F-15 Eagle
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I just wounder if and when these will enter service and how many for the Russian Air Force. I doubt it will be enough to replace all 168 or so Su-27s already in service.
Russia to get SU-35 by 2011
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Haavarla
Active Member
I read a article on the 117-S engine. Someone from NPO Saturn comment that they feelt the 117-S had more potential in the increase of
thrust regime. There was some numbers close to 15.000kgf.
Of course i can't say this will be on the productions series 117-S engine..
I think we will see the 117-S Engine as a standard engine in Su-35 to come.
The first PAK-FA prototype will feature 117-S engine too.
NPO Saturn has produced a fair amount of these engine by now.
The Su-35-03 should be around the corner as we speak, maybe in Des/Jan i think.
As i understand, there will be only four prototype of the Su-35. One Static airframe, and the three Su-35-01-03. From there KNAAPO will start on the production series.
Does anybody know if there is any change in this?
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Haavarla
Active Member
As i understand, some of the the Su-34 will be the first testbed for AL-41F.
The engine is still under development, but i'm sure they have procured several in test benches and possible some in flight as well.
The thrust regime of the AL-41F engine will be somwhere around 15.500+kgf, but we just have to wait and see..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_AL-41
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Haavarla
Active Member
Here is the rest of the Su-35 Supercruise article i found:
The newest Sukhoi jet does not have canards, reducing the drag generated by these forward fuselage-mounted control surfaces (which are used on the Su-30). However, canards do provide improved performance and controllability at high angles of attack. Since the size of the wing remains the same, removing the canards from the Su-35 results in a smaller total area for the horizontal surfaces. However, by reworking the airframe for lower weights (with the use of more composites, for example), removing the canards and deleting the aircraft's large upper air brake along with the activators, Sukhoi designers managed to reduce Su-35's structural weight to that of the original Su-27. Choosing a more classic layout for the Su-35, its designers were also driven by the super cruise considerations.
Controlling the thrust
Sukhoi designers have no doubts that thrust vector control is a must for modern fighters
What the Su-30MKI and the Su-35 do share is their thrust vector control. Sukhoi has no doubts that thrust vector control is a must for modern fighters. With the Su-30MKI now operational in India, the Su-30MKM in Malaysia and the Su-30MKA in Algeria, vectored thrust has now earned its place in the history of supersonic combat aircraft.
Sukhoi pilot Sergei Bogdan underscores the benefits of vectored thrust at slow speeds. "We can fly slow, keeping a high angular speed during a bank. Inertial forces try to increase the angle of attack when the airplane rotates with the ailerons, but we use vectored thrust to create a compensating force generating a pitch-down motion," he explains. "Thereby we keep the angle of attack under control. In the end, the airplane remains controllable in a much wider flight envelope. Besides, it can demonstrate faster angular speed in bank."
Thrust vector control provides a maneuvering advantage in air combat, with the pilot having the ability to get the enemy in sight faster than its opponent to shoot first. Bogdan acknowledges, however, that air-to-air combat is more and more rare, leading to some skepticism within military circles about the value of investing in thrust vector control.
Admittedly, thrust vectoring is not completely useful at low speeds. A small nozzle deflection helps in supersonic flight as well and it also can provide stand-by control functions in case of failure with the primary flight controls.
For air combat involving long-range missile engagements, the Su-35's high climb and acceleration rates, plus super cruise regime, modern missiles and extended-range electronically-scanned radar are considered as clear advantages for the new Russian-developed fighter. The aircraft's Irbis-E radar, developed by the V.V. Tikhomirov Scientific-Research Institute of Instrument Design (NIIP), is a follow-on to the Su-30MKI's N-011M Bars radar.
By combining "something old, something new," Sukhoi hopes to be able to offer the Russian military and overseas customers a highly capable combat jet with good "out of the box" reliability from its entry into service.
