New details on FREMM AAW variant

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Spacearrow99

Member
Bulgaria will finalize the neogiations for the 4 Gowind 200s before the end of this year. (meretmarine) The total contract would be 900 ME; 225 ME per ship isn't that bad.

The First batch Fremm Schedule:

Name Start Launched Delivery Type

Aquitaine 2007 2009 2011 ASM

Normandy 2008 2009 2011 ASM

Provence 2009 2010 2012 ASM

Brittany 2009 2010 2012 ASM

Auvergne 2010 2011 2013 AVT

Languedoc 2010 2011 2013 AVT

Alsace 2011 2012 2014 ASM

Lorraine 2011 2012 2014 ASM

The next two vessels could be AVTs or Fredas; they would be delivered in 2017. The good thing about the first batch schedule, is that the program want end before the next French presidential election.
 
S

Spacearrow99

Member
Probable Future French CBG:

CDG or PA2, 1 Forbin, 2 ASW Fremm, 1 SSN (Rubis), 1 AOR (BCR)

The CDG is armed with 32 Aster 15, and 2 Sadral launchers for self defense. The PA2 will probably be armed with 16 V L Mica and 2 Sadral launchers.


Probable Future French AG:

1 Mistral, 1 Foudre, 1 Freda, 1 LA Fremm, 1 ASM Fremm 1 AOR (BCR)


Both Fremm versions will have hull sonar and MU 90 light torpedoes. The ASW version will also contain a towed sonar. The ASW version will carry 16, A43 vls and 16, A70 vls. The 16, A43 vls on the LA can be removed, and 16, more A70 vls can be added.

Three George Legyues class frigates: the Dupleix, Montcalm, and Jean de Vienna are each equipped with 2 Sadrals launchers. The MN may replace one of the frigates Sadrals with simbads. The Sadrals would be placed on the Horizons; the simbads form the Orage, would replace Sadrals on the stripped George Legyues frigate. The other Sadrals should be put on the Mistrals.

Three or four ASM frigates are ported at Brest; inorder, to protect the 4 SSBNs ported there. The MN wouldn't be able to protect the 4 SSBNs with just 8 Fremms. The majority of the Fremms will get built; If they don't the La Fayettes will also get ASW systems during their midlife upgrade. The Gowinds are two small and short ranged for the MN leaders' tastes.

French Army generals fear that their procurement projects will be cut, They believe the procurement dollars will go to French Air force and Navy. (lefigaro)

I don't have any information about Barracuda procurement timetables. Morin explains some of his procurement thinking in the piece below.


http://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/13...8/c0708001.asp
 
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contedicavour

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Good idea to post Parliamentary Defence committee debriefings.
Morin has been however extremely cautious though : on one side he refutes rumours on cuts, on the other hand he specifies the review of programmes will be finalized only early 2008 and that until then nothing is definitive :rolleyes:

cheers
 
S

Spacearrow99

Member
Morin is taking a balanced approach to the review of programmes. Morin refuted rumours that the whole second batch of Fremms will be cut; he said that certain programs will undergo cuts, others will be launched according to the operational needs.
 
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contedicavour

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Spacearrow99 said:
Morin is taking a balanced approach to the review of programmes. Morin refuted rumours that the whole second batch of Fremms will be cut; he said that certain programs will undergo cuts, others will be launched according to the operational needs.
Click to expand...
Yes but that remains a very confusing sentence by Morin... nobody really believed the FREMMs would be cut down to 8 ships. Well informed rumours talked about 13 FREMMs instead of 17 (or 19 if you add the 2 AAW versions), ie the 2nd batch will anyway exist, but be cut.

cheers
 
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Spacearrow99

Member
The production of Barracudas and Fremms is vital for DCNS in 2020s. DCNS would've to potentially cut over 10,000 jobs, if the second batch of the Fremms were cut. So, the second batch of the Fremm will be built, but it may or may not be cut. I think the cancellation clause is 10% of each unit cut. I said, several months ago that the MN would fight for their Fremms.

They are huge upgrade over the current ASM frigates. The effective range of the Herkales against certain types of targets (supersonic CMs, etc...) is unknown. The Freda will have 32 or 40 vls; it will probably be identical to the Fremm LA. I hope that some of the AVTs get cancelled, and more Fredas are built.
 
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Spacearrow99

Member
There're reports that Morroco has ordered a Fremm? Sarkozy is making a three day visit to Morroco, starting on October 22. The proposed deal may or may not be confirmed during the state visit. The article says that the Greeks may order up to ten AAW Fremms; the Germans own the Greek shipyards, so Greeks may order 3 or 4 frigates. Saudi Arabia is also a potential future customer. (meretmarine)

http://www.meretmarine.com/article.cfm?id=105815

Fremm

ASM
~ Towed sonar.
~ Helicopter ASM
~ 19 MU 90 Light torpedoes

The ASM want have the systems to fire Scalp Naval. These frigates will be in CBGs, protecting SSBNs, and AGs; two of their major missions don't require Scalp Naval. The ASMs will be with the LA Fremms in AGs, so Scalp Naval fire systems aren' t needed.


