The Arjun Tank

niteshkjain

New Member
http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/jun/17arms.htm

France, which has supplied advanced Mirage-2000 fighters and Scorpene submarines to India, on Tuesday offered to become its full weapons development partner to produce front-line land combat systems for the Indian Army.

"We are ready to transfer front-line technology and work to co-produce and jointly develop advanced systems like higher firepower longer ranger artillery guns and high mobility land mine secure vehicles for Indian security forces," officials of the top French land armament company, Nexter, said in Paris.

The French offer comes at a time when Indian Army is on the threshold of floating its biggest-ever global tenders for 2000-3000 wheeled, towed and tracked 155 mm guns of .52 calibre and 1000-2000 high speed mine protected troop carrying 4x4 and 8x8 specialised troop combat vehicles for forces operating against terrorists and Maoists.

The tenders, according to experts here, could run up to 5-7 billion Euros with deliveries expected in three to five years.

The French offer was echoed by the country's Defence Minister Herve Morim as he threw open the five-day world's biggest land system exhibition, Eurosatory 2008 near Paris.

Spelling out that terrorism had become an international scourge, Morim said France was ready to co-produce and jointly develop high-tech weapons with its strategic partners.

His comments came as leading companies from the US, Europe, Africa and others have put on display technology-driven new weapons systems to combat terrorism keeping their first hand experience gathered during operations in Afghanistan.

Indian Army is planning to float new tenders for purchasing up to 3,000 155 mm .52 calibre artillery guns of which 814 would be wheeled guns and another 1,500 towed guns to bring its artillery firepower up to NATO standards.

The state-owned French land combat systems company, which has recently downsized to become Europe's leading artillery and tank building company has expressed its willingness to co-produce and jointly develop land combat systems with India.

However, Indian defence planners are in a quandary over the purchase of higher firepower artillery guns, with an apparent hesitation in going in for controversial Bofors guns.

While Indian army has progressed tremendously in modernising its infantry and armoured units, its artillery upgrade programme is running 10 years behind schedule.

Nexter is offering its just-produced truck-mounted Caesar wheeled .52 calibre guns which, its top official Laurent Nicolas says, 'is unequalled in strategic mobility and air transportability in a C-130 J transport aircraft'.

The French guns have already been inducted into the French Army and have seen action in Afghanistan.

For the Indian Army's forthcoming order, the French firm would be in competition with Israel's Atmos Soltam System, Serbian Nora, South African Condor and matching guns from Slovakia.

Nexter officials said they are ready to offer the guns on government-to-government sale basis if India so wanted. The Caesar gun can fire six rounds to a distance of 40 km with a rate of fire of six rounds per minute and a gun crew of just five.

The Caesar guns support on board navigator and ballistics computer with muzzle velocity measurement radar and can be used with any fire control system.

"We are ready to transfer full and total technology of the gun systems to India," said Nicolas in comments, which assume significance in view of remarks by Defence Minister A K Antony that foreign nations were reluctant to part with frontline technology to India.

These guns were on display at the Eurosatory. The French company is already collaborating with India to make THL 20 guns, which are being mounted as turrets for army aviation's light combat attack helicopters which are undergoing tests at HAL.

"We have delivered under an agreement signed in 2006 80 such turrets," Nicolas said, indicating that Nexter would also be bidding for India's expected request for proposals for 400 new infantry combat vehicles, which are nuclear biological chemicals (NBC) proof.


You are not suppose to just post the news. You have to add your own comments to it so people/members could know what discussion you want to generate.

If its just about the news than people can find it else where and also on the DT's News Section. If its not there than submit the news to Webs.

Next time if we see a news not being accompanied by the comments of the poster it will be deleted. If the same poster continues posting news in this manner after the 3 such posts he'll be banned for a week.
 
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eckherl

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
@Kams

400 new infantry combat vehicles, do you have additional information inregards to this, also who are some of the contenders, I would speculate that Russia is one of the ones in the running.
 

eckherl

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Oh don't go by what Sengupta has written. Arjun MKII is nothing like what he has written. The hull remains same, incorporates improvements in FCS, TI, Self protection etc..
I would assume that some of the FCS upgrades would be:

Muzzle Reference System
Auto Tracker
Ability to fire Lahat


Counter measure device(s), from whom - Isreal or Russia.
 