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=85695
"Inertial forces try to increase the angle of attack when the airplane rotates with the ailerons, but we use vectored thrust to create a compensating force generating a pitch-down motion," he explains. "Thereby we keep the angle of attack under control. In the end, the airplane remains controllable in a much wider flight envelope. Besides, it can demonstrate faster angular speed in bank."
Does this mean the onboard fly by-wire computer will compensate and control the TVC, so the AOA don't become to big and derby help conserving energy?
The newest Sukhoi jet does not have canards, reducing the drag generated by these forward fuselage-mounted control surfaces (which are used on the Su-30). However, canards do provide improved performance and controllability at high angles of attack. Since the size of the wing remains the same, removing the canards from the Su-35 results in a smaller total area for the horizontal surfaces. However, by reworking the airframe for lower weights (with the use of more composites, for example), removing the canards and deleting the aircraft's large upper air brake along with the activators, Sukhoi designers managed to reduce Su-35's structural weight to that of the original Su-27. Choosing a more classic layout for the Su-35, its designers were also driven by the super cruise considerations.
Controlling the thrust
Sukhoi designers have no doubts that thrust vector control is a must for modern fighters
What the Su-30MKI and the Su-35 do share is their thrust vector control. Sukhoi has no doubts that thrust vector control is a must for modern fighters. With the Su-30MKI now operational in India, the Su-30MKM in Malaysia and the Su-30MKA in Algeria, vectored thrust has now earned its place in the history of supersonic combat aircraft.
Sukhoi pilot Sergei Bogdan underscores the benefits of vectored thrust at slow speeds. "We can fly slow, keeping a high angular speed during a bank. Inertial forces try to increase the angle of attack when the airplane rotates with the ailerons, but we use vectored thrust to create a compensating force generating a pitch-down motion," he explains. "Thereby we keep the angle of attack under control. In the end, the airplane remains controllable in a much wider flight envelope. Besides, it can demonstrate faster angular speed in bank."
Thrust vector control provides a maneuvering advantage in air combat, with the pilot having the ability to get the enemy in sight faster than its opponent to shoot first. Bogdan acknowledges, however, that air-to-air combat is more and more rare, leading to some skepticism within military circles about the value of investing in thrust vector control.
Admittedly, thrust vectoring is not completely useful at low speeds. A small nozzle deflection helps in supersonic flight as well and it also can provide stand-by control functions in case of failure with the primary flight controls.
For air combat involving long-range missile engagements, the Su-35's high climb and acceleration rates, plus super cruise regime, modern missiles and extended-range electronically-scanned radar are considered as clear advantages for the new Russian-developed fighter. The aircraft's Irbis-E radar, developed by the V.V. Tikhomirov Scientific-Research Institute of Instrument Design (NIIP), is a follow-on to the Su-30MKI's N-011M Bars radar.
By combining "something old, something new," Sukhoi hopes to be able to offer the Russian military and overseas customers a highly capable combat jet with good "out of the box" reliability from its entry into service.
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=85695
"Inertial forces try to increase the angle of attack when the airplane rotates with the ailerons, but we use vectored thrust to create a compensating force generating a pitch-down motion," he explains. "Thereby we keep the angle of attack under control. In the end, the airplane remains controllable in a much wider flight envelope. Besides, it can demonstrate faster angular speed in bank."
Does this mean the onboard fly by-wire computer will compensate and control the TVC, so the AOA don't become to big and derby help conserving energy?
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From my point of view, there seem to be a problem with making of the AL 41. Its been a long time in the making. 1st the AL 31 got uprated to fill the void, n then the 117-S engine as filling the gap, n yet no concrete news on the AL 41.
What seems to be the problem with making the Al 41? Is the problem related to the mastery of the materials needed to make the the engines or other technological problems or simply funding?
Or is this the normal course of development a new engine takes in the making?
AFAIK, the AL41 would be a totally new engine utilising new technology and is smaller in diameter to the AL 31 due to the smaller PAK FA airframe.
