Russian Navy Discussions and Updates

[Klaus]

AIR International in its latest issue reports on the ongoing work on the Baltic Sea Fleet's Chkalovsk Airbase, which is due to be completed soon. After that, several units will be deployed there, comprising a mixed fighter/bomber regiment with Su-27s and Su-24s, one transport squadron with a handful of An-26s and a single Tu-134 as well as several helicopter units with unspecified machines.
All of the aircraft have temporariliy been stationed at VVS (?) bases in the western military district.

 

[Feanor]

That airbase is a prime candidate for the Su-30SM, if the AVMF ever gets them. They could replace both types. Of course BSF would get them first, because South MD is top priority, so they would have to wait. And it's not clear the VMF is prioritizing coastal assets in any way. Coastal AShM procurement rates are proceeding at a snails pace.

 

[Blackshoe]

Another anti-piracy mission has just sailed from the Pacific Fleet. It's one BDK (ASW destroyer) 3 landing ships, and support vessels. The landing ships are carrying marines. This is a very large number of troops for anti-piracy, more then previously. If they're at max capacity, this means ~1000 Marines. For long voyages numbers are usually less then that, but it's still got to be well over 300 total, otherwise it wouldn't make sense to have so many ships. Most likely a battalion plus sized element.

This is a lot more then usual. While the deployment of the BDKs in themselves makes sense, there's a lot of them (unlike other warships) and their armament is more then enough to deal with any pirates, this many Marines is unusual. Thoughts anyone?

It looks like these ships are going to end up in the Mediterranean for some time, per RIA.

 

[Feanor]

It looks like these ships are going to end up in the Mediterranean for some time, per RIA.

Russian Mediterranean activity has skyrocketed recently. Now there are news that one of the Mistrals will be the flagship for the Mediterranean squadron once it's delivered. In the interim the squadron will be commanded from the Moskva (the flagship for the BSF).

 

I really have to wonder what else the squadron will consist of. Deliveries of new corvettes are proceeding at a snails pace. The destroyer project is too far off. The Gorshkov class frigates are even slower in production then the corvettes. They could extend production of the 11356, and in addition to the 6 units for the BSF, produce a few for the proposed Mediterranean force. But so far that doesn't seem to be the plan.

 

[harryriedl]

Russian Mediterranean activity has skyrocketed recently. Now there are news that one of the Mistrals will be the flagship for the Mediterranean squadron once it's delivered. In the interim the squadron will be commanded from the Moskva (the flagship for the BSF).

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I really have to wonder what else the squadron will consist of. Deliveries of new corvettes are proceeding at a snails pace. The destroyer project is too far off. The Gorshkov class frigates are even slower in production then the corvettes. They could extend production of the 11356, and in addition to the 6 units for the BSF, produce a few for the proposed Mediterranean force. But so far that doesn't seem to be the plan.

Would transfers from the black sea fleet make any sense to keep up numbers gut the numbers of vessels in the black sea(who is the fleet aimed at these days anyway?)

 

[Feanor]

Would transfers from the black sea fleet make any sense to keep up numbers gut the numbers of vessels in the black sea(who is the fleet aimed at these days anyway?)

It was estimated that by 2020 the BSF would have to scrap ~20 ships, making the fleet non-existent. An emergency re-armament program was approved that involved 6 project 11356 frigates, 6 kilo subs, and other vessels. So the BSF will see a reduction in numbers, and is considered valuable/important enough to keep around. Transferring those new ships to the BSF makes little sense. Honestly, to me it would make more sense to make the Mediterranean squadron out of the first Gorshkov project and the 3 project 20380s, together with the Mistral, and the new GRU special intelligence ship.

The biggest problem is that at current rates of replenishment, it's not clear that they can even replace the aging Soviet era ships in existing fleets. Granted production rates are increasing, but not that quickly.

 

[alexkvaskov]

Russian Mediterranean activity has skyrocketed recently. Now there are news that one of the Mistrals will be the flagship for the Mediterranean squadron once it's delivered. In the interim the squadron will be commanded from the Moskva (the flagship for the BSF).

*

I really have to wonder what else the squadron will consist of. Deliveries of new corvettes are proceeding at a snails pace. The destroyer project is too far off. The Gorshkov class frigates are even slower in production then the corvettes. They could extend production of the 11356, and in addition to the 6 units for the BSF, produce a few for the proposed Mediterranean force. But so far that doesn't seem to be the plan.

Unless the Syrian crisis continues for at least another 2 years while they wait for the Mistral and induct it, there's no point in stationing the LPD in the Mediterranean. It's not like they'll be putting boots on the ground anywhere in the ME or North Africa; the Mistral would be more useful in any of the other fleets, to deliver troops to the Kurils, Kaliningrad or the Arctic reaches.

They probably won't have enough money in the budget to order more 11356 frigates before 2016, but in any case, by 2020 there should be enough new frigates, corvettes and SSKs in the various fleets (particularly BF and BSF) to create a relatively powerful force in the Mediterranean.

