The Arjun Tank

[Waylander]

That's what I meant. It was not that expensive even when one considers the cheaper labout costs in India.

The whole Leopard II program costed roughly 320 million € till the first series rolled out of the factory and that doesn't include the more than 100 million € which were sunk before during the KPz70/MBT70 program.

 

[Aliph Ahmed]

The overall cost of the development program spanning the whole 2-3 decades was ... under 100 million dollars(actually less than 90 million. 100 million due to loss in dollar value in the past one year)!

India has managed to home produce 60% of the system in terms of cost.
The German engine itself cost almost 40% of the cost.
The main imported parts are Engine,transmission,thermal sights and tracks(it was initially produced in-house,however the assembly line was closed since the order was delayed.)

Arjun tank is only 48% indegenious. The rest of the 52% is all imported and foreign made stuff. Even the tracks for Arjun tank are imported.



[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3nudUfQXwY"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3nudUfQXwY[/ame]

 

[eckherl]

India had initially approached the Brits for assistance in armour development.However they refused.
Hence India decided to go alone on the armour front. The idea was similar to the Brit's Chobham armour.So much so the armour is named after the place Kanchannagar(some thing like that),similar to Chobham is the place where brits developed their armour.

Video of Arjun(the only one showing Arjun firing so far)
MBT ARJUN FLASHED BY DD

It was shot by a government run agency,hence picture quality would be bad,plus some weird editing!

Thanks for the looks see with the video, but I find it odd that you would think that there isn`t someone else`s assistance. Still a pretty good achievement though to be able to set up shop and produce the armor in India. Do you know this as fact.

 

[kams]

Thanks for the looks see with the video, but I find it odd that you would think that there isn`t someone else`s assistance. Still a pretty good achievement though to be able to set up shop and produce the armor in India. Do you know this as fact.

eckherl, unfortunately the commentary accompanying the video was in Hindi! Actually the video put the development of Arjun in proper perspective WRT to technology available in the country when the programe was initiated. At the time India was not even making cars indigenously (Blessing of Socialist model of economy).

n21, AFAIK, the tracks will be made by L&T now. DRDO has initiated a new engine development effort (with all of $12 million budget:lul ). Interestingly during Defexpo 08 Natarajan talked about Mk 2 being developed.

 

[eckherl]

eckherl, unfortunately the commentary accompanying the video was in Hindi! Actually the video put the development of Arjun in proper perspective WRT to technology available in the country when the programe was initiated. At the time India was not even making cars indigenously (Blessing of Socialist model of economy).

n21, AFAIK, the tracks will be made by L&T now. DRDO has initiated a new engine development effort (with all of $12 million budget:lul ). Interestingly during Defexpo 08 Natarajan talked about Mk 2 being developed.

@Kams - what is the story behind this, does this project have a chance of being accepted by the Army.

 

[kams]

@Kams - what is the story behind this, does this project have a chance of being accepted by the Army.

Well situation is very fluid. According to the video Arjun will constitute 30% of Indian armour. India will also have approximately 1660 T-90S then there are Combat Improved Ajeya (T-72 upgraded). So will that will Arjun reach that 30% level? We may know in couple of months. Most likely scenario, Mk-2 replacing CIAjeya in 2015 or so.

 

[eckherl]

Well situation is very fluid. According to the video Arjun will constitute 30% of Indian armour. India will also have approximately 1660 T-90S then there are Combat Improved Ajeya (T-72 upgraded). So will that will Arjun reach that 30% level? We may know in couple of months. Most likely scenario, Mk-2 replacing CIAjeya in 2015 or so.

Thank you the information

India is now testing a Arjun turret on a T-72 hull, how is this test going.

 

[kams]

Thank you the information

India is now testing a Arjun turret on a T-72 hull, how is this test going.

AFAIK tests are complete. For the first time Tank Ex was displayed in this years Republic day parade. It was displayed in Defexpo 08 too.

 

[eckherl]

AFAIK tests are complete. For the first time Tank Ex was displayed in this years Republic day parade. It was displayed in Defexpo 08 too.

Was the testing good enough that India may purchase them for the army.

 

[kams]

Was the testing good enough that India may purchase them for the army.

Not going to happen, it was a desparate measure by DRDO to stem the criticism of Arjun's weight.

 

[eckherl]

Not going to happen, it was a desparate measure by DRDO to stem the criticism of Arjun's weight.

Thank you Kams for the information.

 

[n21]

Thanks for the looks see with the video, but I find it odd that you would think that there isn`t someone else`s assistance. Still a pretty good achievement though to be able to set up shop and produce the armor in India. Do you know this as fact.

I haven't seen any reports regarding armour assistance by any external source.
Given that the local media is very critical of Arjun,even a rumour about external help on armour would be splashed indicating how inept DRDO is,that it cant even develop an armour for the tank. The media and IA has never complained about the gun & armour,be it being "not made in India" or "not good enough".

