Ukranian Crisis

[wsb05]

Croatia is considered to be south central europe

baltic countries are those that have shorelines along the Baltic Sea: In alphabetic order:

Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Germany, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Russia, and Sweden.

Yes I am well aware, you stated russia hijacked croatia. I guess you meant crimea.

 

[swerve]

Russians have been living in the Baltic states since the Great Northern war with Sweden in the 1700's. They didn't all turn up after WW2 like most people think. The ones that were moved into the Baltic's you can't blame for what happened 70 years ago, most are 2nd, or 3rd generation on, why should they be removed, where would they go and what kind of compensation would they get.



Most of them do, it just the older ons who don't. In Riga and Tallinn the cities populations are close to 50% Russian, marginalising them is not a wise move.

I believe the problems people think Russians in the Baltic states pose is significantly less than Muslim immigration to Europe, that is the much greater threat to European security and way of life. But that's another issue not related to this topic.

Nobody said 'all', but denying that most of them arrived after WW2 is ridiculous. Look at the Russian imperial censuses, censuses of independent baltic states, & soviet censuses.

There was Russian immigration up to the breakup of the USSR, & a growing Russian population share. They didn't all arrive 70 years ago. Lithuania went from 2.5% Russian in 1923 to 9.4% in 1989. In Latvia, Russians were 12% in 1897, 10.6% in 1935 - & 34% in 1989. Russians were 8.2% of the population of Estonia in 1934. In 1945, the districts with the highest proportion of Russians were transferred to the RSFSR - but even so, by 1989 Russians were 30.3%.

 

[Feanor]

Mykola Zelenec was an Honorary Consul. Not a full-time diplomat, but someone with another job (usually either a local citizen, or a foreigner with residency) who's given responsibility for consular affairs locally, & is granted limited immunity to allow him to carry out those responsibilities.

He lived in Luhansk. It was his home. He was recognised by the Ukrainian government as having limited diplomatic status, & that status is respected by other governments - e.g. Russia.

But the heroic freedom fighters of Novorossia think differently.

We need more information then we have, to jump to those conclusions.

Nobody said 'all', but denying that most of them arrived after WW2 is ridiculous. Look at the Russian imperial censuses, censuses of independent baltic states, & soviet censuses.

There was Russian immigration up to the breakup of the USSR, & a growing Russian population share. They didn't all arrive 70 years ago. Lithuania went from 2.5% Russian in 1923 to 9.4% in 1989. In Latvia, Russians were 12% in 1897, 10.6% in 1935 - & 34% in 1989. Russians were 8.2% of the population of Estonia in 1934. In 1945, the districts with the highest proportion of Russians were transferred to the RSFSR - but even so, by 1989 Russians were 30.3%.

But either way they've been there for quite some time. Kicking them out now is neither fair, nor practical. Especially when you consider that they not only took what was already there but also built a lot. And in many cases they had no choice. Распределение meant they were sent to the Baltics, by the government, given a job they had to work, and housing they had no real say in. Now, 50-60 years down the line, their children or grandchildren are living there, where they grew up, where their parents lived most of their lives, and are being told they're non-citizens. Because they're Russian. Despite their participation in the social and economic life of the Baltic states for decades...

And the 16th of March commemoration is not official. It was, briefly, but only for two years, & not since 2000. It has since been disowned by not only the government (which has tried to limit it), but by veterans organisations. Attempts to ban it have been made, but courts have ruled the bans to be illegal.

Right. But members of the Seym (parliament) participate in the march. And there has been a push for banning Soviet medals and orders. Which is downright disrespectful not only to Great Patriotic War veterans, but to all those who were awarded distinction during the Soviet era, be they Hero of Labor awards, or Socialist Shock Worker awards.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Yes I am well aware, you stated russia hijacked croatia. I guess you meant crimea.

Yes, it was a typo, I corrected the original when pointed out.

 

[Feanor]

Not sure that is correct using previous maps (Warfare Studies - thanks twain again).

Assuming they are correct based on unit desigs, 30th Mech Bgde only 10-12 days ago was pushing east-south, west-north of Luhansk City (Sabivka). 95th Airmobile Bgde was circa Debal'tseve, so possible if over extended. 28th Mech Bgde is a mystery to this point, I asked a question on a few weeks back.. Seemed uncommitted at that time.