The permanent presence ships will be drawn from the various fleets; in any case, with the 12 new SSKs and FFGs the BSF is set to receive, even when diluted by having to maintain assets on station in the Med will still be much stronger than the BSF of today. Not to mention, the BSF Slava class might be modernized by that time.

 

[Feanor]

Unless the Syrian crisis continues for at least another 2 years while they wait for the Mistral and induct it, there's no point in stationing the LPD in the Mediterranean. It's not like they'll be putting boots on the ground anywhere in the ME or North Africa; the Mistral would be more useful in any of the other fleets, to deliver troops to the Kurils, Kaliningrad or the Arctic reaches.

I think the Mediterranean squadron will be the expeditionary squadron for things like the anti-piracy mission, and monitoring Western military actions in the Middle East.

They probably won't have enough money in the budget to order more 11356 frigates before 2016, but in any case, by 2020 there should be enough new frigates, corvettes and SSKs in the various fleets (particularly BF and BSF) to create a relatively powerful force in the Mediterranean.

The Mediterranean squadron will be a permanent, not temporary, formation. It won't be a rotating composite force. And given the huge delays on the Gorshkov class frigates, some of those funds could be redirected at more project 11356s. Then again, you might be right. The financial situation is messy.

The permanent presence ships will be drawn from the various fleets; in any case, with the 12 new SSKs and FFGs the BSF is set to receive, even when diluted by having to maintain assets on station in the Med will still be much stronger than the BSF of today. Not to mention, the BSF Slava class might be modernized by that time.

Again, not a temporary rotating force, or at least so far they've implied they want a permanent presence, based somewhere in the Middle East.

 

[Wall83]

Putin seems to be loosing patients with USC shipbuilding progress.

Now the head of tank manufacturer Uralvagonzavod, Vladimir Shmakov, has been appointed as new USC head.


Russian Navy Shipbuilding Program

 

[alexkvaskov]

Some updates. Sevmash has signed a contract with the MO for repair and upgrade works on the Admiral Nahimov CGN. The cruiser is to be laid up next year and the target recommissioning is 2018.

http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/34889/

Details on the preliminary composition of the Med squadron.
http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/34831/

It is to consist of three subunits, the first, drawing ships from the Northern Fleet and stationed off the Eastern coast of Greece is to consist of the Admiral Panteleev Udaloy class DDG, 2 BDK, an oiler and the Fotiy Krylov salvage vessel.

The second grouping, also made up of NF ships and to be located off Sicily, is made up of the Severomorsk Udaloy class DDG, an oiler and salvage vessel.

The third subunit is to be located right off the Syrian coast, draws ships from the Baltic Fleet. Currently the Yaroslav Mudryy FFG, 2 BDK, an oiler and a salvage vessel are part of this grouping.

Finally, with two BDK of the Black Sea Fleet (last reported to be in the southern Black Sea a week ago) rounds out the revived Mediterranean presence.

I expect the exact composition to vary greatly as they upgrade and expand the surface forces of the BF and BSF. Potentially a fourth grouping of BSF FFGs and SSKs might be created as the latter begin to enter service en masse over 2014-2018.

One of the problems this squadron will face is lack of naval basing rights in the Med. I think we'll be seeing increased Russian diplomatic activity in the Mediterranean littoral aimed at securing basing rights. No word on which subs will be part of the squadron, or if they will at all. Most likely an SSN and SSK a piece, drawn respectively from the NF and rotating BF/BSF assets.

No mention of any recce/spy ships either, although it's likely a few older Soviet era AGIs and the new project 18280 Ivanov intelligence ship will tag along.

Another aspect that stands out is the massive number of amphibious warfare ships. These can be used to evacuated Russian citizens and deliver everything from marines to humanitarian aid to guns for friendly regimes.

The grouping as it is right has no area air defence and weak anti-surface capability. In practice this means the grouping is more of a ceremonial affair for now, but has the potential to become much stronger if the rearmament program is carried out successfully. Much more important is the fact that the ships are out and about, crews training and inter-fleet force concentration being improved.

What's interesting is that the Udaloy class ships have emerged firmly as the most active and seaworthy ships in the VMF inventory, at least out of the older vessels. I can't recall any lengthy project 956 Sovremenny DDG deployments, but I could have just missed it. IIRC the 956s have propulsion issues and don't deploy for long range cruises (if at all). Does anyone know what's going with these ships right now? With the Udaloy's slated for a multirole upgrade starting from 2016, I think it's likely the 956s will be retired by 2020.

 

[Feanor]

Russian press was speculating that Russia may try to negotiate basing right from Israel, if the situation in Syria continues to deteriorate, and an agreement for a Russian naval facility may be part of an overall solution which would involve pulling the plug on Assad. But I don't think that's real. So ultimately the fate of the Mediterranean squadron will heavily depend on Syria, at least in the near future. It does seem like a hodge-podge grouping of whatever they have available, rather then a task force tailored to a purpose, or a multi-purpose grouping.

