, meet strong back fire..with single AW101 now practically still grounded pending corruption case.

The Army so far try to circumstances that, by procuring capabilities that not being provided by Caracal, like their procurement of MI-17V. They also try to get S-70, but I do feel the capabilities is too close to H225M, which will have difficult to sell politically (unless other agreement involving DI can be conducted).
I suspect additional Bell 412EPI being procurred instead S-70.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Gebrakan Awal Tahun, PTDI Terima Kontrak Pengadaan 8 Heli Angkut Berat dan 9 Heli Serbu

From Indonesian On Line Media Angkasa Review sites.
The contract with PT. DI involved 8 H225M Caracal and 9 412EPI. This shown Airbus and Bell strong presence with Indonesian rotary wing procurement, due to involvement of DI license manufacturing agreement with both suppliers.

Effort from Augusta to break Airbus/DI hold with AF procurement, meet strong back fire..with single AW101 now practically still grounded pending corruption case.

The Army so far try to circumstances that, by procuring capabilities that not being provided by Caracal, like their procurement of MI-17V. They also try to get S-70, but I do feel the capabilities is too close to H225M, which will have difficult to sell politically (unless other agreement involving DI can be conducted).
I suspect additional Bell 412EPI being procurred instead S-70.

Its better to stay with the Mi-17s and the NBell 412s (412EPI, so improved glass cockpit version with P&WC PT6T-9 and FADEC?). The UH-60 has less capacity and is much, much more expensive than the 412. Its only faster. Besides that, it has completely different engines, no PT6s or Turbomeca Makila's.

 

[Todjaeger]

Its better to stay with the Mi-17s and the NBell 412s (412EPI, so improved glass cockpit version with P&WC PT6T-9 and FADEC?). The UH-60 has less capacity and is much, much more expensive than the 412. Its only faster. Besides that, it has completely different engines, no PT6s or Turbomeca Makila's.

Umm... What?! A Bell 412 has a max personnel lift of 1+14 in a typical civilian non-combat role, while a UH-60 can manage a pilot co-pilot, a pair of crew chief/door gunners and either 11 or 12 fully kitted soldiers (depending on whether optional 12 seat it fitted or note).

Further, the Black Hawk has the door gunner positions located separately from the side doors used for troop ingress/egress. From what I have seen of the Bell 412EP gallery, if a pair of door gunners were on board as well as a co-pilot as part of the crew, that would reduce the passenger/troop lift down to ~11, with the door gunners occupying some of the space used to enter and exit the Bell 412.

In addition, the Bell 412EP max gross weight 5,398 kg, while the MTOGW of a S-70i Black Hawk (the international version) is 9,979 kg, or 10,659 kg with an external load. Reading some other sources, it seems that the empty weight of a Black Hawk is ~1,000 kg less than the max weight of a Bell 412. If memory serves, at least part of the reason the Black Hawk is a heavier bird is due to some of the features and construction, or more specifically, portions of the Black Hawk are armoured, in addition to having a greater cargo or external load capacity.

Please understand that I am not arguing for Indonesia to purchase Black Hawks, rather I am disputing the statement that the UH-60 has less capacity than a Bell 412.

 

[Ananda]

Agree on that. S-70/UH-60 is in different class then Bell 412EP/EPI. It's more close to Caracal class, although in paper Caracal still have bit of margin.

For that, it will be difficult for TNI-AD (the Army) to 'goal' their desire for UH-60. The Army already indicated in local media they want 40 Bell 412 (it's not clear whether this on top existing 412 in the inventory or additional ones). However the voices for UH-60 from the Army seems already tone down.

Politically, like I said in previous post, with DI already involve with Caracal supply chain..it will be difficult for the Armed Forces or any government agency to procure any helicopter in Caracal class.

CH-47 seems still got some traction to be procured (Indonesian Min-Def already stated that in Washington during meeting with Mattis), due it's different class than any Helicopters that DI involved with.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Thank you gentlemen for the correction and explanation.

Here some news from the Indodefence 2018 exposition. The news article is from November, but i just found and read it yesterday.

Indo Defence 2018: KAI wins Indonesian air force deals
Jon Grevatt, Jakarta - Jane's Defence Weekly
09 November 2018

Seen here in Peruvian service, three additional KAI KT-1 trainer aircraft will be supplied to the Indonesian Air Force under a contract signed at Indo Defence 2018. Source: IHS Markit/Gareth Jennings
Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) has signed contracts with the Indonesian Air Force (Tentara Nasional Indonesia - Angkatan Udara: TNI-AU) to supply KT-1B Woong-Bee basic trainer aircraft and to upgrade capabilities on the service's T-50i Golden Eagle advanced jet trainer (AJT) aircraft.

