Russian Navy Discussions and Updates

[alexkvaskov]

I'm thoroughly confused with all the different patrol and missile boats they've got. I've seen news reports for four or five different classes of small patrol boats being laid down for the navy and border guards, as well as at least three different classes of Soviet era missile boats currently in service, each with their own subclasses. Hopefully they are able to replace the old PMT fleet with new stuff like the Mangust, Buyan and Grachonok.

I get the feeling that they are ordering whatever it is the various design bureaus have on offer, even if it means ordering overlapping classes of vessels. Although they are trying to get different wharves to produce a unified design, for instance Sevenaya working on 20385s for the Northern Fleet, and yards in the Far East slated to lay down 20381s for the Pacific Fleet.

 

[Feanor]

I'm thoroughly confused with all the different patrol and missile boats they've got. I've seen news reports for four or five different classes of small patrol boats being laid down for the navy and border guards, as well as at least three different classes of Soviet era missile boats currently in service, each with their own subclasses. Hopefully they are able to replace the old PMT fleet with new stuff like the Mangust, Buyan and Grachonok.

I get the feeling that they are ordering whatever it is the various design bureaus have on offer, even if it means ordering overlapping classes of vessels. Although they are trying to get different wharves to produce a unified design, for instance Sevenaya working on 20385s for the Northern Fleet, and yards in the Far East slated to lay down 20381s for the Pacific Fleet.

These aren't replacement for Soviet-era missile boats (ракетные катера). They probably won't be getting replaced at all. The slightly larger missile boats are classed as MRKs. Their replacement, if there is one, will likely be Project 20631 ships, which are also classed as small missile ships, even though size and equipment wise they're more like smallish corvettes. Most likely the replacement won't be 1 for 1, and the larger quantities of Soviet-era brown water boats will be replaced with semi-blue water new ships.

 

[Wall83]

The Admiral Gorshkov should soone be ready for sea trials.

http://www.balancer.ru/forum/punbb/attachment.php?item=352786&download=2&type=.jpg

 

[KiwiRob]

I get the feeling that they are ordering whatever it is the various design bureaus have on offer, even if it means ordering overlapping classes of vessels. Although they are trying to get different wharves to produce a unified design, for instance Sevenaya working on 20385s for the Northern Fleet, and yards in the Far East slated to lay down 20381s for the Pacific Fleet.

I'd be very surprised if Komsomolsk Shipyard manages to delivery anything, entrusting a complicated vessel like a corvette to them is risky IMO.

Severnaya has built 1 20380, and 1 20381, and is working on 2 x 20381's, plus has orders for 2 x 20385's.

It's the same design bureau (Almaz) responsible for vessels built at Severnaya and Komsomolsk.

 

[Wall83]

The first Mistral class ship for the russian navy was launched on october 15.

http://www.meretmarine.com/sites/de...new_objets_drupal/20131015233725_DSC_0262.jpg
http://www.meretmarine.com/sites/de...new_objets_drupal/20131015233737_DSC_0273.jpg

You can see the seond one right behind and it looks like work is proceeing fast.

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

The Admiral Gorshkov should soone be ready for sea trials.

http://www.balancer.ru/forum/punbb/attachment.php?item=352786&download=2&type=.jpg

Thanks for sharing, great looking ship....

 

[KiwiRob]

The first Mistral class ship for the russian navy was launched on october 15.

http://www.meretmarine.com/sites/de...new_objets_drupal/20131015233725_DSC_0262.jpg
http://www.meretmarine.com/sites/de...new_objets_drupal/20131015233737_DSC_0273.jpg

You can see the seond one right behind and it looks like work is proceeing fast.

I wonder if the Russians will take up the 2 options, I don't think two will be enough. Russian crews are going to love them as well, the accommodations are like a cruise ship compared to what I have seen in Russian vessels.

 

[harryriedl]

I wonder if the Russians will take up the 2 options, I don't think two will be enough. Russian crews are going to love them as well, the accommodations are like a cruise ship compared to what I have seen in Russian vessels.

Russian ships seem to have a particularly bad reputation in regards to crew habitability is their anything in particularly which makes them so much worse (I heard that the Slavas are particularly bad)

 

[Feanor]

I wonder if the Russians will take up the 2 options, I don't think two will be enough. Russian crews are going to love them as well, the accommodations are like a cruise ship compared to what I have seen in Russian vessels.

