Russian Navy Discussions and Updates

[alexkvaskov]

Is it known how many of the older submarines will be kept in service? I wonder whether one type, e.g. the Sierra-class, will be phased out completely first, before the Shchuka will be retired, or will they simply retired the oldest ones first?

Both classes are likely remain in service post 2020; they'll probably be phasing out the oldest subs first. The Akula's are generally newer and there are fewer Sierra's to begin with, so we'll be seeing older Akula's withdrawn, followed by most of the Sierra's by 2020.

 

[Feanor]

The Boykiy just began acceptance trials with the Baltic fleet, making it the third project 20380 corvette. It was delayed by the production problems with the A-190 artillery module.

Ðа Балтфлоте приÑтупил к гоÑиÑпытаниÑм Корвет-"невидимка" "Бойкий" —ОРУЖИЕ РОССИИ, Информационное агентÑтво

 

[Feanor]

Looks like the project 1155 Destroyers are getting a major upgrade and will remain in service for decades to come. 8 are currently in service, meaning the escorts for the Mistrals will initially be upgraded Project 1155s. They will get the A-192 arty module, Redut SAMs, and Kalibr missiles. Severnaya Verf and Baltiyskiy Zavod are being considered for the program, but honestly if they want to pull this off quickly and effectively, they'd have to use both. The BPK Admiral Harlanov (currently in reserve) will be first for upgrade, and delivery is estimated post 2016.

Lenta.ru:

Also, at the end of this year the project 677 Lada sub, hull number 2, will resume construction.

Lenta.ru:

Either they solved the earlier problems, or are forging ahead with a half-baked design.

Overall it seems that GPV-2020, on the naval side, is being toned down in favor of more realistic plans. The new destroyer project is probably delayed, which is why they're planning to refit the older ones to serve as universal destroyers (as opposed to dedicated ASW which they are now). I really wonder if the refit and modernization plans for the Kuznetsov are still on the table. It was a fairly essential part of their plans for building a blue water navy, and would give them essential experience both in building and operating aircraft carriers. Given the timeframe of the two destroyer programs, it seems that refurbished Projject 1155s will be escorts to the Mistrals, while the new destroyer type will only appear later (possibly as escorts for the upgraded Kuznetsov).

 

[Wall83]

Looks like the project 1155 Destroyers are getting a major upgrade and will remain in service for decades to come. 8 are currently in service, meaning the escorts for the Mistrals will initially be upgraded Project 1155s. They will get the A-192 arty module, Redut SAMs, and Kalibr missiles. Severnaya Verf and Baltiyskiy Zavod are being considered for the program, but honestly if they want to pull this off quickly and effectively, they'd have to use both. The BPK Admiral Harlanov (currently in reserve) will be first for upgrade, and delivery is estimated post 2016.

Lenta.ru:

Also, at the end of this year the project 677 Lada sub, hull number 2, will resume construction.

Lenta.ru:

Either they solved the earlier problems, or are forging ahead with a half-baked design.

Overall it seems that GPV-2020, on the naval side, is being toned down in favor of more realistic plans. The new destroyer project is probably delayed, which is why they're planning to refit the older ones to serve as universal destroyers (as opposed to dedicated ASW which they are now). I really wonder if the refit and modernization plans for the Kuznetsov are still on the table. It was a fairly essential part of their plans for building a blue water navy, and would give them essential experience both in building and operating aircraft carriers. Given the timeframe of the two destroyer programs, it seems that refurbished Projject 1155s will be escorts to the Mistrals, while the new destroyer type will only appear later (possibly as escorts for the upgraded Kuznetsov).

No news about the Sovremennys?

 

[Feanor]

No news about the Sovremennys?

Not so far, they're probably more focusing on keeping older ships functional and relevant. Two more project Buyan-M are due for handover to the Caspian flotilla this year, along with a small handful of support vessels. One of them, the Grad Sviyazhsk was just launched.