AVT
~ Transport helicopters.
~ Housing for commandos
~ Vessel for commandos
~ Launching systems for Scalp Naval
 
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contedicavour

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Indeed a very interesting development.
Morocco had to make up for the refusal to order Rafales, and the order for TGV trains and the MOU (memorandum of understanding) over a FREMM FFG constitute the answer.
It will still take time to transform the MoU into a firm order though. Morocco's current navy has a Descubierta lightly armed corvette (it hardly ever embarks the Exocets and the Aspide launcher hasn't been used in a while), a Floreal large OPV, a big ex USN LST and a dozen FACs. A FREMM would represent a huge step forward, but would it make sense ?

cheers
 
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contedicavour

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Oh I was forgetting : yesterday's edition of La Tribune newspaper states that the FREMM for Morocco could be taken out of the 8 FREMMs of France's 1st batch.

cheers
 
K

kato

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
contedicavour said:
Morocco's current navy has a Descubierta lightly armed corvette (it hardly ever embarks the Exocets and the Aspide launcher hasn't been used in a while), a Floreal large OPV, a big ex USN LST and a dozen FACs.
Click to expand...
Large Stuff:
- 1 Descubierta (1,480 tons, nc Exocet, Aspide, 76mm, 2x 40mm); late 70s
- 2 Floreal (2,950 tons, 2 Exocet, 76mm, Panther helo); early 00s

FACs:
- 4 Lazaga (425 tons, 4 Exocet, 76mm, 40mm); mid 70s
- 2 PR72 (445 tons, ffbnw Exocet, 76mm, 40mm); mid 70s

Used in Fisheries Protection:
- 4 Osprey MkII (475 tons, 40mm); mid 80s
- 6 Cormoran (425 tons, 40mm); mid 80s
- 5 OPV64 (580 tons, 2x40mm); mid 90s

Amphibious Forces:
- 1 Newport LST, 60s?
- 3 BATRAL LSM, early 80s

Imo, if Morocco actually gets a FREMM, it would be a rather downgraded (cheaper) system in comparison to what France and Italy get. And, yes, it wouldn't make much sense. :confused:
 
harryriedl

harryriedl

Active Member
Verified Defense Pro
kato said:
Large Stuff:
- 1 Descubierta (1,480 tons, nc Exocet, Aspide, 76mm, 2x 40mm); late 70s
- 2 Floreal (2,950 tons, 2 Exocet, 76mm, Panther helo); early 00s

FACs:
- 4 Lazaga (425 tons, 4 Exocet, 76mm, 40mm); mid 70s
- 2 PR72 (445 tons, ffbnw Exocet, 76mm, 40mm); mid 70s

Used in Fisheries Protection:
- 4 Osprey MkII (475 tons, 40mm); mid 80s
- 6 Cormoran (425 tons, 40mm); mid 80s
- 5 OPV64 (580 tons, 2x40mm); mid 90s

Amphibious Forces:
- 1 Newport LST, 60s?
- 3 BATRAL LSM, early 80s

Imo, if Morocco actually gets a FREMM, it would be a rather downgraded (cheaper) system in comparison to what France and Italy get. And, yes, it wouldn't make much sense. :confused:
Click to expand...
so am i:confused: it would seem to me that Morocco would be more of a Godwind or a Laffayet customer rather than a FREMM customer
 
C

contedicavour

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harryriedl said:
so am i:confused: it would seem to me that Morocco would be more of a Godwind or a Laffayet customer rather than a FREMM customer
Click to expand...
Absolutely, a Gowind corvette would make more sense. Or even second hand Lafayette if the French Navy needs money to finance as many FREMM as possible in the coming years.

cheers
 
K

kato

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
I'd think they'd actually be a likely candidates for second-hand D'Estienne d'Orves avisos from France. Knock-down the armament a bit, and the basic hulls would be good for another 10-15 years.

Say two pairs, decommissioning the Descubierta, and moving the Lazagas to a light FPB role.

Hand 'em over on a cheap deal for like say €40-50 million each including a refurbishment, and it would be a good deal for both sides - for Morocco as well, as these Avisos are apparently both extremely economical and, despite their small size, capable of high-endurance overseas missions as well. Would be something that made sense, anyway.
 
E

European

New Member
The flagship of Morocco is a spanish build corvette and they want to replace it with a destroyer? So, why Morocco bought a multipurpose fregate as Fremm?
:confused:
 
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