There seems to be a lot of politics surrounding procurement of major foreign platforms, and right now they seem to be against the Mistrals. That having been said, I hope they do because Russia needs these ships.

EDIT: Some new info, a trainer module, 2 of them, for the Ka-52K helicopters has been contracted by the AVMF. One will go to the brand new AVMF training center in Yeysk, the same place that a new version of NITKA is being built, the other one will go to Primorye, probably for the Pacific Fleet, where the first Mistral will be based. Recruiting of contract sailors and warrant officers for the first Mistral has already begun. Interesting enough the requirement is for at least an associates degree for prospective contract sailors. Meanwhile a new tanker ship is about to be signed for the VMF.

http://alexeyvvo.livejournal.com/40731.html
http://alexeyvvo.livejournal.com/40588.html
http://pressa-tof.livejournal.com/157385.html

 

[gf0012-aust]

newsfeed from the BO:

"The Russian Air Force has re-opened the Temp airfield on the Kotelny Island in the High North. The airfield has not been used in 27 years, but will now be used for safeguarding shipping in the Arctic."

 

[KiwiRob]

Meanwhile a new tanker ship is about to be signed for the VMF.

It's Project 23130 you talking about? The tender was won by Nevsky Shipyard, a week or so ago.

 

[Feanor]

newsfeed from the BO:

"The Russian Air Force has re-opened the Temp airfield on the Kotelny Island in the High North. The airfield has not been used in 27 years, but will now be used for safeguarding shipping in the Arctic."

Yeah Kotelniy, and Tiksi have been re-opened and apparently re-built, though it's airforce rather then navy news. Tiksi has an S-400 regiment deployed near it, so it looks like they're serious about stepping up presence there. There are some nice photos of the VMF and Marines landing on Kotelniy. It took four nuclear icebreakers to get them there (in some parts).

Северный флот ВМФ Ð*оÑÑии - ОтрÑд кораблей Северного флота завершил заход на ÐовоÑибирÑкие оÑтрова

There were also some interesting exercises held in the arctic recently that involved live-fire on a single target from two nuclear subs and one heavy cruiser (the Petr Velikiy Kirov-class) of Granit AShMs. Iirc an Il-38 was providing target locations.

It's Project 23130 you talking about? The tender was won by Nevsky Shipyard, a week or so ago.

Yep, that's the one, and that's the yard.

There's also a contract for 32 Ka-52K helos. Yep, 32. No the 16-24 that two Mistrals require. Russian sources speculate that the excess helos will be on Project 1155 ASW destroyers. The contract is with Progress.

http://navy-korabel.livejournal.com/28475.html

EDIT: gf0012 here's some more photos from the recent re-opening of Temp. Some MT-LBs, and those two-piece tracked arctic vehicles. The airplane they landed was an An-72, and at least two helos, an Mi-8 and two Mi-26.

http://armsofwar.ru/voennye-fotografii/2648-fotografii-s-aerodroma-temp.html

 

[Blackshoe]

There's also a contract for 32 Ka-52K helos. Yep, 32. No the 16-24 that two Mistrals require. Russian sources speculate that the excess helos will be on Project 1155 ASW destroyers. The contract is with Progress.

Out of curiosity, what would ASW destroyers do with attack helicopters? I could imagine it being useful in some of the counter-piracy patrols, but not elsewhere.

 

[Feanor]

Out of curiosity, what would ASW destroyers do with attack helicopters? I could imagine it being useful in some of the counter-piracy patrols, but not elsewhere.

Supposedly, supposedly, the Ka-52K will have ASW capabilities. To be honest at this point it's not at all clear what the program actually entails. Information varies from a simple navalized Ka-52, to a multi-role dedicated naval helo on the Ka-52 basis. There was speculation that it might even be able to carry AShMs. The project 1155 is supposedly slated for modernization. The new helos could be part of that. It might even be that they will rotate what helos they carry based on the mission. But honestly it's mostly rumor and badly sourced news reports. No real info to go on.

Also the 1155s carry two helos regularly. So maybe 1 Ka-27, and 1 Ka-52K? I don't know.