Спущен на воду малый ракетный корабль «Град СвиÑжÑк» - Сделано у наÑ
Lenta.ru:

Also the Yasen program has allegedly been reduced to 7 ships. However they've previously named a lot of different numbers, so it's not clear whether this one is final.

Lenta.ru:

 

[Feanor]

Another anti-piracy mission has just sailed from the Pacific Fleet. It's one BDK (ASW destroyer) 3 landing ships, and support vessels. The landing ships are carrying marines. This is a very large number of troops for anti-piracy, more then previously. If they're at max capacity, this means ~1000 Marines. For long voyages numbers are usually less then that, but it's still got to be well over 300 total, otherwise it wouldn't make sense to have so many ships. Most likely a battalion plus sized element.

This is a lot more then usual. While the deployment of the BDKs in themselves makes sense, there's a lot of them (unlike other warships) and their armament is more then enough to deal with any pirates, this many Marines is unusual. Thoughts anyone?

Oh, and the info is from the press service of the Pacific Fleet. On their blog they also published some pics of the departing ships. I think one of them is a Project 775M, with the AK-630 AA guns, and the 76mm gun in the front.

ТихоокеанÑкий флот ВМФ Ð*оÑÑии - КОÐ*ÐБЛИ ПОСТОЯТ, - И ЛОЖÐТЯ ÐРКУÐ*С...

 

[Belesari]

Obviously this is what they want you to believe......this can mean only one thing.

They plan on invading Djibouti.:devil

Another anti-piracy mission has just sailed from the Pacific Fleet. It's one BDK (ASW destroyer) 3 landing ships, and support vessels. The landing ships are carrying marines. This is a very large number of troops for anti-piracy, more then previously. If they're at max capacity, this means ~1000 Marines. For long voyages numbers are usually less then that, but it's still got to be well over 300 total, otherwise it wouldn't make sense to have so many ships. Most likely a battalion plus sized element.

This is a lot more then usual. While the deployment of the BDKs in themselves makes sense, there's a lot of them (unlike other warships) and their armament is more then enough to deal with any pirates, this many Marines is unusual. Thoughts anyone?

Oh, and the info is from the press service of the Pacific Fleet. On their blog they also published some pics of the departing ships. I think one of them is a Project 775M, with the AK-630 AA guns, and the 76mm gun in the front.

ТихоокеанÑкий флот ВМФ Ð*оÑÑии - КОÐ*ÐБЛИ ПОСТОЯТ, - ИОЖÐТСЯ ÐРКУÐ*С...

 

[Feanor]

Some news, the first of a pair of next generation ELINT/SIGINT vessels for the GRU has been delayed until 2014. The ship is a project 18280, and is called a "special communications ship". Reportedly one of its functions will be to analyze the US BMD system.

Lenta.ru:

Also factory trials for Borey number 3 (Vladimir Monomakh) are set to begin in June. It's the last of baseline project 955s. From here on all new Boreys will be project 955A. It'll be interesting to see how long it takes them to actually arm these boats with missiles, given earlier concerns over manufacturing capacity.

Lenta.ru:

EDIT: Putin just forbade Shoygu from using foreign shipyards to perform repairs and overhauls of Russian Navy ships. This is going to be bad. As is Russian shipyards are badly falling behind on repairs and overhauls, partially due to the bureaucracy slowing down the process, partially due to their own inadequate facilities.

Some Russian ships were never produced or overhauled in Russia, for example the project 775 landing ships. Repairing them in Russia will require creating the facilities for it. And of course this is not good news for Ukraine, whose shipyards will now no longer be able to count on Black Sea Fleet contracts.

http://vz.ru/news/2013/4/2/626926.html

 

[KiwiRob]

EDIT: Putin just forbade Shoygu from using foreign shipyards to perform repairs and overhauls of Russian Navy ships. This is going to be bad. As is Russian shipyards are badly falling behind on repairs and overhauls, partially due to the bureaucracy slowing down the process, partially due to their own inadequate facilities.

