Ukranian Crisis
- Thread starter KiwiRob
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It is the UA who is desperate, they are losing, slowly but surely, and DNR & LNR forces shown many times that they treat people alot better than UA side.
I`m from Latvia, and can tell you first hand what is actually happening, no body cares about 3 little countries, some politicians scream about russian invasion ever since the independence (23 years), it is very easy way to get into government and get some funding from EU\US\NATO that can be stolen, this scheme worked all these years, but now with what happening in UA, the money is just coming non stop, and also this situation is used to kick out any kind of russian minority representatives from parliament (in Latvia 100%, but I`m sure the same thing is happening in LT and EE).
Mykola Zelenec was an Honorary Consul. Not a full-time diplomat, but someone with another job (usually either a local citizen, or a foreigner with residency) who's given responsibility for consular affairs locally, & is granted limited immunity to allow him to carry out those responsibilities.
He lived in Luhansk. It was his home. He was recognised by the Ukrainian government as having limited diplomatic status, & that status is respected by other governments - e.g. Russia.
But the heroic freedom fighters of Novorossia think differently.
Relboon: don't you think this is a beautiful example of how well the rebels treat people? Why don't you sod off to Russia, since it's obviously the only place where you'd feel at home? Or are you waiting for the same thing to happen in Latvia?
He lived in Luhansk. It was his home. He was recognised by the Ukrainian government as having limited diplomatic status, & that status is respected by other governments - e.g. Russia.
But the heroic freedom fighters of Novorossia think differently.
Relboon: don't you think this is a beautiful example of how well the rebels treat people? Why don't you sod off to Russia, since it's obviously the only place where you'd feel at home? Or are you waiting for the same thing to happen in Latvia?
Those who were born & grew up there may have legitimate issues, but remember that most of those Russians (almost all of them in Estonia) are there as a result of state-sponsored immigration under the USSR. In Latvia, a lot of 'em own property that was stolen from Latvians by the Soviet state - & they've not had to give it back. Estonians wonder what Russians living in towns from which Estonians were forcibly excluded by the USSR are complaining about.
So who's been treated as second-class? The double standards applied are gob-smacking.
Edward Lucas: Estonia and Amnesty
Learn Estonian or Latvian, & don't support Russia against the country you live in, & you're not a second-class citizen.
Does anyone have a single shred of evidence ? Does anyone even know exactly what happened ? Where the body was found ? By whom ? One guy tweeted something and that is it ? It is suddenly enough to find the guilty party in a place where a WAR is going on ?
Where I live and why I live there is none of your business.
Unfortunately same thing will never happen in Latvia, the people are weak and cowardly (that includes the russian speaking part), while life in Ukraine was hard (very poor country, I was there several times), in Latvia life was kinda ok at times and people got soft. Do I want the same thing to happen ? Yes I do. Just FYI, in Latvia there is a official day of SS legionnaires March 16th, on that day in the CAPITAL OF EUROPE COUNTRY all surviving members of SS legions come to the central place in Riga to meet, many government officials also go there, support it and even encourage, on the other hand the Remembrance day May 9th the Red Army veterans cannot by law wear any medals.
Such a BS, my eyes hurts just from reading this. Do you live in ether of baltic states ? And how old are you ? If answer no, then just stop with your BS, you know nothing.
I note that you have said you want the country in which you live to suffer the sad fate of Ukraine, i.e. a civil war with Russian intervention.
Given that, I don't think I have to take anything you say seriously.
PS. I'm old enough to remember the Cold War, & to have spent time in East Germany & the USSR, pre-perestroika.
Given that, I don't think I have to take anything you say seriously.
PS. I'm old enough to remember the Cold War, & to have spent time in East Germany & the USSR, pre-perestroika.
Actually in Latvia pro russian minority party SC (Unity Center) is the biggest faction in parliament, they are just not in the government coalition. Condition for them to join the government forming process after the election was to cancel signed partnership with Putins United Russia party in Russia, but they refused to do that. There is also suspicion that SC is getting most of its funding from Russia. So naturally this party is seen as a Russia's foreign policy toll in Latvia rather than simple pro minority party.
Nick underscore
Member
Back to your old self from a few weeks back. Previously it was your simplistic view on economics and how 'lack of Russian tourism across Europe would have grave consequences'. Childish responses consistently posted and nothing of value to the conversation. Other forum members and some moderators who have a relatively similar bias to yourself, don't seem to have your issues in hostility.
Back to topic.
UA NSDC twitter is mentioning active RF movements across much of the border (south near Maxsimov and north near Bilovods'k for last 16 hours - How reliable is questionable.
Poroshenko announces defence spending injections of +$3b Ukraine plans $3 billion boost to defense spending - Businessweek
More than likely foreign aid package costs.
We can discuss it, but it will be off topic.
But since there is another election in LV coming up, I already see how Ukraine is used and how much dirt is being pored on people how dont openly attack russian minority. Please remember that SC is just balanced, they are not pro russians, they are just not openly against them.
Check again, I never said anything about any tourists.
I do try to control my self, but sometimes it is very difficult, especially when someone starts to say that what I lived and seen in 22 years in Riga is actually not true, he from some other country knows better.