EDIT: Some updates, here's an interesting analysis of the possibility of basing Ka-52 helos on the project 1155s.

http://sandrermakoff.livejournal.com/494471.html

Meanwhile the third serial, fourth overall, Project 22350 Frigate is about to be laid down, along with an ELINT ship. It look like the Gorhskov class will finally enter into large-scale production.

http://lenta.ru/news/2013/11/11/lay/

 

[KiwiRob]

Severnaya Verf are expecting to deliver about 20 ships to the Navy between now and 2020, three of those will be the supply vessels so the other 17 must be combat vessels. It's a pretty ambitious building program for them IMO. I hope they can do it.

 

[PETERjN]

There are photographs of the construction and launch of the new Russian helicopter carrier here:

hxxp://englishrussia.com/2013/11/11/new-helicopter-carriers-for-the-russian-navy/

Just fix the http at the front of the link.

There is also a series of photos of an SU-35 simulator plus other military bits and pieces.

 

[Feanor]

Severnaya Verf are expecting to deliver about 20 ships to the Navy between now and 2020, three of those will be the supply vessels so the other 17 must be combat vessels. It's a pretty ambitious building program for them IMO. I hope they can do it.

To be honest the VMF will be taking deliveries of quite a large number of ships. Two MRKs hit the Caspian nearly simultaneously (displacement wise they're small corvettes), 8 more are planned, 4 Caspian, 4 Black Sea. 6 11356 frigates are headed to the Black Sea in the next 3 years. Then there's six 636 subs, and two 677s. There's 4 22350s in construction right now, of which all are expected by the end of 2016. So a total of 10 frigates before 2017. There's 5 22380 corvettes planned by end of 2016. And of course the Ivan Gren will supposedly be handed over next year as a transport, rather then landing ship.

There's a pretty summary here: Ð”ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ ÐœÐ¾ÐºÑ€ÑƒÑˆÐ¸Ð½ - Ð¡Ð²Ð¾Ð´Ð½Ð°Ñ Ñ‚Ð°Ð±Ð»Ð¸Ñ†Ð° ÑтроительÑтва надводных боевых единиц Ð´Ð»Ñ Ð’ÐœÐ¤ Ð*Ф на 17.11.2013

Some of those plans are optimistic. Like I'm not at all confident that the Far Eastern 22380 will be completed, because the financing is highly problematic.

Meanwhile the first Il-38N seems to have reached FOC. It hit IOC in 2010, but flights were halted in 2011 because there were no fully trained crews. It has now resumed operations. Meanwhile work continues on the contract for upgrading 5 more aircraft. Two are being worked on right now, and are supposedly close to completion. No work has been done on the other 3 aircraft.

bmpd -

Also the oldest VMF ship the Communna rescue vessel, has just turned 100 years old. It dates back to the Russian empire, and originally served on the Baltic Fleet, now it's in the Black Sea. According to the captain the only thing that didn't work on the vessel was the piano that was installed in 1914 but it was recently repaired. The vessel has been modernized many times, and there are no plans to retire it.

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/666364.html

 

[Feanor]

Severnaya Verf are expecting to deliver about 20 ships to the Navy between now and 2020, three of those will be the supply vessels so the other 17 must be combat vessels. It's a pretty ambitious building program for them IMO. I hope they can do it.

I have a question for you, Zelenodol'sk will supposedly be building a new series of patrol ships for the VMF. Displacement wise they will be between 1500 and 4000 tons (two classes, larger and smaller). They will carry little armament, and will primarily be used for peacetime missions, or low-threat combat missions (anti-piracy, protection of Russian citizens being evacuated, etc.). Have you heard anything on this?

There is also a competing concept for Corvettes of Naval Security (корветы Охраны Водного Района/ОВР). This is for a full fledged corvette, not patrol ship, that will however fill a similar role, except it will also be a warship in wartime. This project does exist although no particulars are available.

 

[KiwiRob]

I only know about Projects 21631 (Corvette) & 11661 (FrigatE) at Zelenodolsk, I haven't heard anything else. The 4 11661 frigates currently under construction are for Vietnam.

 

[Wall83]

Today the first new Kilo-class sub for the Black sea Fleet was launched.

Russia Floats Out