What seems to be the problem with making the Al 41? Is the problem related to the mastery of the materials needed to make the the engines or other technological problems or simply funding?
Or is this the normal course of development a new engine takes in the making?
AFAIK, the AL41 would be a totally new engine utilising new technology and is smaller in diameter to the AL 31 due to the smaller PAK FA airframe.
Haavarla
Active Member
My guessing would be the sheer size of the AL-41F is the main challange.
It wouldn't be a problem to make them fit in a Su-34, but for smaller airframes..:unknown
Russia have proved time over time that they can R&D engines with a lot of power, but to shrink the engine size is where the real deal is today.
Of course the funding matters too, but the NPO Saturn should be a solid and strong enterprise as you all would know by now.
The millitary engines division is but a small part of the NPO Saturn enterprise.
http://www.npo-saturn.ru/!new/index.php?pid=51
The fact that there is so sparse info from NPO Saturn regarding AL-41F, doesn't mean there is problems.
It's probably internal security/anti-spionasj at play here
After all isn't the AL-41F engine direct linked with the PAK-FA program?
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Haavarla
Active Member
Great.
Do you have any links in English SkolZkiy?
Crusader2000
Banned Member
No, Su-35 Orders as of yet..........
FYI
As it stands right now the Russian Goverment has not placed a order for Su-35's.......nor do RuAF really want it. They would be happy to accept upgrade Su-27's until the arrival of the PAK-FA.........The Su-35 was developed mainly for export not as a stop-gap forthe PAK-FA.
Note: If, the RuAF ever get any Su-35's it would likely be a small number just to boost the chances of a export order.
FYI
As it stands right now the Russian Goverment has not placed a order for Su-35's.......nor do RuAF really want it. They would be happy to accept upgrade Su-27's until the arrival of the PAK-FA.........The Su-35 was developed mainly for export not as a stop-gap forthe PAK-FA.
Note: If, the RuAF ever get any Su-35's it would likely be a small number just to boost the chances of a export order.
Crusader2000
Banned Member
I take you mean............
F-22 replaces the F-15C
F-35 replaces F-15's, F-16's, A-10's, F/A-18's, AV-8's, F-117's, etc. etc. etc.
Crusader2000
Banned Member
While, the F-22 with its higher super cruise speed offers advantages in High Speed/Altitude Weapons release. (i.e. High Kinetic Energy) The Primary Mission is Air Superiority. Further, as it stands right now its Strike Capabilities are quite limited. Further, its doubtful it would be used in such a role with a fleet of B-1's and B-2's ready to go. Especially, considering the very limited numbers Raptors available. On the otherhand the F-35 is design for the Strike Role from the outset..........
Also, as long as you bring it up the F-22 doesn't have a far lower signature (RCS) than the F-35. Especially, from the frontal aspect.......
Simple...............F-22 Air Superiority - F-35 Strike Fighter
(Just like the F-15C and F-16C)
Ozzy Blizzard
New Member
Technically this is correct, however it seems the role of the F-117 has actually been split between different platforms. For hardened targets in many occasions you need a Mk-84 equivalent weapon, and the F-22A is unable to carry that class of weapon internally, the F-117 could. Thus for high value, strategic, hardened targets (F-117's old forte) other assets such as the B-2 or F-35A are needed, and therefore the F-117's role has been replaced by a number of platforms.
Ozzy Blizzard
New Member
Officially the F-22A has replaced the F-117. Thats according to the USAF. The F-22A is capable of strike and SEAD, its capable of carrying the Mk 82 weapon internally and will soon deploy SDB (and have the capability to engage 8 targets from stand off range). Even though the F-22A is primarily an Air Superiority fighter it is quite a capable striker, the ability to ingress at mach 1.5, VLO intact and deliver a weapon from stand off range makes the F-22A more capable than many dedicated strike platforms operational today.
Haavarla
Active Member
It's all very informative, but perhaps this is the wrong tread?