The only gripe I had against the Andover (handover/leftover) was the abysmal leg room, I always wound up flying in the Cammo ones, never the white and blues. You are right about servicing costs as by 1979 we where having to get parts manufactured especially for us (at huge cost) as a significant number of parts where not common with the 748, from memory it was about half. I was involved in the arranging for 10+ new undercarriage sets as the old ones were life limited.They were effective and a leap in capability over the C47 and B170. The kneeling undercart worked quite well as did the ability to reverse which came in handy more than once. One year at a warbirds Over Wanaka an Andover was going to its designated parking area and couldn't get in so they just reversed out and parked elsewhere much to the enjoyment of us ex RNZAF and the astonishment of the civvies. IIRC they carried landrovers, cars etc. They were luxury to fly in after the B170 that's for sure having flown in bothand the whine of the RR Dart wasn't as noisy as the Bristol Hercules radials of the B170.
Royal New Zealand Air Force
- Thread starter Lucasnz
- Start date
Leg room was and is always an issue with me too as I am 6ft 4in however I just dealt with it and sucked it up because no choice. The best leg room I ever had in RNZAF service as the time I sat in the door of an Iroquois with my feet on the skids, back before that bunch of snowflakes, OSH was even thought of. During my RNZN service my main issue was the height of the deckheads and hatchways. That's why I never went to sea in the Leander Class frigates. One guy I joined the RNZN with was 6ft 9in and he was nicknamed Skylab straight away.
David Fisher loves to beat up on the RNZAF and NZDF. In a single article in 2013 he reckoned that the Orion:
- "was kitted out with full motion video gear to assist with the RWC - although it was never used".
- "can track targets... using laser-guided cameras to zoom into exacting detail"
- has "a camera kit which can pick out faces from kilometres away"
- implied it was being used for domestic policing operations
Breathtakingly wrong and speaks volumes as to his journalistic abilities.
- "was kitted out with full motion video gear to assist with the RWC - although it was never used".
- "can track targets... using laser-guided cameras to zoom into exacting detail"
- has "a camera kit which can pick out faces from kilometres away"
- implied it was being used for domestic policing operations
Breathtakingly wrong and speaks volumes as to his journalistic abilities.
Novascotiaboy
Active Member
Gentlemen
I watched a video today of the Andover and I am left wondering about the fishnet wrap around the passengers? Any experience?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f-aU7fFkK7I
I watched a video today of the Andover and I am left wondering about the fishnet wrap around the passengers? Any experience?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f-aU7fFkK7I
depends on whether he's talking about fishing trawler crews or mt rushmore...
That's the para Andover. You sat on benches along the side and the nets were to stop you being flung forward in the event of a crash or during an assault landing. You were also buckled in with lap belts. That one is at the Air Force Museum here in Christchurch. It was my wife's first ride in a military aircraft as well with a 4 month old baby in tow too
I'll defer to GF's expertise on military imagery capabilities here. If such capabilities were / are being used for domestic policing operations then it will have to been requested by the NZ Police and have the appropriate warrants issued to the NZ Police by a judge. The RNZAF would have been / are providing an ISR capability that would have to comply with NZ law and / or the conditions determined by the warrants.
Regarding his latest story, I did email him last night about the C2 costings and gave him a link to the latest publicly available costing that I have and he quickly replied thanking me for it stating that he will try to amend the error. From the content of his email I presume that he does visit here.
