Russia to get SU-35 by 2011

Haavarla

Haavarla

Active Member
nevidimka said:
They are banking on Supercruise engines for the SU35BM. Currently the works are ongoing to get the thrust up to their expected power, and make it reliable enough to have a very good TBO. But in any case, even if it doesnt achieve supercruise because of its external loadout and non optimised airframe for the supersonic regime, it will still boost its ability in A2A alot, as no other fighter other than the typhoon and F22 have supercruise engines.
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Conserning supercruise capability on the Su-35BM, they made som modernization on the airframe such as the tailfins are lowered a bit and the "sting" potrouding out between the Nozzle's is shorter, bigger intakes. they used a lot of coposites to lower the weight.
They remowed the airbrake on top for more fuel volum.
Lighter systems inside.
Some state the aircraft is 10% other 20% lighter than it predosessor..
Anyway, considering the extra fuel i think they did a very good job reducing the weight.

Extended high-lift devices with large flaperon occuping the full trailing edge of the wing and they extended the nose a bit for the new radar.

I' am sure they manage to reduce the overall drag a little. With the extra thrust it remains to see if the aircraft really can make supercruise with a light mission configuration(4 missile)..
Well i sure hope they do :)
 
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nevidimka

New Member
Nice Info Haavarla. Adding to that I also read that they reduced the size of the nozzles. Not sure why is that so, and its also not widely published in SU35BM articles.

And regarding the the airbrake omission, I wonder why would they keep increasing the fuel on the already impressive range of the flanker series if not doing so could shed more weight and help it with its thrust for supercruise.

And regarding the tail sting, I noticed from picstures, that they have a new kinda hump on its midway between the lenght of the tail sting. Perhaps a larger radar inside?
 
gf0012-aust

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
nevidimka said:
And regarding the tail sting, I noticed from picstures, that they have a new kinda hump on its midway between the lenght of the tail sting. Perhaps a larger radar inside?
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That's part of the missile deflector system. It's got nothing to do with larger radar
 
Haavarla

Haavarla

Active Member
Haavarla said:
Conserning supercruise capability on the Su-35BM, they made som modernization on the airframe such as the tailfins are lowered a bit and the "sting" potrouding out between the Nozzle's is shorter, bigger intakes. they used a lot of coposites to lower the weight.
They remowed the airbrake on top for more fuel volum.
Lighter systems inside.
Some state the aircraft is 10% other 20% lighter than it predosessor..
Anyway, considering the extra fuel i think they did a very good job reducing the weight.

Extended high-lift devices with large flaperon occuping the full trailing edge of the wing and they extended the nose a bit for the new radar.

I' am sure they manage to reduce the overall drag a little. With the extra thrust it remains to see if the aircraft really can make supercruise with a light mission configuration(4 missile)..
Well i sure hope they do :)
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I might add that they picked up the AL-41F1 program after it was abandomed earlier back in the 90's. Back then it was part of a heavy fighter
engine(AL-41A1 or something) program.
The prosject that was canceled due to lack of funding.

Anyway a have read a report that they are working on designing a new engine core for the upcoming PAK/FA at the NPO Saturn in Lykatrino. Production will take place at the UMPO factory in Ufa, as well as the AL-41F1 on the new su-35 today.
There is a limit for how much more power the can cram out of the older
AL-31/41F1 engine core.

Also that the next 2 Su-35's coming out 2008/09 will have installed most of the systems including the long anticipated Ibris-E radars who are currently beeing produced at the RPZ factory in Ryazan.
The No.902-903 will serve as test bed for radar and other systems.

While the Ibris-E is a powerfull radar, it lack some of the capability's of western AESA radar's today. So it is a tiny small chance that the upcoming active sh-121 AESA radar beeing develoment by Tikhomirov NIIP could be installed on the Su-35 at a later date when it is ready for airborne testing. :)


source: reporter Piotr Butowski. Combat Aircraft magazine.
 
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gf0012-aust

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Haavarla said:
Interesting.. i never heard of it.
Are u sure it's not part of the OLS system?
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More than sure.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but that backside would be generating enough material to cause localised global warming. :)
 
gf0012-aust

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
nevidimka said:
Yeah, I'm lost too. And whats a missile deflector??
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?? Have a close look at the backside of the plane - it's self evident.

You normally see them on larger aircraft that have big signature footprints. They're designed to alert the pilot or EW system that a missile has been detected, and depending what mods have been done, there will be countermeasure systems.

The Israelis IIRC were the first to develop them, and straight after 911 every vendor under the sun was flogging them off to charter owners.