Nick underscore
Member
Apologies - was a different poster on tourism, but it would be wise to lower the hostility in response.
Just to clarify the situation. Latvia was occupied by both powers- USSR and Germany in different time periods during WW2. So naturally people got to serve in both army's. Thous who served in the Red Army celebrate 09.05., Thous who served under the germans commemorate it in 16.03. And yes, simbols of Nazi Germany and Comunist party are forbidden by law in Latvia.
And the 16th of March commemoration is not official. It was, briefly, but only for two years, & not since 2000. It has since been disowned by not only the government (which has tried to limit it), but by veterans organisations. Attempts to ban it have been made, but courts have ruled the bans to be illegal.
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
What, from yout perspective, seems "balanced" from the perspective of others can be seen as biased.
Some members of DT have contacts with people in a number of other countries, apart from their (the DT member's) home country. Also a number of people are current or former military, defence industry, and/or government employees, which means that what some people hear about is not going to be the same as people who's only source of information is their respective nation's national news media.
Also, just because you are from a particular nation or have spent a great deal of time in a specific nation, does not automatically provide any real, accurate understanding of a nation's situation or status. By way of example consider the average American male's knowledge of and opinions about what is going on within the US. The sad reality is that many are likely to have a better grasp of the news and current events in sports than in politics, economics, or the legal arena.
Your POV has been fairly clearly displayed in a number of different posts, and the rest of us will react to said posts according to our own perspectives.
Let me guess Russia good, Russia strong, everyone else bad and weak?
That is the heart of every argument you have made over the last couple of weeks in a nutshell, if there is any BS here it is entering the site through your keyboard. You have made no effort to analyse or discuss the very complex issues involved in the current situation rather choosing to sprout blinkered one sided propaganda, and dismissing anyone who disagrees with you in a condescending manner.
Shape up or ship-out as the rest of us have no need to have to filter through your pointless, opinionated and obviously, painfully biased comments while attempting to read valuable information and analysis posted by many others on both sides of thee debate.
RT has reported on the possible encicrclement of 5000 Ukr troops, according the DPR announcment:
http://rt.com/news/182404-donetsk-forces-trap-hardware/
"“DNR’s army has surrounded the staff headquarters of the 8th army corps, 28th and 30th mechanized brigades, 95th air mobile brigade of the army of Ukraine, and also punitive battalions ‘Aidar’, ‘Donbass’ and ‘Shakhtersk’,”
Im not sure whether this is correct, but I would really like to hear Feanors opinion on this one. I checked the sources which are regulary quoted here, but non of them has reported on this.
http://rt.com/news/182404-donetsk-forces-trap-hardware/
"“DNR’s army has surrounded the staff headquarters of the 8th army corps, 28th and 30th mechanized brigades, 95th air mobile brigade of the army of Ukraine, and also punitive battalions ‘Aidar’, ‘Donbass’ and ‘Shakhtersk’,”
Im not sure whether this is correct, but I would really like to hear Feanors opinion on this one. I checked the sources which are regulary quoted here, but non of them has reported on this.
Nick underscore
Member
Not sure that is correct using previous maps (http://warfarestudies.tumblr.com - thanks twain again).
Assuming they are correct based on unit desigs, 30th Mech Bgde only 10-12 days ago was pushing east-south, west-north of Luhansk City (Sabivka). 95th Airmobile Bgde was circa Debal'tseve, so possible if over extended. 28th Mech Bgde is a mystery to this point, I asked a question on a few weeks back.. Seemed uncommitted at that time.
And Donbas Btln was near Popasna (East of Luhansk City) ... If the LNR forces made this statement I would think its possible. Personally, I think this is a piece vs. Ukrainian Independence Day celebrations.
EDIT: Speaking of Ukrainian Independence Day.. I was a little shocked by this move, today from the DNR rebels in an opposing celebration (if you can call this a celebration) http://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-pows-march-through-donetsk-streets-separatists-2014-8. Parading POW's is not a smart move IMV.. There are other stories coming out w.r.t UA and rebel POW's, but all unconfirmed.
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Russians have been living in the Baltic states since the Great Northern war with Sweden in the 1700's. They didn't all turn up after WW2 like most people think. The ones that were moved into the Baltic's you can't blame for what happened 70 years ago, most are 2nd, or 3rd generation on, why should they be removed, where would they go and what kind of compensation would they get.
Most of them do, it just the older ons who don't. In Riga and Tallinn the cities populations are close to 50% Russian, marginalising them is not a wise move.
I believe the problems people think Russians in the Baltic states pose is significantly less than Muslim immigration to Europe, that is the much greater threat to European security and way of life. But that's another issue not related to this topic.
This is shaping up into being a major defeat for the Ukrainians. This past week, I've noticed the Rebels fighting in larger groups. Seems they were laying in wait till the Ukrainian lines vastly overextended themselves. I believe the overall manpower for Pro-Russian forces increased; probably through Russian/Cossack reinforcing and the collapse of the Ukrainian 72nd brigade/ General forces along the border.
Here is some fairly large movements and a mop up operation in Ilovaysk.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4HveWGGjhs
If the Rebels can hold like this till winter, then it's a win-win situation. If they can break effectively break their moral, then all those troops can essentially surrender or defect. As in your link, they are parading them through the streets.
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