India's MBT: Arjun and its standing among Tanks

[funtz]

124 us the initial order, there was a lot of coverage of this on a program on DD news called WAR and Peace, as the production lines are open, the order has to be followed up till the army gives a good reason, MoD will keep on pestering them, develeping a logistics network for arjun and a training platform etc. etc. will not be justified for 124 tanks,

from the india defense site article: reports-3006
associated equipment includes

* A bridge layer based on the Arjun chassis has also been displayed by the DRDO. Developed in cooperation with Indian industry, this bridge layer is deemed superior to the T-72 based units, as it can handle a larger load and uses a "scissors type" bridgelaying method, which does not raise the bridge high up into the air, and hence make it visible from afar.

* Armoured engineering vehicles based on the Arjun are also assumed to be in development, as the Arjun induction will require units of a similar power to weight ratio or powerful enough to tow it, or recover it on the battlefield.

add new new rail cars, trucks etc. to the list.

Again the DRDO has changed a lot over the last 5 years, i think they will start to work with the army over the next project and completely replace the tanks and associated equipment in the next generation.

 

[kay_man]

124 us the initial order, there was a lot of coverage of this on a program on DD news called WAR and Peace, as the production lines are open, the order has to be followed up till the army gives a good reason, MoD will keep on pestering them, develeping a logistics network for arjun and a training platform etc. etc. will not be justified for 124 tanks,

from the india defense site article: reports-3006
associated equipment includes

add new new rail cars, trucks etc. to the list.

Again the DRDO has changed a lot over the last 5 years, i think they will start to work with the army over the next project and completely replace the tanks and associated equipment in the next generation.

as much as i hate to inform u..there are only 124 tanks on order still and not 300
i,ve done some research

however u might wanna chech the new vids about arjun on u-tube

they ,re 9 mbs each...and they are freakin awsome !!!!!
the hav taken inside factory
inside the tank turret......the digital toch screen computer is awsome
and on the test track also

 

[funtz]

124 tanks are on order ya, by the time they are into active service i'm sure the MoD will throw its weight around for a cap of 300, they have said a lot of times that Indigenous development is more important for them.

Yes i have seen the vids they are nice.

 

[kay_man]

124 tanks are on order ya, by the time they are into active service i'm sure the MoD will throw its weight around for a cap of 300, they have said a lot of times that Indigenous development is more important for them.

Yes i have seen the vids they are nice.

i dont think there will be any more aditions of arjuns in the army atleast till a new version of this tank(mk2)comes out

and since the comparative trials of the arjun vs t-90 were cancelled there is no chance tht any new additions will be made

the army is very proud tht we hav oour own mbt now and tht is a world class tank...however they are unhappy about the tanks being forced onto them by the mod

however wht u said is true tht logistics are being developed and side projects are being developed on the arjun chasis......tht however maybe for preparation of future and not for current use

ANY WAY I HAD A QUERRY.....DOES THE NEW FCS ON THE COMBAT IMPROVED AJEYA OFFER FIRE ON THE MOVE CAPABILITY ??????

 

[eckherl]

i dont think there will be any more aditions of arjuns in the army atleast till a new version of this tank(mk2)comes out

and since the comparative trials of the arjun vs t-90 were cancelled there is no chance tht any new additions will be made

the army is very proud tht we hav oour own mbt now and tht is a world class tank...however they are unhappy about the tanks being forced onto them by the mod

however wht u said is true tht logistics are being developed and side projects are being developed on the arjun chasis......tht however maybe for preparation of future and not for current use

ANY WAY I HAD A QUERRY.....DOES THE NEW FCS ON THE COMBAT IMPROVED AJEYA OFFER FIRE ON THE MOVE CAPABILITY ??????

YES IT DOES OFFER FIRE ON THE MOVE CAPABILITY.

 

[funtz]

There is an article on upgrade and other issues with a huge list of reference.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/T-72Rhino.html

A new fire control system: the Drawa-T from PCO-Cenzin of Poland. The Drawa-T is present on the Polish PT-91 tanks, their much improved variant of the T-72, and a muzzle reference system.

A thermal imager integrated with the Drawa-T fire control system, supplied by Israel's El-Op.

New radios: DRDO's and BEL's (Bharat Electronics Ltd) state-of-the-art frequency hopping combat net radio, to be manufactured by BEL.

