Russia to get SU-35 by 2011

[Feanor]

Feanor,

can I ask a favour? Would it be possible for you to give me a similar breakdown of other major types in the VVS, & their approximate numbers?

There are 3 more or less comprehensive sources I know of: scramble, warfare.ru and Moscow Defense Brief. So I'll list the numbers given by all 3. There will definetly be some discrepancies, and the MDB numbers are the most up to date ones (they're from the February issue, of this year).

MiG-29: MDB lists 5 regiments, out of which 2 are in the special purpose command, 2 are in the 4th Air Army and 1 in the 14th Air Army.

Scramble lists 6 regiments, 7 regiments that include the MiG-29 (though the problem is that some of them listed the Su-27 and MiG-29, confusion may stem from someone not being able to recognize the difference and listing both to indicate that) and some MiG-29's in the demo unit that includes aerobatics teams like Russian Knights etc. Also scramble lists all MiG-29 flying units. MDB listed only VVS units. I don't know if all PVO units have been transfered to VVS command yet or not. That may account for some of the discrepancy. Another part may be that the Naval Aviation uses some, which would also not be listed.

Warfare.ru Lists 5 active combat regiments, 2 training regiments, an independent squadron in Armenia, and some stored at storage bases as well as flight test centers. It also mentions ~110 used by the Naval Aviation.

We can safely assume that the VVS flies around 5 regiments, which (at 2 squadrons each) would give us 120 combat airframes.

MiG-31

MDB lists 5 regiments, 1 in the Special purpose command, and 1 in each of the 5th 6th 11th and 14th Air Armies.

Scramble lists 4 regiments of MiG-31 and 8 regiments that include the MiG-31. However the information is dated, and the mixed regiments are all either mixed with MiG-25U or Su-24 aircraft, which makes me suspect that they're recon or disbanded units (it makes no sense to fly the Foxbat, when mothballed Foxhounds are at Nizhniy Tagil due to lack of funds for units).

Warafare.ru lists 6 fighter regiments, an independent regiment, and some located a flight test center. It claims that one of the regiments is in the Naval Aviation. This is suspect, as it makes little sense, but not impossible.

The estimates vary rather wildly. Also MDB does not list the MiG-25MR (recon variant) which is supposedly still flying, only 5 regiments of the Su-24MR. Nor do they have any mention of the MiG-25U which scramble lists as mixed with the MiG-31 regiments. I would not think that more then 6 regiments are likely to be active, but it's hard to get any definite information.

And it's getting very late, this post is getting very long, and scrolling through scramble's list is getting very annoying. So I'm going to have to say good night for today, as I do have work tomorrow. However I'll get back to you on the other aircraft tomorrow. I am looking forward to doing some research on the Su-25 modernization program.

 

[swerve]

Feanor,

thanks. I didn't realise that you were checking Scramble & warfare.ru. I can do that myself. I wasn't aware of the list in MDB, but now you've mentioned it, I've been able to find it online, in their archive. An interesting read, thanks for putting me on to it.

 

[Sintra]

Many thx for the update, i didn't know the Su-27 upgrade program was that big..:unknown

What is the content of the Su-27SM update?

Actually it´s not "that big". Untill now the program his restricted to 48 units.
There were two contracts signed, each one for the upgrade of a Regiment (24 Units) of SU-27SM. There´s no contract for another "0.5 Regiment" to be delivered "this fall".
And they are not being delivered "24 units a year", more like half of that. The first contract took three years to be completed and the second one (signed in 29 November 2006), if everything goes according to the original plan, will see the last fighter delivered to the Russian Air Force by December 2008,

 

[Feanor]

Sintra this fall the second regiment is to be completed. I may have made a mistake with the single squadron upgrade. I've never actually seen confirmation of the contract. However it made a lot of sense in terms of the numbers, since a few years back I saw the article about a live firing exercise by the first Su-27SM squadron in the Far East. The article mentioned no regimental level contracts, and it seemed like the squadron was all that was delivered. Also the recent MDB articles listed 36 Su-27SM. Since the second regimental contract was due to be completed this fall, I again assumed that the odd number must be due to a single squadron delivery that took place before any of the major regimental contracts were signed. Perhaps I made a mistake, but the numbers seemed to fit together all too neatly. After a bit of searching I found another forum which cites an Interfax article saying that the first 5 Su-27SM were delivered in 2003. Here's the link: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread115082/pg1 However I didn't manage to find the article on interfax.

