Frankly who cares about the countries that are wagging their finger back and forth and telling Columbia that they did a big no no, none of these countries are massing troops on the Columbian border and threatening them with intimidation, Chavez is out of line with his moves and everyone in that regoin should be suspect of his intentions and what he may be willing to do to reach his goals. Farc is a terrorist group that finds sanctuary located inside of Ecuador with Ecuador doing nothing to stop them. So maybe Columbia should clearly state to Ecuador that if you cannot control your borders and are willing to let scum like this to enter our country then suffer the outcome. This is none of Hugo chavez`s business, if he is willing to come to his little red banner waving buddies aide then both of them better be prepared for the U.S to come to Columbia`s aide. And it is only wishful thinking that Hugo will come out looking like a champion on this. For what Turkey and India has had to deal with along their borders I am really surprised that some of you seem to be more ticked off towards Columbia, are they not able to live in peace and not have to worry about terrorists on her borders. why is it so different with them versus a couple of examples that I have just given. I cannot waite, about the time you guy`s have exhausted this thread, most of you will come to the conclusion that the U.S is to blame.
South American Tensions
- Thread starter Generalissimo
- Start date
Is Ecuador doing nothing to stop them? says who??
Maybe Columbia should coordinate the the Ecuadorian military rather than launching decapitation strikes in a foregine country, rather then lying about the circumstances.
This whole thing has f**k all to do with Chavez. He looking for anything to defect from his domestic situation.
Is this about terrorists? I just thought it was about who gets to control the coke supply.
Maybe if the Americans stopped shoveling drugs up there noses Columbia wouldn't be in the mess its in, but hey a coherent drug policy is the last thing the US needs because its so much more emotionally satisfying to blame Chavez.
So there it is I'm blaming America
:Well - there you go Merocaine, let the anti U.S remarks start to fly and enjoy.Is Ecuador doing nothing to stop them? says who??
Maybe Columbia should coordinate the the Ecuadorian military rather than launching decapitation strikes in a foregine country, rather then lying about the circumstances.
This whole thing has f**k all to do with Chavez. He looking for anything to defect from his domestic situation.
Is this about terrorists? I just thought it was about who gets to control the coke supply.
Maybe if the Americans stopped shoveling drugs up there noses Columbia wouldn't be in the mess its in, but hey a coherent drug policy is the last thing the US needs because its so much more emotionally satisfying to blame Chavez.
So there it is I'm blaming America
The story is getting more interesting. According to some news reports I heard this morning Columbia managed to get their hands on FARC laptops documenting as much as $300 million in aid to FARC from Venezuela in recent years. Looks like Chavez has been a pretty committed supporter of FARC's armed struggle against Columbia. Serious stuff.
Apparently they sent commandos in to raid the site in Ecuador where they killed the FARC leader and grabbed the laptops there. How cool is that? (if it's true).
Apparently they sent commandos in to raid the site in Ecuador where they killed the FARC leader and grabbed the laptops there. How cool is that? (if it's true).
Ecuador
Ecuador should be held accountable for letting this go on remember this guy a terrorist kidnaping's killer who gave press interviews in Ecuador so who's kidding who. You don't become FARC's #2 guy for being a nice guy he's a "ops" correct myself he was a ruthless killer. It shows what ties Ecuador's has with Venezuela can't wait for Chinese base to open when our lease runs out. All these countries complaining there intelligence divisions leaders are smiling as they CROSS him off the big bad guy list. There all are saying glad he's gone and we don't have to deal with him or FARC. Colombia I'm sure would have wanted to do it differently like a "snatch and grab" he's to big a fish to let get away. Who #1 and #3, and #4, maybe there safety in Venezuela or Ecuador already. Brazil, Chile, and Argentina would be flipping out if bad guys like this could carry out spineless killings and kidnappings, they hide 1.2 miles over a countries border. I wish Colombia would have let Brazil's press see the laptop and have a independent source spread the info that would have been cool. Maybe Brazil would smarted up with this guy on there border.
Ecuador should be held accountable for letting this go on remember this guy a terrorist kidnaping's killer who gave press interviews in Ecuador so who's kidding who. You don't become FARC's #2 guy for being a nice guy he's a "ops" correct myself he was a ruthless killer. It shows what ties Ecuador's has with Venezuela can't wait for Chinese base to open when our lease runs out. All these countries complaining there intelligence divisions leaders are smiling as they CROSS him off the big bad guy list. There all are saying glad he's gone and we don't have to deal with him or FARC. Colombia I'm sure would have wanted to do it differently like a "snatch and grab" he's to big a fish to let get away. Who #1 and #3, and #4, maybe there safety in Venezuela or Ecuador already. Brazil, Chile, and Argentina would be flipping out if bad guys like this could carry out spineless killings and kidnappings, they hide 1.2 miles over a countries border. I wish Colombia would have let Brazil's press see the laptop and have a independent source spread the info that would have been cool. Maybe Brazil would smarted up with this guy on there border.
Generalissimo
New Member
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #47
Yes the Columbian Army is one of the most professional in the region.
I have read some reports that Venezuela has sent yet more troops to the border. I don't know if this is a case of a confused media repeating earlier reports of deployments, or if it is truly a new deployment, which if it is true is indeed concerning. Also the Venezuelan Justice minister said "War has already begun". It seems to me that one of the few things that at this point is preventing a war is the fact that Venezuela imports of lot of food and other essentials from Columbia and is experincing shortages already. A complete cutoff would drive prices up to an untolerable level, which would jeprodize Chavez's main objective, improving his domestic position.