Chrom

New Member
I heard Arjun-2 would incorporate autoloader and 3-man system, however gun remains the same 120mm rifled. Is it true?
 

kay_man

New Member
Arjun already has MRS,as far I could recall.
yes you are right . most of the things that is mentioned in this article are already present on arjun mk1. maybe they mean a better one ( next gen).

from what i can recall from earlier reports,

the arjuns director mode will be replaced by autotracker,

next generation armour will replace the chobum style kanchan armour ( the slope of the armour will be more inclined also)

more powerful engine

active protection

more powerful gun (either a higher caliber or bigger gun altogeather)

battle management system

next gen digital fcs

next gen turrret launched missile .if im not wrong the drdo has already developed it. it has BVR CAPABILITY .i.e. a UAV / infantry /other tank can lock on to target and the arjun can fire it .

this is one of the areas i believe in which the battle management system plays a crucial role .
 

eckherl

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Arjun already has MRS,as far I could recall.
Yes and I am sorry - I was thinking of another tank, the bloody thing is most visable on the Arjun. I deserve the dumb as_ /brain fart award on that post.

PS, I really need to ensure that I have at least two cups of coffee before I send out responses.:D
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
next gen turrret launched missile .if im not wrong the drdo has already developed it. it has BVR CAPABILITY .i.e. a UAV / infantry /other tank can lock on to target and the arjun can fire it .
So..... essentially you're turning the tank into a guided artillery piece. Why not use specialized platforms for the role?
 

Chrom

New Member
So..... essentially you're turning the tank into a guided artillery piece. Why not use specialized platforms for the role?
Ya, somewhat strange. Yes, it is nice to have - but similar technology in artillery and aviation will bring 10 times more return, being probably even cheaper. As long as there is no such technology fielded en-mass in artillery and aviation - i see no sense to install it on tank.
 

kay_man

New Member
Ya, somewhat strange. Yes, it is nice to have - but similar technology in artillery and aviation will bring 10 times more return, being probably even cheaper. As long as there is no such technology fielded en-mass in artillery and aviation - i see no sense to install it on tank.
i couldn't agree with you guys less.

wouldn't it be nice if the arjun could sit behind a huge sand dune and pop out missiles on unsuspecting tanks /IFVs while only a small unmanned drone locks on to the targets.

of course it does not have the range of guided rocket artillery but a tank is a much more mobile platform than any artillery .also it much more rugged and cheaper than a dedicated close support aircraft.

so i think its a very good idea to incorporate BVR like technology in tanks .it would definately provide an edge in certain terrains.
 

niteshkjain

New Member
i couldn't agree with you guys less.

wouldn't it be nice if the arjun could sit behind a huge sand dune and pop out missiles on unsuspecting tanks /IFVs while only a small unmanned drone locks on to the targets.

of course it does not have the range of guided rocket artillery but a tank is a much more mobile platform than any artillery .also it much more rugged and cheaper than a dedicated close support aircraft.

so i think its a very good idea to incorporate BVR like technology in tanks .it would definately provide an edge in certain terrains.
Dear, if Tank has to do all these things, then what these guys will do (Check the link given)
http://timesnow.tv/NewsDtls.aspx?NewsID=7035
 

Chrom

New Member
i couldn't agree with you guys less.

wouldn't it be nice if the arjun could sit behind a huge sand dune and pop out missiles on unsuspecting tanks /IFVs while only a small unmanned drone locks on to the targets.

of course it does not have the range of guided rocket artillery but a tank is a much more mobile platform than any artillery .also it much more rugged and cheaper than a dedicated close support aircraft.

so i think its a very good idea to incorporate BVR like technology in tanks .it would definately provide an edge in certain terrains.

Nope, it is not that nice. Small Arjun ATGM's have low range (by indirect weapon standards) and quite low penetrating power. This severely restrict its usefulness outside direct sight. Compare it to artillery, MLRS, aviation... as i said, such capability is nice, but by far not ground breaking. Every other IFV's ATGM or even half-portable ATGM's with same capabilites will do as good or even better than such Arjun ATGM. But with limited resources, one should concentrate to get similar capabilities to artillery, MLRS, aviation first.
 

kams

New Member
AFAIK, Arjun MK II will have same Armor, engine and gun. FCS will have Indigenous gunners sight, ERA will be added, Data link with other tanks is another feature, Autotracker, active protection etc.

India has invited proposals from many countries for Active Protection system. Israel, Germany, Singapore, Russia, and couple of others.

Eckherl, can't recall anything new about 400 IFV. Have to dig a bit, I have been out of touch with Net for cpl of months:shudder
 

aaaditya

New Member
AFAIK, Arjun MK II will have same Armor, engine and gun. FCS will have Indigenous gunners sight, ERA will be added, Data link with other tanks is another feature, Autotracker, active protection etc.

India has invited proposals from many countries for Active Protection system. Israel, Germany, Singapore, Russia, and couple of others.