As for the program continuing or not, time will tell. Perhaps another regimental contract will be signed. Possibly even a larger one, after all the T-90A production line was expanded to two battallions this year, and from now on. Also consider that the procurement budget has been growing steadily.

The Su-27SM upgrade contains a re-engining to the AL-31FM1. The engine is supposedly thrust vectoring. The upgrade gives the plane the ability to fire high-precision anti-ground weapons, and the R-77.

And the little bit that I was particularly interested in, Su-25 upgrade programs. MDB mentions 10 Su-25SM delivered. An article at deagle.com mentions 6 handed over in 2006, with 6 more planned for 2007. The MDB procurement chart for 2007 confirms modernization of 6 aircraft in that year's budget. Interfax also confirmed the delivery of 6 more in 2007. So ~1 squadron is upgraded, with more likely to come this year.

 

[Scorpion82]

The Su-27SM upgrade contains a re-engining to the AL-31FM1. The engine is supposedly thrust vectoring. The upgrade gives the plane the ability to fire high-precision anti-ground weapons, and the R-77.
.

I just recently read about the Su-27SM being reengined with the AL-31FM1. Are there any official news/press releases about that? Older sources don't speak about new engines at all. AFAIK Sintra is right about the two contracts each for 24 Su-27SM giving a total of 48.

 

[aaaditya]

sukhoi 35 has also been offered to the indian airforce.if selected by the iaf these aircrafts will form a formidable and long serving combination with the su-30mki of the indian airforce in a manner similiar to the mig23/mig27 combination

here is the link and the article:

http://www.hindu.com/2008/07/17/stories/2008071755201400.htm


Su-35 has larger wings and more powerful engines than Sukhoi-30
Pilot can track up to 30 aerial targets while engaging eight at the same time


NEW DELHI: Russia is ready to export state-of-the-art Su-35 air superiority-cum-strike fighter to India, said officials of Rosoboronexport, the country’s sole arms exporting company.
The fourth generation plus (4 +) fighter is rated next to the fifth generation American F-22 Raptor, which, however, is not for export. Till now, the Russians were also not keen on selling the fighter.
Su-35 has larger wings and more powerful engines than the Sukhoi-30 MKI, which is in service with the Indian Air Force, with more fighters being added at one a month.
It also uses more advanced materials for the airframe and incorporates a new-generation radar which allows the pilot to detect and track up to 30 aerial targets while engaging up to eight of them at the same time.
Russia intends exporting at least 160 Su-35 to customers of its Su-30 series.
Although India has t

 

[Haavarla]

sukhoi 35 has also been offered to the indian airforce.if selected by the iaf these aircrafts will form a formidable and long serving combination with the su-30mki of the indian airforce in a manner similiar to the mig23/mig27 combination

here is the link and the article:

http://www.hindu.com/2008/07/17/stories/2008071755201400.htm


Su-35 has larger wings and more powerful engines than Sukhoi-30
Pilot can track up to 30 aerial targets while engaging eight at the same time


NEW DELHI: Russia is ready to export state-of-the-art Su-35 air superiority-cum-strike fighter to India, said officials of Rosoboronexport, the country’s sole arms exporting company.
The fourth generation plus (4 +) fighter is rated next to the fifth generation American F-22 Raptor, which, however, is not for export. Till now, the Russians were also not keen on selling the fighter.
Su-35 has larger wings and more powerful engines than the Sukhoi-30 MKI, which is in service with the Indian Air Force, with more fighters being added at one a month.
It also uses more advanced materials for the airframe and incorporates a new-generation radar which allows the pilot to detect and track up to 30 aerial targets while engaging up to eight of them at the same time.
Russia intends exporting at least 160 Su-35 to customers of its Su-30 series.
Although India has t

We're talking about sometime after 2011 right? They have to complete the test program on the Su-35BM first. A lot of thing can happen in 3-4 years.

Have the Indian Air Force decided witch aircraft to buy yet?
I sure hope they will buy Su-35BM in the future!

The Indian Air Force had their first air combat exercise since 1959 after 47 years. It would be very interesting to see a combat exercise between a
Su-35BM and any western fighter in the future..