Flat arrays angled out are a dead give away.....
 
gf0012-aust

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Haavarla said:
:) Dude hi's just messing around..
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actually I'm not.

part of a self protection suite - yes
part of an enhanced "radar" - no
designed to alert and trigger EW (ie escape and evade a missile) - yes.

It's got nothing to do with radar
 
Haavarla

Haavarla

Active Member
gf0012-aust said:
actually I'm not.

part of a self protection suite - yes
part of an enhanced "radar" - no
designed to alert and trigger EW (ie escape and evade a missile) - yes.

It's got nothing to do with radar
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ok, how does the sensors work then? Doesn't the radar do the trick in trigger an alert if it detect a missile?

What function will the small radar have?
 
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Feanor

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
iirc the Su-35 and Su-34 both have a second radar that faces the rear. That might be what it is, rather then an ECM piece. Also if the ECM doesn't use radar, then how does it alert itself to the presence and location of hostile missiles? Or better yet how does it distinguish between a hostile missile, hostile plane, or something else that happens to be there?
 
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Scorpion82

New Member
Feanor said:
iirc the Su-35 and Su-34 both have a second radar that faces the rear. That might be what it is, rather then an ECM piece. Also if the ECM doesn't use radar, then how does it alert itself to the presence and location of hostile missiles? Or better yet how does it distinguish between a hostile missile, hostile plane, or something else that happens to be there?
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The current Su-35-1 hsa defintely no rear facing radar. Why? Look at the videos when the aircraft deploys a brake chute on landing. The old Su-35 (Su-27M) had a rear facing radar, but it had to reject the brake chute for that. There were indeed indications that the new Su-35 would receive a rear facing radar as well, but all these sources are older and all recent ones don't mention it at all.
Ever heared about passive sensors such as RWR/ESM or about MAW? These devices will identify missiles...
 
Haavarla

Haavarla

Active Member
Scorpion82 said:
The current Su-35-1 hsa defintely no rear facing radar. Why? Look at the videos when the aircraft deploys a brake chute on landing. The old Su-35 (Su-27M) had a rear facing radar, but it had to reject the brake chute for that. There were indeed indications that the new Su-35 would receive a rear facing radar as well, but all these sources are older and all recent ones don't mention it at all.
Ever heared about passive sensors such as RWR/ESM or about MAW? These devices will identify missiles...
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Scorpion82 is right. This Su-35 No.901 does not have any radar installed in the front or the "back". Why?
They havent decided yet if they even need a radar there, consider the detection grid(main radar/ols/RWR/ECM etc. etc.

The old radar they used in the back spine in the 80-90's in some Su-27M wasn't much to brag about. The power of those radar was next to zero, cause if u think of the time back then every component they came up with was big-ass-big in size. :)

Mayby they use the "spine" for integrated flare and chaff or whatever..


Can someone plz tell me how those EWE-ECM and MAW system works?? They are all conected with the Radar and not a stand alone systems?
 
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Scorpion82

New Member
Haavarla said:
Can someone plz tell me how those EWE-ECM and MAW system works?? They are all conected with the Radar and not a stand alone systems?
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MAW = Missile Approach Warner
Most MAWs are based on passive IR or UV sensors which are optimised to detect the plumes characteristic for missiles. If suc a plume is detected the system can track it and alert the pilot about an incoming missile. There're for sure algorithms which are used to identify if a missile is closing onto the aircraft or flying somewhere else meaning that it's not a threat to the aircraft. Some MAWS use mm-wave radars which are optimised to detect and track small fast flying objects meaning missiles...

EWE = Early Warning Equipment?
I suppose you mean RWR (radar warning receiver). These and ESM (Electronic Support Measures) are passive systems which detect electromagnetical emissions over a certain frequency band. The RWR detects the emissions can give bearing information to the source. Most advanced RWRs use databases and compare the detected emissions to examples stored in the database to identify specific radar types and even modes. Radars use specific illumination modes for guiding SAHR missiles, that's usually an indications that such a missile is launched at the aircraft. ARH guided missiles have their own seeker whose radiation can be detected and identified. ESM additionally provided ranging capabilities etc.
 
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nevidimka

New Member
eaf-f16 said:
Are these the bumps you mean?

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think those are RWR.
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No, i did not mean those things that you have circled, rather look at the 1st pic you provided. Right behind the things u circled there appears to be a boxy deformation of the tail things. Its that. Those were never present in any flanker series b4 this.

Also what is that 'L' shaped black thing hanging below the tail sting? I notiece them too on the cockpit canopy.
 
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