And Donbas Btln was near Popasna (East of Luhansk City) ... If the LNR forces made this statement I would think its possible. Personally, I think this is a piece vs. Ukrainian Independence Day celebrations.

The 30th Mech has been badly mauled in recent fighting. Their command seems to have been captured. The 95th Airmobile should have suffered casualties big enough to make the brigade more of an oversized btln, then anything else. They were the ones that tried to take Shahtersk, twice, using light armor and infantry, and ran into rebel MBTs.

I would disregard RT as a source of information. Just for the future. They're basically garbage on issues like this one.

EDIT: Speaking of Ukrainian Independence Day.. I was a little shocked by this move, today from the DNR rebels in an opposing celebration (if you can call this a celebration) Ukraine POWs March Through Donetsk Streets - Business Insider. Parading POW's is not a smart move IMV.. There are other stories coming out w.r.t UA and rebel POW's, but all unconfirmed.

It's an echo of what the Soviets did, when the marched German POW's through the center of Moscow.

 

[Feanor]

Update.

The rebels are advancing on Severo-Donetsk. Lisichansk, and Debal'tsevo. The rebels also report destroying a government T-72. I'm a little skeptical. I have yet to see photos of government T-72s in action, though apparently some were pulled out of storage for use in the war.

Ополченцы ЛÐР Ñообщают, что начали наÑтупление

Fighting near Ilovaysk, which now appears to be in rebel hands. Note the T-72B in rebel use.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTFCtHaTZi4

A Ukrainian National Guard supply column was allegedly captured near Ilovaysk. Information is unconfirmed.

Îïîë÷åíöû çàõâàòèëè êîëîííó ñíàáæåíèÿ Íàöãâàðäèè

Battle damage in Donetsk.

hrapypris31 -
hrapypris31 -
hrapypris31 -
hrapypris31 -
hrapypris31 -

T-72Bs mod 1989 in rebel hands. Extremely blatant and obvious supplies of Russian weapons.

Т-72Б образца 1989 года оказалÑÑ Ð½Ð° вооружении ополченцев
bmpd -

Photos of government troops.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=224123&d=1408774565
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=224122&d=1408774551
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=224121&d=1408774539
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=224120&d=1408774526

Captured government equipment in Donetsk.

ЛОГОВО ÐЕТОЛЕРÐÐТÐОГО СРЕДÐЕВЕКОВОГО МРÐКОБЕСР- Донецк готовитÑÑ Ðº параду

Large wall of photos from Motorola's rebel detachment.

Wall

T-64s in the conflict zone. Not 100% sure on who they belong to.

http://i.imgur.com/YcqDdtq.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/jgpQeSk.jpg
https://pp.vk.me/c619120/v619120033/13936/VQGwPheYyBc.jpg
https://pp.vk.me/c616924/v616924398/1cf91/_UT3kDgiKI0.jpg

Fragments of a Tochka missile fired by Kiev forces.

http://photos.streamphoto.ru/9/5/9/17854727ff877e58f9da4dace8d5e959.jpg
http://photos.streamphoto.ru/e/5/c/897634cef991242e887f5f13a48a5c5e.jpg
http://photos.streamphoto.ru/c/5/d/c0e06392c22d04985721d2413e4bed5c.jpg

Some unofficial info on casualties say the 25th Airmobile Bde has lost over 500 wounded, and 107 dead. This would mean the brigade is depleted. Given that most casualties are likely to come from the combat component of the brigade, they've lost a very large portion of their fighting strength.

Ð”ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ ÐœÐ¾ÐºÑ€ÑƒÑˆÐ¸Ð½ - Потери 25-й оаÑмбр

The humanitarian convoy is returning to Russia, having offloaded their cargo in Lugansk. Apparently there is an open road from Russia to Lugansk, without government troops...

Вахтенный журнал Ñтареющего пирата - Итак, они пришли...
zloy_odessit -
Íîâîñòè NEWSru.com :: Áåëûå "ÊàìÀÇû", äîñòàâèâøèå ïîìîùü â Ëóãàíñê, âîçâðàùàþòñÿ â Ðîññèþ
КрыÑа из нержавеющей Ñтали - Первые роÑÑийÑкие КамÐЗы возвращаютÑÑ Ð² РоÑÑию
 

 

[Capt. Ironpants]

Mykola Zelenec was an Honorary Consul. Not a full-time diplomat, but someone with another job (usually either a local citizen, or a foreigner with residency) who's given responsibility for consular affairs locally, & is granted limited immunity to allow him to carry out those responsibilities.

