The D-Day commemorations saw informal conversations between Obama and Putin as well as the new Ukrainian President and Putin, nothing like back door diplomacy to get things sorted.
Russian Navy Discussions and Updates
- Thread starter Spacearrow99
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John Fedup
The Bunker Group
Given the sad state of the RCN and our current naval ship building program, Canada should purchase the Mistrals and help both France and our RCN. Unfortunately our F-35 order that should be announced this coming Tuesday will make the acquisition of two foreign ships a political $hit storm.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
I think you are right. The deal is a major economic plus for France. Should the situation in the Ukraine plunge into total chaos with massive loss of life there is little the West or Russia can do as involvement in a civil war is a bottomless pit. As Russia started this mess, public opinion may force the cancellation should this civil unrest turn really ugly.
Nick underscore
Member
Actually, behind the scenes the French Gov have been quite vocal. With current EU sanctions against Russia at phase II, the French are very worried about the second ship and issues tied with phase III (agreed EU defence export & other measures) - assuming these get introduced.
Really, do you really believe Russia started this, I actually put the blame squarely in the hands of the EU and US for supporting the Euro Manden who then over through the elected president, if they had waited and voted him out then this whole mess would not have started. That said Crimea has been heading towards breaking away since 1991, they never wanted to be Ukrainian and I believe at some point in time they would have broken away from Ukraine, who could blame them Ukraine is a mess.
I had a short meeting with Baltisky SY yesterday, they are preparing the section they launched a couple of weeks ago for towing to France. Nothing has changed as far as they are concerned.
Nick underscore
Member
Agreed and as it should be. All parties agree that it's still BAU.
Phase III (if/when) will surface several key issues with regards to the June 2011 defence agreement in place. Certain contractual obligations under aspects of EU defence export powers, are limited legally.
Hollande confirmed that France will continue with th deliveries of the Mistrals to Russia.
http://www.maritime-executive.com/a...-Future-Warship-Delivery-to-Russia-2014-07-23
Nick underscore
Member
Actually the first ship (Vladivostok) has been promised w.r.t those conversations. many other sources quoting the same comments as below from RT
http://rt.com/news/174808-france-uk-criticism-mistral/
However, it is not yet clear whether France will go through with the delivery of the second ship, which is planned for the end of next year.
"Does that mean that the rest of the contract - the second Mistral - can be carried through? That depends on Russia's attitude," Hollande said on Monday evening.
Personally, I still think both will be delivered, albeit the second with some delays relating to EU bickering.
Nick underscore
Member
Duplicate - apologies
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
The first Mistral is to be delivered in Oct so a lot can happen between now and then. Canada's PM Harper has been very critical of Russia's actions in Ukraine. He should back up his rhetoric with some cash and tell France he is prepared to purchase at least one of these ships. With HMCS Protecteur lost due to fire damage and its sister ship nearing the scrap yard and with only one Tribal class destroyer fit for duty (for a few years only), Canada badly needs a larger vessel to fill in as a command ship. A Mistral is a ready made solution.
Nick underscore
Member
Ha! Agreed John.
If (and I'm only talking about the second Mistral) France decides to not go through with delivery, I could see the second going to Canada. She seems ideal for your needs. If not Canada, would NATO 'pool' it as an asset, much like some of its AAR capability?
Even if she was an orphan, the supply chain shouldn't be an issue...
EDIT; Turkey to me, also seems a fit, if France backs out of the second Mistral.
John Fedup
The Bunker Group
A NATO pool idea is an interesting solution that would spread the costs around but I would like to see the RCN get at least one.
Half of the second Mistral is currently floating outside Baltisky Shipyard, I very much doubt the Russians would deliver the part to France for them to hand it over to another customer.
Nick underscore
Member
That would prove an interesting scenario
Agreed, but remember the French have already built Mistral, Tonnerre and Dixmude and I'm sure France (DCNS) could make up the remaining blocks in her own yards. Huge delays, but not impossible to overcome.
Anyway, all this is moot
Nick underscore
Member
A Boriei ballistic missile and a Yasen nuclear attack class submarines came into active service just ahead of Russian Naval day (27/7).
They are the Severodvinsk (Yasen) - which was started in 1993 - and Alexander Nevsky (Borei).
Borei-Class Submarines Enter Service Ahead of Russian Navy Day | Military & Intelligence | RIA Novosti
They are the Severodvinsk (Yasen) - which was started in 1993 - and Alexander Nevsky (Borei).
Borei-Class Submarines Enter Service Ahead of Russian Navy Day | Military & Intelligence | RIA Novosti
This case presents France with a choice of either being a reliable world class arms supplier or a NATO team player. They are currently trying to play it both ways, but it may soon become impossible to do so. If it becomes necessary for France to refuse to supply the Mistrals to Russia, I wonder how much compensation they will have to pay to Russia, according to their contract, and whether the contract terms would be honored.
Its not a zero sum game. France can be and is both a reliable supplier and an important NATO contributor but she has every right to consider a range of sanctions to voice her disapproval of Russian/Putin action in the Crimea and E Ukraine.
The Ukraine/Crimean crisis has shown that Mr Putin is not averse to using military muscle to protect and expand Russian interests in a smaller sovereign neighbor and that action has brought condemnation from the wider EU community.
France is a reliable supplier to whom? You did not specify that. I am not against your position, but I am mainly interested in ideas about the size of the compensation due to France cancelling the contract, and whether the contract terms would be honored in case France chooses not to supply the Mistrals to Russia.
You assume that France will cancel the second Mistral, I doubt it will although there may be pressure bought to do that from some sources.
Its easy for politicians (Hollande) to make comment but a contract exists, penalties exist and France will do whatever she thinks appropriate to serve both her national interests and those of her EU partners.
There are other more targeted sanction options. The quantum of compensation seems trite under the circumstances.