Russian Navy Discussions and Updates

[alexkvaskov]

I think the first Project 21956 destroyer will start construction this year. The plan is for 16-20 of them.

That was supposed to have been an export project that didn't go anywhere. And 16 would be simply impossible for the Russian naval industry to build in anything approaching a reasonable time frame, not to mention a lack of funds from the MoD. A more realistic scenario would be a gradual buildup of the modern Admiral Gorshkov frigate, with 6 to 12 units over the next 10 years to replace the Sovremenny and Kirov.

 

[Feanor]

Well there are a few things to consider. For starters, showing the flag is one of the biggest missions the VMF currently fullfills. At the end of the day, the ability to deploy a nuclear battlecruiser as the flagship of a VMF taskforce delivering "special cargo" to Syria looks very impressive. Remember the only combat engagement for the Russian/Soviet Navy post WWII was with a Georgian patrol boat. Second of all a modernized Kirov won't be irrelevant. It can carry the S-400 and does carry the S-300, really the only modern Naval SAM Russia has (until they unf*ck the situation with the Poliment-Redut, and even then that's a less capable system). It can also carry a very large arsenal of cruise missiles. So assuming they upgrade it properly, and don't just restore it to service, it can be relevant.

Finally consider this. Russia can't finish a modern frigate in a timely manner. Compared to this designing and fielding a modern cruiser is fantasy. I don't think Russia will be able to develop or field a new capital surface ship in the next two decades. Which means that if the VMF wants to have capital ships, they will have to go with upgrading their Soviet inheritance. Whether they even need one is a completely separate manner.

On a slightly related subject, those of you who know a little bit about uses of AShMs and cruise missiles, what do you think of the new Liana system? It's satellite based, consisting of 4 satellites (2 Lotos and 2 Pion). The satellites keep track of enemy ships in the ocean in real time, providing the tracking data to submarines and warships. The system is a modern version of the Cold War era Legend system (yes the one that put nuclear reactors in outer space).

http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/46376/
http://www.agentura.ru/equipment/kosmos/satellite/oursystem/legenda/
http://topwar.ru/12554-morskaya-kosmicheskaya-razvedka-celey.html

 

[Feanor]

That was supposed to have been an export project that didn't go anywhere. And 16 would be simply impossible for the Russian naval industry to build in anything approaching a reasonable time frame, not to mention a lack of funds from the MoD. A more realistic scenario would be a gradual buildup of the modern Admiral Gorshkov frigate, with 6 to 12 units over the next 10 years to replace the Sovremenny and Kirov.

Well the 20380 was an export project too. Now it's the main corvette for the VMF. So I guess it wouldn't be impossible to accept the 21956 into VMF service. But the idea of a cruiser-sized nuclear-powered destroyer seems to have taken hold. Lets wait and see what happens.

 

[KiwiRob]

That was supposed to have been an export project that didn't go anywhere. And 16 would be simply impossible for the Russian naval industry to build in anything approaching a reasonable time frame.

I disagree, Yantar are knocking out Project 11356M frigates at a pretty swift rate, 5 are under construction at the moment. The sixth will be laid down soon (equipment has been ordered for it already), I've been told there is a possibility of a further 4 vessels. The first hull was laid down in 2010, the first 6 are expected to be in commission by 2016.

 

[alexkvaskov]

I disagree, Yantar are knocking out Project 11356M frigates at a pretty swift rate, 5 are under construction at the moment. The sixth will be laid down soon (equipment has been ordered for it already), I've been told there is a possibility of a further 4 vessels. The first hull was laid down in 2010, the first 6 are expected to be in commission by 2016.

Don't forget that that is not a particularly advanced vessel, with many exported to India which greatly aided the yard in perfecting the manufacturing process. A completely new project would be reminiscent of the Admiral Gorshkov frigate epoch.

 

[Feanor]

Some detailed info on Vzglyad, about the 11442M upgrade.

Apparently both Admiral Nakhimov, and afterwards Peter the Great, will have their revolver S-300Fs replaced with universal launch tubes for a bigger version of Poliment-Redut, which is somewhat worrisome, given the major problems with the smaller version on a frigate. It also appears that it will be a less effective system then the S-400, nevermind S-500. The Granit will be replaced with the Club (Kalibr/Oniks) combination which means that it can potentially carry 80 cruise missiles, making it the biggest such vessel in the VMF. There's some speculation about a navalized Pantsyr, but a Palma SHORAD is more likely, given that it's tested, in serial production, and cheaper.

 

 

[Wall83]

According to the CEO of Sevmash the company plans to lay down a total of eight nuclear submarines in the next two years.
Including 4 Borei subs and 1 special-purpose submarine.
I supose the other 2 will be Yasens.