He lived in Luhansk. It was his home. He was recognised by the Ukrainian government as having limited diplomatic status, & that status is respected by other governments - e.g. Russia.

But the heroic freedom fighters of Novorossia think differently.


Relboon: don't you think this is a beautiful example of how well the rebels treat people? Why don't you sod off to Russia, since it's obviously the only place where you'd feel at home? Or are you waiting for the same thing to happen in Latvia?

Thanks. The sources I found didn't say he had been living there a long time. That explains it, then. Although it seems prudence would dictate he leave at least for the time being. I still think it odd State and the American press have not been hollering about this, but then there's a lot we don't know. I noticed the OSCE statement was very carefully worded. We don't really know what happened, after all.

It's an echo of what the Soviets did, when the marched German POW's through the center of Moscow.

True. And because it's an echo, it makes a statement that reverberates there. We don't have that history here and it just looks barbaric to us. The other side did similar not so long ago, but it didn't make the news here: https://twitter.com/NinaByzantina/status/503661986534522882

And thanks for the update!

 

[Nick underscore]

It's an echo of what the Soviets did, when the marched German POW's through the center of Moscow.

Yes, I saw the footage. The echo of washing the streets with water trucks after, is another insult in itself..

Thanks for update

 

[swerve]

But either way they've been there for quite some time. Kicking them out now is neither fair, nor practical. Especially when you consider that they not only took what was already there but also built a lot. And in many cases they had no choice. Распределение meant they were sent to the Baltics, by the government, given a job they had to work, and housing they had no real say in. Now, 50-60 years down the line, their children or grandchildren are living there, where they grew up, where their parents lived most of their lives, and are being told they're non-citizens. Because they're Russian. Despite their participation in the social and economic life of the Baltic states for decades...

Agreed, they shouldn't be thrown out. But they're not being thrown out. They're being asked to learn the local language (which is fair enough), offered lessons in it (free or at least subsidised), & choose local citizenship. The majority do so. A minority choose to claim Russian citizenship, & a smaller minority joins extremist groups which, for example, demand the formation of a self-governing region for Russians within Estonia which would hold the majority of the population, & more Estonians than Russians (I found that on the website of one such organisation, which had a map of its proposed region).

 

[KiwiRob]

Despite their participation in the social and economic life of the Baltic states for decades...

This is the key, in my experience Russians dominate the shipbuilding and shiprepair industry in the Baltics, if you removed them there would be no industry. It's like this in many industries.

Most of the Russian populations in Estonia and Latvia are urban, close to 50% of the populations of Riga and Tallinn are Russian, these cities would be dead without them. Since Latvia and Estonia are small countries if they removed or made conditions worse to cause their Russian populations to leave they would kill there countries economies, you can't loose 25% of a countries population.

Estonia and Latvia need to tread very carefully.

Agreed, they shouldn't be thrown out. But they're not being thrown out. They're being asked to learn the local language (which is fair enough), offered lessons in it (free or at least subsidised), & choose local citizenship. The majority do so. A minority choose to claim Russian citizenship, & a smaller minority joins extremist groups which, for example, demand the formation of a self-governing region for Russians within Estonia which would hold the majority of the population, & more Estonians than Russians (I found that on the website of one such organisation, which had a map of its proposed region).

All the Baltic Russians I work with speak at least 3 lanugages, Russian, English and whatever Baltic country they live in's language. It's the older people who have difficulties. Problem is even if you do still speak the local language and are a citizen you're still treated like a second class citizen.

There's been a movement in Oslo for Shria law and a Muslim state covering large sections of the city for several years now. There's nutjobs everywhere wanting special treatment for there people. Russians in Estonia calling for a state of there own are no different. Besides which there is already a Russian Baltic State Kalingingrad, they could always move there, it's a pretty nice place.

 

[Musashi_kenshin]

There's been a movement in Oslo for Shria law and a Muslim state covering large sections of the city for several years now. There's nutjobs everywhere wanting special treatment for there people.