 

[Feanor]

The Su-35BM is going to start being offered to practically anyone with the money to pay for it (with the possible exception of China ). It was a fairly expensive program, and they need export orders to cover the costs, especially since even the most optimistic predictions only see the VVS buying 2-3 regiments worth of. I don't know, add in 6-12 trainers, and that still gets us under 100 airframes.

 

[Chrom]

The Su-27SM upgrade contains a re-engining to the AL-31FM1. The engine is supposedly thrust vectoring. The upgrade gives the plane the ability to fire high-precision anti-ground weapons, and the R-77.

.

AL-31FM1 can potentially be trust-vectoring - if corresponding device is installed. However, it is 100% sure what SM upgrade do not incorporate any trust vectoring. Generally, SM is very cheap upgrade. Its main weakness is old radar.

 

[Feanor]

Which radar does it use?

 

[tphuang]

The Su-35BM is going to start being offered to practically anyone with the money to pay for it (with the possible exception of China ). It was a fairly expensive program, and they need export orders to cover the costs, especially since even the most optimistic predictions only see the VVS buying 2-3 regiments worth of. I don't know, add in 6-12 trainers, and that still gets us under 100 airframes.

are you kidding me? They've been trying to sell su-35 to China for a long time. The only thing they did say is that they wouldn't sell 117S and Irbis alone to China. If China ever places an order, it would be for a minimum of 50 fighters. Where else are you going to get that kind of sales? But of course, with the progress of J-11 series, they wouldn't do that.

 

[Chrom]

Which radar does it use?

SM?? Old Su-27 radar. Antenna itself is not upgraded, processing unit is slightly upgraded.

 

[Haavarla]

SM?? Old Su-27 radar. Antenna itself is not upgraded, processing unit is slightly upgraded.

Witch Radar do The Indian Air Force use on their Su-30MKI's?

I know they put some French and Israel systems into the Su-30 when they upgraded the avionics..

 

[Chrom]

Witch Radar do The Indian Air Force use on their Su-30MKI's?

I know they put some French and Israel systems into the Su-30 when they upgraded the avionics..

relative new BARS. Yes, it is much newer than stuff on Su-27SM.

 

[Haavarla]

......................

 

[Haavarla]

relative new BARS. Yes, it is much newer than stuff on Su-27SM.

ok, thx.
How many of the 50 Su-30MKI's have thrust vector today?
I remember reading the last batch of Su-30 leaving the Irkut plant in 2005 had installed TVC?


And is the new Su-35BM gonna be comparable to the Su-30MKI in manuvereability and speed consider the new Su-35 don't have any carnard's and is somewhat heavier than Su-30MKI?

 

[Scorpion82]

ok, thx.
How many of the 50 Su-30MKI's have thrust vector today?
I remember reading the last batch of Su-30 leaving the Irkut plant in 2005 had installed TVC?


And is the new Su-35BM gonna be comparable to the Su-30MKI in manuvereability and speed consider the new Su-35 don't have any carnard's and is somewhat heavier than Su-30MKI?

All Su-30MKIs have AL-31FP TVC engines, this inculdes the first examples delivered in June 2002.
The new Su-35 is likely to be superior in most areas to the Su-30MKI using even newer and more advanced technologies including the Irbis radar which is a further development of the BARS used in the MKI. The Su-35 won't be heavier than the Su-30MKI but lighter, yet with more powerfull 3-D TVC engines, 20 % more fuel...

 

[nevidimka]

ok, thx.
How many of the 50 Su-30MKI's have thrust vector today?
I remember reading the last batch of Su-30 leaving the Irkut plant in 2005 had installed TVC?


And is the new Su-35BM gonna be comparable to the Su-30MKI in manuvereability and speed consider the new Su-35 don't have any carnard's and is somewhat heavier than Su-30MKI?

The canard was necessitated due to the heavy weight of the BARS radar, making the nose of the plane heavier. The canard fixed the responsiveness of the aircraft control. However the IRBIS-E is lighter, hence there was no need for Canards to improve its flight characteristics.

 

[qwerty223]

The canard was necessitated due to the heavy weight of the BARS radar, making the nose of the plane heavier. The canard fixed the responsiveness of the aircraft control. However the IRBIS-E is lighter, hence there was no need for Canards to improve its flight characteristics.

those who does not know what's a wing and what a rudder will said funny things like this.

 

[Chrom]

those who does not know what's a wing and what a rudder will said funny things like this.

Aye, canards have nothing to do with radar weight.