Russia to Begin Building 9 Submarines by Next Year | Defense | RIA Novosti

 

[Wall83]

Russia plans to add all ukrainan navy vessels to its Black sea Fleet.
Inspections of all ships and vessels should be done by the end of 2014.

This will add some units to the fleet, among many 3 Corvettes, 1 submarine, 1 Escort ship, 2 landing ships and several missile och mine boats.

Inspection of Ukrainian Ships Entering Russia

I supose this will mean that the old uncomplete slava cruiser Ukrainya will belong to Russia as well.

 

[Feanor]

Russia plans to add all ukrainan navy vessels to its Black sea Fleet.
Inspections of all ships and vessels should be done by the end of 2014.

This will add some units to the fleet, among many 3 Corvettes, 1 submarine, 1 Escort ship, 2 landing ships and several missile och mine boats.

Inspection of Ukrainian Ships Entering Russia

I supose this will mean that the old uncomplete slava cruiser Ukrainya will belong to Russia as well.

No. The 1164 Ukraine is in Nikolaev. It's still under Ukrainian control. There's also some serious questions about the technical condition of the ships. I think the BDK, and the corvettes, will probably be the most useful additions.

Work has resumed on the project 677 subs, that was halted earlier due to technological problems.

http://eagle-rost.livejournal.com/144668.html

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

Article about the modernization of Black Sea fleet flagship Project 1164 cruiser "Moskva". Its in Russian, so i dont understand anything of it.
But is see something about P-500 Bazalt and after that P-1000 Vulkan, so maybe the P-1000 will replace the P-500.
Lenta.ru:

And some update about the first two Project 945 subs.
Russia to Refit 2 Sierra-Class Nuclear Subs | Defense | RIA Novosti

 

[alexkvaskov]

Article about the modernization of Black Sea fleet flagship Project 1164 cruiser "Moskva". Its in Russian, so i dont understand anything of it.
But is see something about P-500 Bazalt and after that P-1000 Vulkan, so maybe the P-1000 will replace the P-500.
Lenta.ru:

It says the Moskva will be sent to Zvezdochka in Severodvinsk to be modernized in late 2015. The upgrade will reportedly include new "equipment" as the article says. That probably means new sensors. Also, it claims the P-500 has been replaced with the P-1000 some time ago but it also mentions the cruiser will be getting new "weaponry" so seems somewhat convoluted.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

^^^
Thank you for your explanation!

 

[KiwiRob]

Just as an update on the 30th Baltiysky Shipyard launched the aft section of Mistral-class LSD Sevastopol.

I still think 2 of these vessels are about 4 too few.

 

[swerve]

LHD, not LSD.

 

[KiwiRob]

TBH I didn't notice that mistake, I just cut and past from a report I get on Russian shipbuilding.

 

[Feanor]

There's info coming out that France may sell the second Mistral to another customer. It would certainly create a problem for Russia. Even 2 Mistrals isn't a lot, realistically the VMF needs the 4. 1 would make it a unique ship, that would likely spend most of it's life not doing much.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

There's info coming out that France may sell the second Mistral to another customer. It would certainly create a problem for Russia. Even 2 Mistrals isn't a lot, realistically the VMF needs the 4. 1 would make it a unique ship, that would likely spend most of it's life not doing much.

So why does the Ivan Gren Project 11711 class not getting a higher priority? As far as i know just one vessel under construction.

 

[Feanor]

So why does the Ivan Gren Project 11711 class not getting a higher priority? As far as i know just one vessel under construction.

Because nobody is sure what it's supposed to be or how one is to use it. There's no clear doctrine on amphibious assault or naval force projection.

 

[colay]

There's info coming out that France may sell the second Mistral to another customer. It would certainly create a problem for Russia. Even 2 Mistrals isn't a lot, realistically the VMF needs the 4. 1 would make it a unique ship, that would likely spend most of it's life not doing much.

Some were suggesting the USN as a prospect but not likely. If you believe Wiki, a number of countries may be interested..

According to French daily La Tribune, the Royal Canadian Navy shows "strong interest" in buying two Mistral ships. [44] The Royal Malaysian Navy, the Swedish Navy and the South African Navy might show an interest in the ships. [citation needed] As of late 2011 the Polish Navy has been working closely with the Polish Ministry of Defense to purchase one Mistral ship. The Indian Navy has also expressed interest in the design of the Mistral type as a Multi-Role Support Vessel. [45] Brazil and Turkey could in time consider purchasing BPCs. [46] Algeria is also considering the purchase of two BPCs. [47][48]

 

[KiwiRob]

But somehow I doubt the 2 Russian ships will end up anywhere except in Russian service. The French have been pretty quiet about this, they would like the Russians to order 2 more, I think that's more important to them than an issue which is already done and dusted.