Yes, but there are no suggestions that Iran or Saudi Arabia might try to annex part of Norway because of "persecution" against Muslims. The problem

All the Baltic Russians I work with speak at least 3 lanugages

They are probably not representative of the entire Russian population in the Baltic states, unless you work in some strange industry that means you work with large numbers of people in every sector of the population, including those who do manual jobs like factory workers and toilet cleaners.

swerve was quite clear that he was talking about a minority of people. I don't think that anyone here is claiming that all Russians in that part of the world are flatly refusing to learn the local language.

 

[Twain]

Back on topic, according to this site, large numbers of russian troops are crossing the border all over eastern Ukraine. There is lots of confusion as to what exactly is happening and wildly varying accounts of the number of russian troops involved.

Map of Ukraine Unrest

 

[Nick underscore]

Back on topic, according to this site, large numbers of russian troops are crossing the border all over eastern Ukraine. There is lots of confusion as to what exactly is happening and wildly varying accounts of the number of russian troops involved.

Map of Ukraine Unrest

I have been frequenting that link you provided a while ago.. I'm not sure I believe it fully. There doesn't always seem to be corresponding events (whether biased reports or not) correlating to these incursion points. It's alarming if true, but the points north of Luhansk, across the border have been up for a few days and on this level of movement, surely more reporting by NATO, OSCE and particularly the Kiev govt would be seen..

The southern pushes seem attributable to the recent 1,200 trained recruits from Russia federation and the recent collapse of UA forces, trapped in that pocket. (I'm sure it's not just the 1,200 in this push)

Note: as you may already know, they were very slow to update the DNR and LNR 'areas of control' based on the recent push by rebels (particularly the DNR AOC)

News out today that another Russian humanitarian convoy will be forming up again in the next few days..

 

[wittmanace]

I have been frequenting that link you provided a while ago.. I'm not sure I believe it fully. There doesn't always seem to be corresponding events (whether biased reports or not) correlating to these incursion points. It's alarming if true, but the points north of Luhansk, across the border have been up for a few days and on this level of movement, surely more reporting by NATO, OSCE and particularly the Kiev govt would be seen..

The southern pushes seem attributable to the recent 1,200 trained recruits from Russia federation and the recent collapse of UA forces, trapped in that pocket. (I'm sure it's not just the 1,200 in this push)

Note: as you may already know, they were very slow to update the DNR and LNR 'areas of control' based on the recent push by rebels (particularly the DNR AOC)

News out today that another Russian humanitarian convoy will be forming up again in the next few days..

I suspect the coloumns they refer to are this:

BBC News - Ukraine crisis: 'Column from Russia' moves on Mariupol

 

[Toblerone]

What is the composition of the UA? I read that until 2013 it used conscripts but then became fully professional. But have they called to service reservists after this crisis began? How is the morale and the will to fight?

I'm trying to figure out the reasons that the army's performance seems substandard and also what will happen in some time when/if they stop getting paid.

 

[Nick underscore]

I suspect the coloumns they refer to are this:

BBC News - Ukraine crisis: 'Column from Russia' moves on Mariupol

Yep, agreed southern sector, but the liveUAmap indicates point incursions along the border, north of Luhansk.. Not saying the northern incursions aren't happening, just no reporting coming out confirming this over last 24-72hrs, lest of all the Kiev Govt.

Are LNR and DNR rebel forces working in relative concerted moves? To me, it seems this recent 'second wind', is predominately the DNR rebel units..

 

[wittmanace]

Yep, agreed southern sector, but the liveUAmap indicates point incursions along the border, north of Luhansk.. Not saying the northern incursions aren't happening, just no reporting coming out confirming this over last 24-72hrs, lest of all the Kiev Govt.

Are LNR and DNR rebel forces working in relative concerted moves? To me, it seems this recent 'second wind', is predominately the DNR rebel units..

Based on what I have seen online, this seems to be the case. I suspect there is conflation for effect. I.E. a coloumn in the south and movements near the border elsewhere= battling streams of coloumns from russia along the border.

 

[Feanor]

Agreed, they shouldn't be thrown out. But they're not being thrown out. They're being asked to learn the local language (which is fair enough), offered lessons in it (free or at least subsidised), & choose local citizenship. The majority do so. A minority choose to claim Russian citizenship, & a smaller minority joins extremist groups which, for example, demand the formation of a self-governing region for Russians within Estonia which would hold the majority of the population, & more Estonians than Russians (I found that on the website of one such organisation, which had a map of its proposed region).