A fibre optic gyro-based navigation system: BEL's advanced land navigation system.

Laser Warning System: Designed by DRDO, BEL and Indian Industry, to be manufactured by BEL.

About Drawa-T
http://www.pcosa.com.pl/foldery/eng/TFCS.pdf

The fire on the move feature is a more dual axis stabilization thing (apparently)
Here is a link on the general T 72.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/t72/

The gun fires separate loading Armour-Piercing Discarding Sabot rounds (APDS), High Explosive Anti-Tank (HEAT) rounds and High Explosive Fragmentation (HE-FRAG) projectiles. Fire accuracy is attained by a laser rangefinder sight, ballistic computer and a thermal barrel sleeve. Dual-axis stabilisation ensures effective firing on the move.

another link about the T 72 tank (w/o upgrade)
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/t72tank.htm

Fire on Move: Yes, up to 25 km/h. Depending on the road and distance to the target, most crews may halt before firing.

 

[kay_man]

There is an article on upgrade and other issues with a huge list of reference.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/T-72Rhino.html



About Drawa-T
http://www.pcosa.com.pl/foldery/eng/TFCS.pdf

The fire on the move feature is a more dual axis stabilization thing (apparently)
Here is a link on the general T 72.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/t72/

another link about the T 72 tank (w/o upgrade)
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/t72tank.htm

wow ths great news

with the c.i , ajeya and the t-90 s , the army may as well achieve its arsenal of modernization
we wont even hav to pitch the arjun against the al-k crappy tank...the c.i.ajeya may as well do the job, and the t-90 will crush the t-80


GOOD NEWS,
I HAV VISITED SOME OTHER DEF.FORUMS AND HEARD SOME COMMMENTS ON THE RECENT DEVELOPMENTS ON THE ARJUN.....BY A GUY CALLED DENIL

HE SAYS, EVEN IN THE EARLIER VIDS THE ARJUN WAS STRIPPED OF MANY OF ITS COMPONENTS IN ORDER TO PRESENT TO THE PRESS WITHOUT DISCLOSING ITS FEATURES

DENIL SAYS THAT AFTER THE ISRAELI HELP, THE FULLY LOADED ARJUN LOOKS SO DIFFERENT AND FEARSOME THT WE WONT EVEN RECOGNISE IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:nutkick

 

[eckherl]

wow ths great news

with the c.i , ajeya and the t-90 s , the army may as well achieve its arsenal of modernization
we wont even hav to pitch the arjun against the al-k crappy tank...the c.i.ajeya may as well do the job, and the t-90 will crush the t-80


GOOD NEWS,
I HAV VISITED SOME OTHER DEF.FORUMS AND HEARD SOME COMMMENTS ON THE RECENT DEVELOPMENTS ON THE ARJUN.....BY A GUY CALLED DENIL

HE SAYS, EVEN IN THE EARLIER VIDS THE ARJUN WAS STRIPPED OF MANY OF ITS COMPONENTS IN ORDER TO PRESENT TO THE PRESS WITHOUT DISCLOSING ITS FEATURES

DENIL SAYS THAT AFTER THE ISRAELI HELP, THE FULLY LOADED ARJUN LOOKS SO DIFFERENT AND FEARSOME THT WE WONT EVEN RECOGNISE IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:nutkick

I just have to ask:

Why do you deem the Al Khalid a crappy tank and what makes you think that the T-90S and Ajeya will crush Pakistans T-80s. Can you tell my why they hold such a overwhelming advantage.

 

[Grand Danois]

Kay_man,

Please be cool & calm and avoid calling other natons kit names. You can easily discuss without doing that.

Also, use proper spelling and punctuation, avoid the use of caps as it is considered rude and gives the impression you're shouting.