However I wont say authoritatively that no external assistance was sought.My understanding is based on the reports which I have been reading for almost a decade now regarding Arjun. The source could have atmost been Britian,Germans or Russians. If you consider the time when the armour was developed(mid 80's to mid 90's), we can only speculate who would be ready to assist.

 

[n21]

Arjun tank is only 48% indegenious. The rest of the 52% is all imported and foreign made stuff. Even the tracks for Arjun tank are imported.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3nudUfQXwY

Can you list the items which were made in India and the ones imported?
And yeah It would nice if you could "prove your numbers".

Else if you are stating these number because it makes you happy, so be it.

 

[n21]

@Kams - what is the story behind this, does this project have a chance of being accepted by the Army.

It was planned as an upgrade option for the IA's T-72. However it faces the same problem as with Arjun. IA's issues with investing in training and logistics.
But then with the recent reports of Russian shooting their foot by delaying the T-90 TOT, Arjun might slowly find favours and Tank-ex could be considered. Only time will tell.

 

[eckherl]

It was planned as an upgrade option for the IA's T-72. However it faces the same problem as with Arjun. IA's issues with investing in training and logistics.
But then with the recent reports of Russian shooting their foot by delaying the T-90 TOT, Arjun might slowly find favours and Tank-ex could be considered. Only time will tell.

Yes - I can see your point with that, especially inregards to logistical support. Apparently there is a so called rift between Russia and India due in part because of maingun technology transfer for the 125mm, why would this be a issue when DRDO can manufacture a more complex rifled bore maingun, is the wear factor a hurdle that India may be trying to get beyond with smooth bore barrels.

 

[Aliph Ahmed]

Can you list the items which were made in India and the ones imported?
And yeah It would nice if you could "prove your numbers".

Else if you are stating these number because it makes you happy, so be it.

Are you serious ?

The numbers are right in the youtube link I posted in post number 202. Did you even bother to see it ?

:nutkick

Arjun has 52% imported and foreign made components. Even the tracks as of today for the Arjun are not made in India.

Get real.

 

[kams]

:lul

Are you serious ?

The numbers are right in the youtube link I posted in post number 202. Did you even bother to see it ?

:nutkick

Arjun has 52% imported and foreign made components. Even the tracks as of today for the Arjun are not made in India.

Get real.

Could some one give us a break from this troll? Mods, any one?

 

[Aliph Ahmed]

:lul

Could some one give us a break from this troll? Mods, any one?

Hey, I only replied back to n21 who chose not to see the link that was already posted and asked exactly the same thing which was in the link.

What is wrong with what I said ?

Arjun is only 48% made in India as of today. 52% of the parts in Arjun are imported and foreign stuff.

I posted a link too in post number 202.

 

[kams]

Hey, I only replied back to n21 who chose not to see the link that was already posted and asked exactly the same thing which was in the link.

What is wrong with what I said ?

Arjun is only 48% made in India as of today. 52% of the parts in Arjun are imported and foreign stuff.

I posted a link too in post number 202.

Sure and the video posted by n21 said 60% indigenization, whats your point? Do you know what that % refers to? % of Total cost or % of total components? Do you know the cost of 1 MTU engine and cost 1 TI camera? Look them up then reply. (Do the search yourself, don't ask others for 'Proof' as you put it! We have seen the quality of proof you post, like the article on PAF).

 

[kams]

eckherl, I am just trying to come up with some numers, lets see now,

Indian Army has 63 armoured regiments, each regiment comprising of brick of 62 tanks (45 for combat 17 for training, Attrition and replacement etc)

As of today these comprise of,

T90S - 5 regiments (@62 each - 310 total)
T72M1 - 35 Regiments (@ 55 each - 1950 total, lower than required bricks)
T-55 - 10 regiments (@55 each - 550 in total - Modernized)
Vijayantha - 11 regiments (@72 each - 790 in total - modernized)

Reserves - T-55 - 200 Vijayantha - 1000

Now lets look at the modernization plan

T-90S- 310+1000+347 - Total of 1657 - 27 Regiments, T-90S will replace all T-55 and Vijayantha (Modernized) which will move to Reserves.
T-72M1- Now here is the confusion How many will be modernized? A recent report indicates India signed a deal with Bumar of Poland for 1000 tank engines. Lets assume all 1950 will be modernized.

So total - 1657+1950=3607 = 58 Regiments (Assuming full brick of 62 tanks).

That leaves 5 regiments short, 124 Arjuns on order make 2 regiments, so worst case scenario, we should expect order for 3 more regiments of Arjun. That comes to Total of 310 Arjun.

If we assume all T-72s will not be modernized, then we can expect more order for Arjun.

By 2020, even the modernized T-72's will be one their out, so that's where Arjun Mk2 will come in.

I know, lot of assumption, but that is the starting point for a debate.