Eckherl, can't recall anything new about 400 IFV. Have to dig a bit, I have been out of touch with Net for cpl of months:shudder
i believe abhay ifv is expected to be tested next year,bae in partnership with indian comanies has offered its products and so has nexter of france. larsen and toubro and mahindra defence systems are the private companies of choice for the drdo ,bae and nexter.

punj loyd is another candidate for manufacturing armoured vehicles for the indian army in partneship with foreign companis.
 

eckherl

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Dear, if Tank has to do all these things, then what these guys will do (Check the link given)
http://timesnow.tv/NewsDtls.aspx?NewsID=7035
You have to just fall in love with some of the companies who design and build weapons platforms. The information given inregards to the M270 is for a outdated system, we now use M270A1s that have better electronics, reaction times, firing and reloading times, plus a rocket that will reach out and touch you at 300 KMs. ;)
 
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kay_man

New Member
AFAIK, Arjun MK II will have same Armor, engine and gun. FCS will have Indigenous gunners sight, ERA will be added, Data link with other tanks is another feature, Autotracker, active protection etc.

India has invited proposals from many countries for Active Protection system. Israel, Germany, Singapore, Russia, and couple of others.

Eckherl, can't recall anything new about 400 IFV. Have to dig a bit, I have been out of touch with Net for cpl of months:shudder
corrections brother .
the arjun mk2 armour will be an improved version of the kanchan. drdo is gonna build up on the experience they gained during creating kanchan armour.
the armour will be lighter than kanchan but will provide more protection .also it will sloped at more gradual angles. (atleast thats what drdo were saying). this is very old news.

as far as adding ERA blocks goes , then those can be added on arjun mk 1 already...there nothing new about it.

how ever you are right about active protection , data link and autotracker.
 

eckherl

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
AFAIK, Arjun MK II will have same Armor, engine and gun. FCS will have Indigenous gunners sight, ERA will be added, Data link with other tanks is another feature, Autotracker, active protection etc.

India has invited proposals from many countries for Active Protection system. Israel, Germany, Singapore, Russia, and couple of others.

Eckherl, can't recall anything new about 400 IFV. Have to dig a bit, I have been out of touch with Net for cpl of months:shudder
What type of ERA kit, are we talking in terms of more or less a urbanized set up. Also interesting that Singapore is included in the active protective system proposal phase.
 
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kay_man

New Member
BVR for tank !!!!

heres the article . mind you this is not israeli lahat . its indegenously developed missile with bvr capability.

BVR MISSILE DEVELOPED IN INDIA FOR USE IN BATTLE TANK.
Publication Date: 16-JUN-04
Publication Title: AsiaPulse News
Format: Online
Author:
Description NEW DELHI, June 16 Asia Pulse - Indian defence scientists have claimed to have achieved a breakthrough by developing a beyond-visual-range missile "Lahat" for the country's indigenous main battle tank (MBT) Arjun.

The laser anti-homing Lahat missile is capable of being fired from the 120mm rifle gun of the...
 

tatra

New Member
Verified Defense Pro
heres the article . mind you this is not israeli lahat . its indegenously developed missile with bvr capability.

BVR MISSILE DEVELOPED IN INDIA FOR USE IN BATTLE TANK.
Publication Date: 16-JUN-04
Publication Title: AsiaPulse News
Format: Online
Author:
Description NEW DELHI, June 16 Asia Pulse - Indian defence scientists have claimed to have achieved a breakthrough by developing a beyond-visual-range missile "Lahat" for the country's indigenous main battle tank (MBT) Arjun.

The laser anti-homing Lahat missile is capable of being fired from the 120mm rifle gun of the...
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck ....

Why on earth would they (Indians) call that Lahat? It doesn't make sense. Unless it IS Lahat.
 

kams

New Member
What type of ERA kit, are we talking in terms of more or less a urbanized set up. Also interesting that Singapore is included in the active protective system proposal phase.

I am sorry eckherl, I do not have any details of ERA. I posted what I could recollect of an interview of a DRDO official. He specifically stated that upgrades will be only on second lot of Arjun (after first 128 ordered are inducted).

That's the reasom I am rather sceptical of claim of new low weight armor. IA's biggest grouse against Arjun being weight, I would have thought DRDO would have rushed to IA with a low weight version, without waiting for 128 tanks to be inducted.

But I may be completely wrong, as I am really out of touch.

(Damn it's real hard to take of two kids alone when wife is abroad due to an emergency!)

Regarding inclusion of Singapore wrt to protection system, take it with a load of salt.

Regarding 'Lahat'. it is Lahat! It ppears that OFB has acquired rights to licence build it, it was displayed in Defexpo 2008.
 
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