Anyone care to Google Earth potential invasion routes?
I heard this from somebody I know in Colombia who wrote
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1718765,00.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23435878
I just want to make sure I'm not missing something if a type of air strike did take place what type and weapons were used?
But I'm not seeing anything about an air raid in the below Times article?
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1718765,00.html
In the below link Ecuador's Presidnt mentions flying deep into Ecuador's border
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23435878
I just want to make sure I'm not missing something if a type of air strike did take place what type and weapons were used?
contedicavour
New Member
If so many countries in the world didn't have automatic anti-American feelings (and Colombia is perceived as a very close ally of America), then such information should really change the world's public opinion's perception of Chavez' meddling in neighboring countries.
This will hopefully at least simplify the passing of support measures by the US, even if the Democrats were to take over the White House...
cheers
Chavez has been using oil revenue as a political promotional bank stream - and none of the money is going back into maint and support.
those oil fields are underperforming already - and mechanically they are becoming highly at risk. there are known failures ocurring at far beyond the maint expected rates.
For all his bluster and bravado, it would not surprise me if he is forcibly removed from within in the very near future as he is bankrupting the country even though there is "wealth" generated. Chavez has bought support and the funds are running out. Fairweather friends abound under those conditions.
I've not been able to find any details about the raid. I first heard about it on the BBC where I understood it to be an airstrike followed by commandos in helicopters. But I can't find much in the way of details - what aircraft or how many, how many troops, etc. Maybe we'll know more in the next couple of days.
Columbian military is so professional
I think at times the country was closely split more then just two ways. The government vs. FARC was there, but the cartels were very powerful at certain times and more openly active in the public then they are now. The 70s & 80s were different then the past 7 to 10 years the Colombian cartels held more power then now. I believe the Mexican cartels hold more power now because they control the routes into the US, still South America's biggest market. It's very complex I read a book or two many years ago about the US DEA and under cover DEA agents, and was blown away by the things that went on. To the point where I wish the US Navy would cash in a sub and buy 100 new US Coast Guard Cutters. I agree with your thinking after 40 years one would expect more results. Sadly this guy never going to lose an election in Venezuela.
A very fair question.
I think at times the country was closely split more then just two ways. The government vs. FARC was there, but the cartels were very powerful at certain times and more openly active in the public then they are now. The 70s & 80s were different then the past 7 to 10 years the Colombian cartels held more power then now. I believe the Mexican cartels hold more power now because they control the routes into the US, still South America's biggest market. It's very complex I read a book or two many years ago about the US DEA and under cover DEA agents, and was blown away by the things that went on. To the point where I wish the US Navy would cash in a sub and buy 100 new US Coast Guard Cutters. I agree with your thinking after 40 years one would expect more results. Sadly this guy never going to lose an election in Venezuela.
Generalissimo
New Member
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #55
Well I don't think that the Columbian Army was always in very good shape; at the height of the cartels power it was as easy to bribe them as anyone else. Also previous Columbian presidents have not made fighting FARC as large a priority. Plan Columbia and Uribe's more offensive approach have made an impact in the last few years, less territory is under FARCs control, but it is slow going as it is against any insurgency, especially one that has a "safe zone". Besides FARC has some very wily commanders and probably makes quite a bit of money off the drug trade.
The Colombian Army is quite an experienced force. Even more so than their South American counterparts mainly due to their continous operations, not just training. They have made an impact over past few years, enough to drive the FARC across their borders into neighboring countries. Even though countries such as Venezuela have made recent military hardware acquisitions, I do not feel they are at the same higher level of experience as Colombian troops.
Peru and in particular Ecuador both shouldn't be too shabby in that regard either, considering they've been at an almost-state-of-war for a couple... err... decades.
Don't forget the nationalist death squads either, especially for the 70s to 80s.
Concur completely. I have clients (Venezuelans) that are executives in the oil and gas industry in working here Brazil and in Venezuela that have freely spoken about the negative situation in Venezuela. The Chavez government has driven much of the skilled foreign labor out of Venezuela. Even experienced Venezuelan executives whom are not-aligned with Chavez have been fired from their positions.
The educated Venezuelans are appalled what the Chavez government has done to turn their country upside down and put it into the dark ages. This is a planned tactic by the Chavez government to keep the uneducated population (the majority) in check.
PDVSA the national oil company in Venezuala owns CITGO in the USA. Once highly profitable with numerous refineries and a large network of gas stations, CITGO is now run by Chavez cronies. Instead of re-investing CITGO profits, these folks are sending the monies to Venezuela to fuel the Chavez machine. They are also slowly selling off CITGO assets to add to their revenue.
Even his own people would like to see Chavez gone.
contedicavour
New Member
Ecuador needs to watch his back as well, as the last border war with Peru is only less than 10 years ago.
Venezuela's Chavez knows that a full blown war would be a very risky choice, because it could consolidate Venezuelan public opinion behind his lead but it could also use up the remaining budget Chavez uses to subsidize the economy.
I think it's about time a USN carrier group conveniently anchoured off Panama on the Caribbean side, just in case...
cheers
Venezuela's Chavez knows that a full blown war would be a very risky choice, because it could consolidate Venezuelan public opinion behind his lead but it could also use up the remaining budget Chavez uses to subsidize the economy.
I think it's about time a USN carrier group conveniently anchoured off Panama on the Caribbean side, just in case...
cheers
radiosilence
jints
You do realize what that would do to oil prices which is already over $100/barrel.
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