See # 18 of the DT rules.

http://defencetalk.com/forums/rules.php

/GD

wow ths great news

with the c.i , ajeya and the t-90 s , the army may as well achieve its arsenal of modernization
we wont even hav to pitch the arjun against the al-k crappy tank...the c.i.ajeya may as well do the job, and the t-90 will crush the t-80


GOOD NEWS,
I HAV VISITED SOME OTHER DEF.FORUMS AND HEARD SOME COMMMENTS ON THE RECENT DEVELOPMENTS ON THE ARJUN.....BY A GUY CALLED DENIL

HE SAYS, EVEN IN THE EARLIER VIDS THE ARJUN WAS STRIPPED OF MANY OF ITS COMPONENTS IN ORDER TO PRESENT TO THE PRESS WITHOUT DISCLOSING ITS FEATURES

DENIL SAYS THAT AFTER THE ISRAELI HELP, THE FULLY LOADED ARJUN LOOKS SO DIFFERENT AND FEARSOME THT WE WONT EVEN RECOGNISE IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:nutkick

 

[kay_man]

Kay_man,

Please be cool & calm and avoid calling other natons kit names. You can easily discuss without doing that.

Also, use proper spelling and punctuation, avoid the use of caps as it is considered rude and gives the impression you're shouting.

See # 18 of the DT rules.

http://defencetalk.com/forums/rules.php

/GD

ooops sorry,
ill mind the c**** word.......just got carried away

 

[kay_man]

wrong word...c***y

I just have to ask:

Why do you deem the Al Khalid a crappy tank and what makes you think that the T-90S and Ajeya will crush Pakistans T-80s. Can you tell my why they hold such a overwhelming advantage.

im not saying its bad...its a good tank at an estimated price of 2.2 million a piece as compared to a t-90 which is 3.3 per piece

but it does not hav anithing new compared to standard t-72 m1
125 mm gun.....with almost same ammo, pak is developing du rounds but we will discuss tht when they hav finished developing it

the chasis is almost same as a t-72 m1

it has a redesigned turret which is derived basically from t-72 ( actually derived frm type -90 of china which is derived directly from t-72 m1)

the only thing it has is new fcs and bigger engine

AND YET THE WEIGHT IS ALMOST SAME AS T-72 M1......THEY HAV GOT NO ARMOUR!!!!!!!!!!!!

on vikipedia it says it has composite armour
but
on most pak def sites the armour is not discussed.....its written SECRET.....lolz

also thought it can fire atgm though gun being smoothbore gun it does not hav any


THE C.I.AJEYA ON OTHER HAND HAS OVERCOME ITS ARMOUR AND POWER DEMERITS

IT HAS ERA PACKAGE ON IT WITH 1000 HP ENGINE (the t-72 m1 has 840 hp enging)

THE TYPE64, ETC THT CHINA WAS OPERATING WERE FOUND TO BE OBSOLETE ON THE ARRIVAL OF THE RUSSIAN T-72 , SO CHINA STARTED A NEW PROGRAM WHERE THEY ANALYSED T-72 FROM IRAQ
THEY CAME UP WITH THE TYPE 85 THEN THE TYPE 90

THE TYPE 98 / AL-KHALED IS A DERIVATIVE OF THT.....NOT A NEW DESIGN

IT HAS A BIGGER TURRET BUT BCOZ OF THIS THERE IS A GAP IN THE FRONT WHICH MAKES IT VULNERABLE

AL KHALID HAS LOST ADVANTAGE EVEN OVER AN UPGRADED T-72......WONT U AGREEEnfloorl:

 

[kay_man]

And Oh I Forgot To Mention

The C.i.ajeya Has New Fcs , The Same Tht Is Used On The Polish Pt-91
So It Can Fire On The Move

 

[Grand Danois]

kay_man,

For your benefit:

Rule 18. Proper punctuation is a must. Do not add excessive dots as a replacement for a comma. this....isn't really....fun..to read. also watch the spelling. [Its hrd 2 reed whn peple tipe poorly, its also trashy! This will make posts much nicer, neat and easy to read for fellow participants. This isn't done on most forums, its time you get use to it here.

http://defencetalk.com/forums/rules.php

And please don't use caps.

1st warning.

/GD

 

[funtz]

I'm not saying its bad, its a good tank at an estimated price of 2.2 million a piece as compared to a t-90 which is 3.3 per piece.

But it does not hav anything new compared to standard t-72 m1 125 mm gun, with almost same ammo, Pakistan is developing D-U rounds but we will discuss that when they have finished developing them.

The chassis is almost same as a t-72 m1.

It has a redesigned turret which is derived basically from t-72 ( actually derived from type -90 of china which is derived directly from t-72 m1).

The only thing it has is new fcs and bigger engine.