And from my experience partly due to people within the shipyards putting large chunks of the financing in their back pockets.

Some Russian ships were never produced or overhauled in Russia, for example the project 775 landing ships. Repairing them in Russia will require creating the facilities for it. And of course this is not good news for Ukraine, whose shipyards will now no longer be able to count on Black Sea Fleet contracts.

So where do you think these ships are being repaired at the moment because I very much doubt they are being repaired in Gdańsk Shipyard, that yard is on it's knees and has been on life support for a while.

The Ukrainian shipyards are in far worse state than the Russian years, as a non military example Krasnoye Sormove and Okskaya Shipyards both received orders for 16 and 15 Project RST27 River Sea Tankers, Kherson in Ukraine received an order for 3, they all started building at pretty much the same time, so far Sormove has launched 10 vessels, Okskaya 8 and Kherson 1.

The shipbuilding legacy the USSR left Ukraine is amazing, fantastic facilities, deep water harbours, and a well trained shipbuilding population and it's all been wasted. They don't have the management ability and are far to corrupt to make anything out of the what they have. I have always believed that if a serious effort was made Ukraine could be a major shipbuilding nation challenging Korea, China and Japan.

 

[Feanor]

A little update, serial modernization of the Il-38 fleet has begun. It's primarily installation of the Novella complex on the aircraft. The upgraded aircraft will receive the index Il-38N.

http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/31500/

Also work has begun on the first project 20385 corvette, carrying Kalibr/Onyx missiles. Severnaya Verf is the shipyard, and the current contract is for four ships of the class. Kiwi have you heard anything about timetables for these contracts?

http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/31476/

 

[wsb05]

Some news, the first of a pair of next generation ELINT/SIGINT vessels for the GRU has been delayed until 2014. The ship is a project 18280, and is called a "special communications ship". Reportedly one of its functions will be to analyze the US BMD system.

Lenta.ru:

Also factory trials for Borey number 3 (Vladimir Monomakh) are set to begin in June. It's the last of baseline project 955s. From here on all new Boreys will be project 955A. It'll be interesting to see how long it takes them to actually arm these boats with missiles, given earlier concerns over manufacturing capacity.

Lenta.ru:

EDIT: Putin just forbade Shoygu from using foreign shipyards to perform repairs and overhauls of Russian Navy ships. This is going to be bad. As is Russian shipyards are badly falling behind on repairs and overhauls, partially due to the bureaucracy slowing down the process, partially due to their own inadequate facilities.

Some Russian ships were never produced or overhauled in Russia, for example the project 775 landing ships. Repairing them in Russia will require creating the facilities for it. And of course this is not good news for Ukraine, whose shipyards will now no longer be able to count on Black Sea Fleet contracts.

 

Any news on the new shipyards supposedly being built in russia
1- daewoo usc joint venture in vladivostok
2- singapore funded shipyard for deep sea drilling rigs
3- st. petersburg shipyard upgrade for ex- mistral ships
4- rogozin idea for new black sea shipyards

 

[KiwiRob]

Admirality is relocating, although they have been relocating to Kotlan Island for long time looks like they might actually be doing it this time.

The USC Daewoo yard is still under construction, I have no idea why Daewoo got involved in this.

Vyborg does a pretty efficient job building rig hulls, although the last ones had the topsides built by Samgsung.

 

[wsb05]

The USC Daewoo yard is still under construction, I have no idea why Daewoo got involved in this.

what do you mean?
any potential these shipyards will be doing military ships?

 

[KiwiRob]

what do you mean?
any potential these shipyards will be doing military ships?

Not the Deawoo yard, that's going to build LNG tankers. Although they would be built cheaper and quicker in Korea.

Vyborg isn't a military yard either. The Russian military yards are Sevmarsh, Admirality, Severnaya Verf, Baltisky (well they like to think they are), Yantar, Komsomolsk Shipyard. Krasnoye Sormovo also built submarines but haven't in a long time.