It gets a little more complicated then that. Like KiwiRob pointed out, even those who speak a local language are not treated the same as the titular ethnics. The extremists groups in question are not indicative of the majority. Nor do they justify broad discrimination against the population in question.

They are probably not representative of the entire Russian population in the Baltic states, unless you work in some strange industry that means you work with large numbers of people in every sector of the population, including those who do manual jobs like factory workers and toilet cleaners.

swerve was quite clear that he was talking about a minority of people. I don't think that anyone here is claiming that all Russians in that part of the world are flatly refusing to learn the local language.

KiwiRob is talking about the shipbuilding industry, which he works in.

As he pointed out, the Russian nationals form a technocratic elite, that works heavily in certain industrial sectors which would suffer if Russians left en masse. This is not unique to the Baltics. It's the same in, for example, Kazakhstan. In Southern Central Asia the Russian nationals did leave. The result has been a drastic decline of those countries. Tadjikistan is a prime example. Uzbekistan is another.

Back on topic, according to this site, large numbers of russian troops are crossing the border all over eastern Ukraine. There is lots of confusion as to what exactly is happening and wildly varying accounts of the number of russian troops involved.

Map of Ukraine Unrest

They're probably not Russian troops. And that map isn't accurate at all. Rebels are already west and south of Ilovaysk, though some fighting may still be going on in the city. There was fighting in Amvrosievka, which is far south and west of the "rebel held area" on this map.

I also have questions about the Novoazovsk area. The map shows a giant push there, far from any rebel force. And Oleg Layshko stated that the area fell to the rebels. But no pro-rebel source has stated anything of the sort, nor do we have photo or video footage backing this. I'm a little skeptical.

What is the composition of the UA? I read that until 2013 it used conscripts but then became fully professional. But have they called to service reservists after this crisis began? How is the morale and the will to fight?

I'm trying to figure out the reasons that the army's performance seems substandard and also what will happen in some time when/if they stop getting paid.

They never became fully professional. The fall 2013 draft was supposed to be the last one, but in the spring, when this whole mess started, the Turchinov government announced that they would maintain the draft, and continue it. They then declared a mobilization and called up tens of thousands of additional reservists.

Morale is low. Many are unwilling to fight. And they're already routinely being underpaid even the pittance that they're allotted officially.

The situation is a little different in the volunteer btlns, which consists of nationalists and in some cases even extremists (Right Sector/Svoboda). They're quite a bit more motivated, but they lack training, heavy equipment, and they often refuse to coordinate with military leadership, instead acting on their own.

Yep, agreed southern sector, but the liveUAmap indicates point incursions along the border, north of Luhansk.. Not saying the northern incursions aren't happening, just no reporting coming out confirming this over last 24-72hrs, lest of all the Kiev Govt.

Are LNR and DNR rebel forces working in relative concerted moves? To me, it seems this recent 'second wind', is predominately the DNR rebel units..

The LNR is supposedly preparing an offensive to un-block Lugansk. We will see if anything comes of it.

 

[Twain]

Yep, agreed southern sector, but the liveUAmap indicates point incursions along the border, north of Luhansk.. Not saying the northern incursions aren't happening, just no reporting coming out confirming this over last 24-72hrs, lest of all the Kiev Govt.

Are LNR and DNR rebel forces working in relative concerted moves? To me, it seems this recent 'second wind', is predominately the DNR rebel units..

Be careful about some of those arrows showing incursions, some of them just represent artillery shelling.

 

[Feanor]

Update.

About Mariupol', pro-rebel sources claim that they have a government force surrounded near Amvrosievka, and rebel raids are being conducted towards Mariupol'. Novoazovsk is in government hands.

Civilians are fleeing Mariupol'.

зри в корень - Батальон «Прикарпатье» потерÑл вÑÑŽ технику убежал аж до ЗапорожьÑ
КрыÑа из нержавеющей Ñтали - ÐовоазовÑк по контролем ВСУ
Блог ÐлекÑандра Шакуна - 25.08 Мариуполь
Блог ÐлекÑандра Шакуна - Короткий бой на окраине МариуполÑ
УкраинÑкие войÑка потерÑли контроль над учаÑтком границы Ñ Ð Ð¤ в ÐовоазовÑком районе

Forward Observers for arty, for volunteer btln Donbass.