The contracts - announced at the Indo Defence show in Jakarta on 8 November - are collectively worth about KRW100 billion (USD89 million) and feature the export of three KT-1B aircraft and a programme to fit radars and gun systems to the T-50i.

According to the terms of the deals, KAI will deliver three KT-1B aircraft within 28 months of contract signing and complete the Golden Eagle upgrade within 25 months.

More at : Indo Defence 2018: KAI wins Indonesian air force deals | Jane's 360


These 3 additional KT-1B seems to be attrition replacement, we lost 3 of our brandnew modern KT-1B the last years because of our own stupidity.
Also the upgrade of our teethless empty fitted-for-but-not-with T-50i with radar (i expect AN/APG-67) and gun is much needed.

 

[Todjaeger]

Agree on that. S-70/UH-60 is in different class then Bell 412EP/EPI. It's more close to Caracal class, although in paper Caracal still have bit of margin.

For that, it will be difficult for TNI-AD (the Army) to 'goal' their desire for UH-60. The Army already indicated in local media they want 40 Bell 412 (it's not clear whether this on top existing 412 in the inventory or additional ones). However the voices for UH-60 from the Army seems already tone down.

Politically, like I said in previous post, with DI already involve with Caracal supply chain..it will be difficult for the Armed Forces or any government agency to procure any helicopter in Caracal class.

CH-47 seems still got some traction to be procured (Indonesian Min-Def already stated that in Washington during meeting with Mattis), due it's different class than any Helicopters that DI involved with.

Out of curiosity, is Indonesia not interested getting any Mi-26 'Halo' helicopters? Or would they realistically be too large to use for rotary lift?

 

[Ananda]

Out of curiosity, is Indonesia not interested getting any Mi-26 'Halo' helicopters? Or would they realistically be too large to use for rotary lift?

Mi-26 is part of Heavy Lift helicopters Assessment, with CH-47.
At one point, one of Army Brass tounted the idea of Hybrid Heavy Lift Helicopters Sq with both Ch-47 and Mi-46.

However in Washington, the Indonesian Min-Def told the media that they will only put CH-47 as Heavy Lift helicopters being procurred.
The idea for heavy lift helicopters is to be part of disaster operation. Seems the assessment shown Mi-26 is just too big for effective operation in some disaster area..
If not mistaken, it's considered not really sufficient on operating in some 'tight' area in archipelago.
The assessment seems shown combination of Mi-17 and CH-47 is enough for the need of rear entrance cargo helicopters.

 

[Ananda]

TNI AD - Helikopter CH-47 Chinook, Heli Transport Sekaligus Heli Tempur yang Andal

From TNI-AD website. The article indicated that initial delivery for 4 CH-47F will begin this year. Air International on January 2019 edition indicated that 3-5 CH-47F will be part of initial procurement package.

The deal being contracted in 2016 and Boeing already involve with PT. DI as part of technical off set deal. Still not clear on what the off set, but being rumoured on MRO deal and further involvement of DI on commercial parts outsourcing.

Something that the Russian did not give on Mi-26 offering, which strengthen CH-47 winning the bid, for TNI-AD heavy lift helicopter.

 

[Ananda]

Indonesian Army outlines Chinook requirement | Jane's 360

Further information on Indonesian Army CH-47 procurement plan. I don't know where they quoted on 10 potential numbers. Local news only talk on 4 initial procurement.

 

[foxdemon]

CH-47 is a usefully helicopter. In the ADF, they are referred to as “chooks”, which is a colloquial expression for chicken. Maybe the TNI will refer to them as “Ayam”?

 

[oldsig127]

CH-47 is a usefully helicopter. In the ADF, they are referred to as “chooks”, which is a colloquial expression for chicken. Maybe the TNI will refer to them as “Ayam”?

...but also a contraction of CHinOOK.

In my day they were also described much more colourfully on account of the number of stone bruises gained and amount of skin sandblasted off while hooking on equipment pallets.

oldsig

 

[Ananda]

CH-47 is a usefully helicopter. In the ADF, they are referred to as “chooks”, which is a colloquial expression for chicken. Maybe the TNI will refer to them as “Ayam”?

Well, probably they just call it 'cenuk'..since it's closely how in Indonesian you pronounce 'Chinook'.

Anyway when CH-47 do come to inventory, it's the second time Indonesian Armed Force operated Heavy Lifters helicopters after MI-6 in the 60's.
For that some 'left' leaning politicians being rumoured still champion induction on MI-6 direct decendence Mi-26

Again it's rumoured when the Min-Def and the Army openly shown support for CH-47, those factions then try to push MI-26 procurement through State Owned Enterprise (SOE) scheme..just like the scheme being proposed on A-400 procurement (as being mentioned on my older posts).