The Admiral Nakhimov will not only be upgraded, but all the main weapons on it are getting replaced. Kalibr and Oniks are replacing the older missiles, and an S-400 air-defense complex replacing the S-300F. I wonder if/how they replace the Osa. They could use a navalized Tor, or something else entirely.

There's also a 3-year contract for upgrading the Il-38 to Il-38N. It's more then one aircraft but the number is unknown.

http://alexeyvvo.livejournal.com/32960.html

 

[alexkvaskov]

I wonder how many Onyx the upgraded Kirov will have, considering that it can carry 20 Shipwrecks and those weigh more than double the Onyx.

 

[alexkvaskov]

Judging by the number cited - 3.45 billion Rubles, or ~110 million USD, it's probably 6-10 planes. And the completion date - late next year, so 3 a year sounds right on the mark.

 

[alexkvaskov]

Looks like the entire Slava class is up for an upgrade.

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Currently the Zvezdochka yard at Severodvinsk is working on the Marshal Ustinov, with the ship planned to be recommissioned in 2015. Recent plans also call for the other two cruisers, the Moskva and Varyag to receive modern comms, radars and missiles. I have to wonder what missiles they'll install on the upgraded Slava's - most likely Onyx and navalized S-400's.

 

[Feanor]

The new GRU intel ship is coming along nicely. Handover seems to be on track for next year. It's a much needed addition, given deteriorating Soviet-era naval ISR assets.

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Also the project 21631 small missile ship (MRK) is being towed to a location for factory, and then state trials. Honestly it's rather large for an MRK. And a little over-armed. It's more of a small corvette.

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Overall they seem to realize that they will have to rely heavily on modernized Soviet ships, while slowly increasing production rates.

 

[alexkvaskov]

The Il-38 contract is for five airframes.
alexeyvvo -

 

[colay]

What seems to be the problem of the Bulava? The Land version Topol is a highly successful missile.

I read somewhere that the root of the problem is that Bulava was built to ICBM standards and did not take into account unique demands of a SLBM environment. Don't know how valid this claim is though.

 

[Feanor]

A little update on the Eysk NITKA variant, first flights have begun, but it appears that it isn't actually complete yet. Both the MiG-29K and Su-25UTG were used. Completion is planned either late this year or early next.

Lenta.ru:
 

Also the contract has been signed on resumption of construction for the second project 667 Lada class, the Kronshtatd. The contract specifies a modified design for the sub, from the originally intended one. The oxygen independent power plant will not be installed, because it's not ready.

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[colay]

Simply hilarious, a giant Russian hovercraft lands on a crowded beach and the crowd just take it in stride, seemingly daring the behemoth to run them over. I wasn't aware they had something that huge, dwarfs the more familiar LCAC.

Russian military hovercraft lands on crowded Baltic beach [VIDEO] - UPI.com

 

[Feanor]

Some news and food for thought, the modernization of the Kirovs is moving ahead despite delays and question of utility. The contact for the development of the upgrade package for the Admiral Nakhimov was signed. Also signed was a contract for the removal and utilization of the older equipment, to be replaced. The upgraded project will be called 11442M. The contract has a flexible cost scheme (hehe, I wonder why ) with total cost estimated at 2.8 bln roubles (~90 mln dollars)

bmpd -

Moving ahead, albeit not too fast, is production of small patrol boats. The fourth Grachonok project 21980 has been handed over, the fifth is in trials, and 6th nearing completion. 4 others, on two separate shipyards, are in various stages of production.

Also the first project 03160 rapid patrol boat has been completed. It's called a patrol boat, but it's stated purpose is to deliver a group of up to 20 passengers to a location, with very rapid speeds of embarking and disembarking. Handover is planned in September. CAST says that this boat is a de-facto licensed copy of the Swedish CombatBoat 90, 11 of which are in use by the FSB border patrol. Since the MoD has higher requirements for localization, it's possible that they couldn't import, and had to locally produce the variant.

Also nearing handover is a rapid boat for special forces, project 15120 Mangust. Two of them were handed over to the SpetzNaz GRU in 2008-09 for the Black Sea Fleet, and two more in 2011, based in Vladivostok. Two more were contracted, and this is the first of those two.

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And two Project 20631 are heading to the Caspian right now, for trials and acceptance, for service with the Caspian Flotilla. They will significantly augment the Caspian Flotilla, which currently boasts two Project 20630 ships (weaker-armed variants of the same), and smaller ships.

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Finally, the second project 20385 was laid down, named Provorniy, with development workproceeding on a project 20386. This isn't very surprising. Project 20380 was originally an under-armed export ship, that the VMF bought for lack of better alternatives. And there seem to be indications that the older ship variants (current project 20380s) can be brought up to 20385 status as part of overhauls later.

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Among all these news there is relatively little heard of the Admiral Gorshkov, which is still taking forever to finish. And of course nothing on the new destroyer project.