I remember watching an Andover doing assault take offs and landings on the grass at OH not long after we got them, very impressive, even made the C130 look sluggish doing the same thing. From memory when doing this and using the water injection in the engines you decreased engine life by a factor of 1 to 10. for every 1 min used, engine life decreased by 10 min.That's the para Andover. You sat on benches along the side and the nets were to stop you being flung forward in the event of a crash or during an assault landing. You were also buckled in with lap belts. That one is at the Air Force Museum here in Christchurch. It was my wife's first ride in a military aircraft as well with a 4 month old baby in tow too
They were a really good aircraft and a pity that it got so hard to maintain them. I have it in my flight sim and the appropriate whine of course played on loud volume
I don't have the flight sim, but have fond memories of the aircraft, which could get in and out of places like nothing we now have and while shortish on range still went a hell of a lot further and faster than a chopper. Would not like to try to fly to Malaysia in an NH90, as I did in an Andover.They were a really good aircraft and a pity that it got so hard to maintain them. I have it in my flight sim and the appropriate whine of course played on loud volume
No, but I could believe 1000 ft as the Andover would probably be half way there before the Skyhawk left the ground. Until the Skyhawk got a reasonable amount of speed up it was not very spectacular at climbing.
Video of the first time a RAF A400M is flying the Mach Loop. the aircraft has quite a cool sound to it as it approaches towards the camera - almost reminiscent of the Vulcan howl. So maybe this sound will be coming to NZ. Still no word if an A400M is appearing at Ohakea next month.
Novascotiaboy
Active Member
It's been reported this week that Indonesia will be purchasing five A400 Grizzly aircraft for US$2 billion including training, spares and support.
Indonesia approves acquisition of five Airbus A400Ms for USD2 billion | IHS Jane's 360
How will this acquisition impact NZ thinking concerning this type in the minds of those lurking? Seems a very high price for just five aircraft.
Your thoughts?
Indonesia approves acquisition of five Airbus A400Ms for USD2 billion | IHS Jane's 360
How will this acquisition impact NZ thinking concerning this type in the minds of those lurking? Seems a very high price for just five aircraft.
Your thoughts?
A fair portion of the total amount is probably due to the training package and spares. Not sure if the TNI-AU already has sufficient hangars/shelters or whether these will have to be newly built. The Malaysians spent quite a bit on the ground support infrastructure needed for their A400Ms.
There was mention in another forum of Indonesia apparently refuting reports that approval had been granted for the A400Ms.
There was mention in another forum of Indonesia apparently refuting reports that approval had been granted for the A400Ms.
kiwipatriot69
Active Member
My attitude is, tthe more pacific countries operating A400m , the merrier. i wonder what our relations are like with Indonesia though. Good to get an idea of what it might cost Nz as we are replacing five hercules, like for like as the white paper said. With the exchange rate being 70 cents to the US dollar, thats 2.6 Billion of our 20 Billion Budget though.
Strategic to look at shortly after.Will that means less airframes? as it was 2 billion budgeted for the replacement,in that case id rather we go for a C2 Kawasaki or KC390 if the price is right and keep the numbers of airframes up.
Strategic to look at shortly after.Will that means less airframes? as it was 2 billion budgeted for the replacement,in that case id rather we go for a C2 Kawasaki or KC390 if the price is right and keep the numbers of airframes up.
It would seam that a one for one replacement at $US2b (over$NZ2.85b) would be out of the question, I think 5 KC390s and 2C2/A400ms would be more affordable. or reduced numbers of the bigger aircraft could be acquired as was the case with the NH90. However a lot of the training , spares and setup cost don't go down much with reduced aircraft numbers. I think that the overall deal that we can get will have a big bearing on what we get. The Indonesian deal does show how quickly $20b can disappear.
I would take the reports of an Indonesian acquisition of the A400M with some doubt regarding accuracy. There are incidents of the Indonesian Defence Minister announcing an acquisition and the President refuting it, so until the money is handed over and the aircraft appear in TNI–AU markings I would be careful.
I have looked up a few web sights in regard to this announcement and the basic source is quoted as Airbus. This does not mean that the deal is safe in the winding, often corrupt coarse of Indonesian politics at this stage, however if the source is correct one could assume that the price is in the right ball park. I know Ngati, an awful lot of "IFs".
The item does throw into perspective the costs of military programs and I have felt that a lot of the estimations on this site for our up coming programs have been significantly on the low side. I don't see a significant surplus being available from the $20b program
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