The assessment on Mi-26 vs Ch-47 asside operational versatility and costs, offset and tot offering..from my understanding also involve long term support package. This where Boeing being told have stronger offering compared to Russian Helicopters.

For that the Min-Def and TNI 'rumoured' told the politicians, they don't mind operating Mi-26 as long as the procurement and maintenance do not come from their pocket/budget. Just like what the Air Force told on A-400 when they stated on their preference on C-130J.

All of this I heard only from sources close to State Owned Enterprise ministry (Thus no media confirmation yet). Which now they are making assessments whose SOE going to beared the cost, feasibility on commercial side..and if not feasible..how to 'reject' politically

Just 'loved' how the present Admin 'jugling' SOE policy between commercial feasibility against political whims on some factions that support this administration in Parliements.

 

[Ananda]

Attached is the report from TNI-AU website on the assessment of 3 tankers (KC-46, A330MRTT, and IL-78).

The ilyushin got lowest score is not surprising since from beginning preference for ability on both Boom and Probe/Drouge system has been put as one of main factor.
However bit surprised that KC-46 got higher score, seems determined by 3 things:
1. Procurement Price,
2. Weight (KC-46 has lower weight, this will be able to operate from 90% of TNI-AU air based compared to 71% of A330).
3. Technical Transfer (ToT), and domestic industry involvement.

The third one bit surprised that KC-46 got higher score, since local industry participation with A330 should be higher, considered GMF already have certification on handling large service and update on A330 MRO. Also with long term involvement of PTDI with Airbus supply chain.

Anyway the procurement costs only calculate new aircraft, but seems not calculate using ex Airliner A330 modified to MRTT. This in my opinion should also be calculated, since many MRTT actually rebuild ex Airliner.

Garuda if not mistaken will change some of their A-330 especially the ones from 90's with A-330 Neo that schedule beginning this year will come. Some of them if not mistaken owned by Garuda and not Leasing company.
This in my opinion should be considered on procurement princing. Don't know how much it cost rebuild ex Airliner compared to procure new ones though.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Attached is the report from TNI-AU website on the assessment of 3 tankers (KC-46, A330MRTT, and IL-78).

The ilyushin got lowest score is not surprising since from beginning preference for ability on both Boom and Probe/Drouge system has been put as one of main factor.
However bit surprised that KC-46 got higher score, seems determined by 3 things:
1. Procurement Price,
2. Weight (KC-46 has lower weight, this will be able to operate from 90% of TNI-AU air based compared to 71% of A330).
3. Technical Transfer (ToT), and domestic industry involvement.

The third one bit surprised that KC-46 got higher score, since local industry participation with A330 should be higher, considered GMF already have certification on handling large service and update on A330 MRO. Also with long term involvement of PTDI with Airbus supply chain.

Anyway the procurement costs only calculate new aircraft, but seems not calculate using ex Airliner A330 modified to MRTT. This in my opinion should also be calculated, since many MRTT actually rebuild ex Airliner.

Garuda if not mistaken will change some of their A-330 especially the ones from 90's with A-330 Neo that schedule beginning this year will come. Some of them if not mistaken owned by Garuda and not Leasing company.
This in my opinion should be considered on procurement princing. Don't know how much it cost rebuild ex Airliner compared to procure new ones though.

It is indeed a remarkable assessment. On many points it is obvious that in reality the A330MRTT has the most positive result.

Yes, the A330 has a higher MTOW, but it also has a higher fuel storage capacity, 111.000 kg compared to the 96.000 from the KC-46.

And like you said, GMF has decades of experience with the A330. The 767 was never used by any Indonesian airline (with exception of wet leases of umroh/haji flights), the A330 is in use by Garuda Indonesia, Lion Air and in the past also Batavia Air.

Besides that IPTN produce much more parts for Airbus aircrafts than for Boeings for many years.
"Unit costs KC-46 US$ 150-250 millions" : That unit price is based on a contract between USAF and Boeing for 19 KC-46A. Well, you don't have to be a genius to understand that if TNI-AU (a non-Western and non-NATO air force) orders a much smaller amount from Boeing, the price will be substantial higher.
The A330 has a higher ceiling and a superior range compared to the KC-767/KC-46.

Specially if we look to the “Tabel 5. Tabel Kriteria dan Bobot Penilaian”, it seems it is made incorrectly by purpose. Like somebody get paid to do so.

Even many of the most loyal allies of the US, choose the A330MRTT above the KC-767/KC-46, and that is not without a reason.