КрыÑа из нержавеющей Ñтали - ÐртиллерийÑÐºÐ°Ñ Ñ€Ð°Ð·Ð²ÐµÐ´ÐºÐ° батальона ДонбаÑÑ

Destroyed Ukrainian government OSA SAMs.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=224204&d=1408922830
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=224205&d=1408922875

Battle damage, Donbass.

hrapypris31 -

Base and vehicles of the Donbass volunteer btln, up in flames.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd...._=1408964745_818e44c05d9b0a23cb2672d4a66b7a6a
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd...._=1408954554_c5a024b3493d128fecc9143b713f96ee

Serbian fighters in the rebels ranks.

зри в корень - Сообщение от БратиÑлава Живковича командира отрÑда ÑербÑких четников.

Ossetians in Donetsk.

КрыÑа из нержавеющей Ñтали - ОÑетины, на Ñтороне ДÐР
КрыÑа из нержавеющей Ñтали - ОÑетинÑкие добровольцы в ополчении ДÐР

T-64B1Ms planned for purchase, for army and National Guard.

Украина может закупить крупную партию модернизированных танков Т-64 Б1М

A Russian vehicle column near Ukraine.

https://imageshack.com/i/iq6oyk1tj
https://imageshack.com/i/eyY9KVIjj
https://imageshack.com/i/iqID0P18j
https://imageshack.com/i/ezfDk7Kuj
https://imageshack.com/i/kqsfdxGjj

Wounded rebels being treated in Crimean hospitals.

zloy_odessit -

There is info about two dead Russian VDV soldiers. Many think they may have died inside Ukraine. Details and proof are absent, but the funerals did take place.

Meanwhile Ukrainian sources claim they have Russian soldiers prisoner, from the 98th VDV Division. However no photos, or evidence has been provided. The VKontakte page of a Russian demobbed soldier who was supposedly taken prisoner shows he's alive, and well, and in Russia.

Íîâîñòè NEWSru.com :: Ïîä Ïñêîâîì ïîõîðîíèëè ðîññèéñêèõ äåñàíòíèêîâ. Æóðíàëèñòû óâåðÿþò, ÷òî âîåííûå ïîãèáëè â áîåâûõ äåéñòâèÿõ íà Óêðàèíå
КрыÑа из нержавеющей Ñтали - ВСУ захватили в плен группу 331-го парашютно-деÑантного полка 98-й гвардейÑкой дивизии ВС РФ
20-
Artem Kuzmin
КрыÑа из нержавеющей Ñтали - по новоÑÑ‚Ñм прошло что готовитÑÑ Ðº Ñфиру видео допроÑа военноÑлужащих РФ
zloy_odessit -

Ukrainian prisoners paraded through Donetsk.

Блог ÐлекÑандра Шакуна - Донецк 24.08
Вахтенный Љего пирата - ÐŸÐ¾Ð»Ð¸Ð²Ð°Ð»ÑŒÐ½Ð°Ñ Ð¼Ð°ÑˆÐ¸Ð½Ð° и оÑобы, примкнувшие к оной...

The Rada was just dissolved, pending new elections.

КрыÑа из нержавеющей Ñтали - Порошенко подпиÑал Указ о роÑпуÑке Верховной Рады

The SBU says they have stopped all deliveries of military and dual-purpose equipment to Russia. However Russian sources indicate that this may not be entirely the case.

bmpd -

Independence Day parade in Kiev.

КрыÑа из нержавеющей Ñтали - Киев, Крещатик, парад в чеÑÑ‚ÑŒ Ð”Ð½Ñ ÐезавиÑимоÑти Украины

Russia is preparing another humanitarian convoy, while cargo of the current one is being distributed in Lugansk.

КрыÑа из нержавеющей Ñтали - КамÐЗы загрузÑÑ‚ продукты в Воронеже, Ðзове, МоÑкве, РоÑтове-на-Дону и опÑÑ‚ÑŒ поедут на ДонбаÑÑ
Íîâîñòè NEWSru.com :: Ëàâðîâ: Ðîññèÿ ãîòîâèòñÿ îòïðàâèòü íà Óêðàèíó åùå îäèí ãóìàíèòàðíûé êîíâîé
Íîâîñòè NEWSru.com ::  Ëóãàíñêå íà÷àëè ðàçäàâàòü ðîññèéñêóþ ãóìàíèòàðíóþ ïîìîùü: "êèëîãðàìì ãðå÷êè, êîòîðóþ íåãäå ïðèãîòîâèòü"