 

[wsb05]

Not the Deawoo yard, that's going to build LNG tankers. Although they would be built cheaper and quicker in Korea.

Vyborg isn't a military yard either. The Russian military yards are Sevmarsh, Admirality, Severnaya Verf, Baltisky (well they like to think they are), Yantar, Komsomolsk Shipyard. Krasnoye Sormovo also built submarines but haven't in a long time.

So how will russia build its planned aircraft carrier? There is no yard big enough. Actually there is no free yard for building the prospective Aircraft carrier.

 

[KiwiRob]

So how will russia build its planned aircraft carrier? There is no yard big enough. Actually there is no free yard for building the prospective Aircraft carrier.

Sevmarsh is the designated yard for aircraft carriers now that they can't be built in Nikolayev. I wouldn't believe any rumours of an aircraft carrier construction program until they start building it, from what I understand that's a long long way off.

 

[gf0012-aust]

apparently Russia is now reverting to the Soviet practice of removing the crests, emblems and numbers from russian sub sails

sub command commenced the practice and process of removal recently

this would also be in line with USN Sub command practice

source Izvestia:

С бортов подводных лодок уберут гербы номера - ИзвеÑтиÑ

 

[Feanor]

Russian MoD just denied those reports. We'll see what actually happens.

Lenta.ru:

There was an interesting rapid-readiness exercise involving a para-assault btln of the 155th Marines Brigade, in the Far East. The exercises occurred with so little warning that one of the companies, which was at a different training area, had to be airlifted in.

http://smitsmitty.livejournal.com/113983.html

This does tell us some interesting things. For one, the 2S1 122mm arty pieces seem to be organic to the btln. It's not clear whether they replace the 2S12 Sani 120mm mortars. There are mortars shown in the photos, but I can't tell which type. There was a lot of firing, but the defense line seems to be a hasty one, at best. The BTRs are seen static, with minimal cover, providing basic direct-fire support. This may have to do with the limitations of the live-fire range they were using, but either way it doesn't appear to be very smart.

 

[macman]

Another anti-piracy mission has just sailed from the Pacific Fleet. It's one BDK (ASW destroyer) 3 landing ships, and support vessels. The landing ships are carrying marines. This is a very large number of troops for anti-piracy, more then previously. If they're at max capacity, this means ~1000 Marines. For long voyages numbers are usually less then that, but it's still got to be well over 300 total, otherwise it wouldn't make sense to have so many ships. Most likely a battalion plus sized element.

This is a lot more then usual. While the deployment of the BDKs in themselves makes sense, there's a lot of them (unlike other warships) and their armament is more then enough to deal with any pirates, this many Marines is unusual. Thoughts anyone?

Oh, and the info is from the press service of the Pacific Fleet. On their blog they also published some pics of the departing ships. I think one of them is a Project 775M, with the AK-630 AA guns, and the 76mm gun in the front.

ТихоокеанÑкий флот ВМФ Ð*оÑÑии - КОÐ*ÐБЛИ ПОСТОЯТ, - И ЛОЖÐТСЯ ÐРКУÐ*С...

Where will they be around June 19th?
There is an interesting article from the normally well-informed MK Bhadrakamur (a former well-travelled Indian diplomat) that elements in the US administration are manouvering for a full-scale military intervention into Syria just after the G8 summit that finishes then.
This might be part of 'showing the flag' in attempt to make sure the idea never gets fully formed, ie. if there are major Russian forces in the area this will make the situation much more complicated & a much harder sell to an already sceptical US military...

_http://blogs.rediff.com/mkbhadrakumar/2013/04/16/obamas-choice-grab-syria-or-keep-nobel/

 

[Feanor]

Russian Navy assets, including Marines, have been hanging out in the Mediterranean for a few months now. They include various BDKs, and destroyers from multiple fleets.