And yet the weight is almost same as t-72 m1, they have got no amour!!

On Wikipedia it says it has composite amour, but on most Pakistan def sites the amour is not discussed, its written Secret, lol.

Also, thought it can fire ATGM though gun being smooth-bore, gun it does not have any ATGM rounds yet.


The C.I Ajeya on other hand has overcome its armor and power demerits, It has ERA package on it with 1000 hp engine (the t-72 m1 has 840 hp engine).

The type64, etc that china was operating were found to be obsolete on the arrival of the Russian t-72, so china started a new program where they analysed t-72 from Iraq, They came up with the type 85 then the type 90.

The type 98 / Al-Khaled is a derivative of that, not a new design.

It has a bigger turret but because of this there is a gap in the front which makes it vulnerable

Al Khalid has lost advantage even over an upgraded t-72, wont you agree nfloorl:

Kindly see above i have edited your post to give you an idea of what Mr. Grand D is talking about.

I too did all of these things quite a lot, people here get head ache if they see the stuff you quoted, in the way you quoted, and as we are discussing something with them which we also care about, it is only fare that we actually listen to them and play by common rules.

Again if you wish to discuss the Al-Khalid it will be a better Idea to open a Al-Khalid thread or find one like it.

Given that we (Indians and Pakistanis) have tried endlessly, to get the game of dissing each other, registered as a Olympic event, our request has not been recognized yet so it will be better if we just stop doing that here.

 

[eckherl]

im not saying its bad...its a good tank at an estimated price of 2.2 million a piece as compared to a t-90 which is 3.3 per piece

but it does not hav anithing new compared to standard t-72 m1
125 mm gun.....with almost same ammo, pak is developing du rounds but we will discuss tht when they hav finished developing it

the chasis is almost same as a t-72 m1

it has a redesigned turret which is derived basically from t-72 ( actually derived frm type -90 of china which is derived directly from t-72 m1)

the only thing it has is new fcs and bigger engine

AND YET THE WEIGHT IS ALMOST SAME AS T-72 M1......THEY HAV GOT NO ARMOUR!!!!!!!!!!!!

on vikipedia it says it has composite armour
but
on most pak def sites the armour is not discussed.....its written SECRET.....lolz

also thought it can fire atgm though gun being smoothbore gun it does not hav any


THE C.I.AJEYA ON OTHER HAND HAS OVERCOME ITS ARMOUR AND POWER DEMERITS

IT HAS ERA PACKAGE ON IT WITH 1000 HP ENGINE (the t-72 m1 has 840 hp enging)

THE TYPE64, ETC THT CHINA WAS OPERATING WERE FOUND TO BE OBSOLETE ON THE ARRIVAL OF THE RUSSIAN T-72 , SO CHINA STARTED A NEW PROGRAM WHERE THEY ANALYSED T-72 FROM IRAQ
THEY CAME UP WITH THE TYPE 85 THEN THE TYPE 90

THE TYPE 98 / AL-KHALED IS A DERIVATIVE OF THT.....NOT A NEW DESIGN

IT HAS A BIGGER TURRET BUT BCOZ OF THIS THERE IS A GAP IN THE FRONT WHICH MAKES IT VULNERABLE

AL KHALID HAS LOST ADVANTAGE EVEN OVER AN UPGRADED T-72......WONT U AGREEEnfloorl:

You pulled all that info from Wiki and you are still stating that the Al Khalid is compared to a Russian T-72M1, yes it is true that the hull is a modified enlarged T-72 hull but the turret is not the same. T-72M1 turret is cast, Al-Khalid is a all welded design, and yes it does have composite armor matched with ERA tiles. I would give the Al - Khalid a even match to the T-90S, could be even better with the hull configuration, I will leave you guessing why on that one.

 

[funtz]

Ahem Ahem.
India's MBT: Arjun and its standing among Tanks in Land Forces / Army.

 

[eckherl]

And Oh I Forgot To Mention

The C.i.ajeya Has New Fcs , The Same Tht Is Used On The Polish Pt-91
So It Can Fire On The Move

Ahh yes - I remember telling you that it could fire on the move, what else can the FCS on the Twardy do that is so cool, is it better than that found on the Al - khalid or even the T-90S.:unknown

OOPS - this is a thread on the Arjun so we better throw this one in there also Kay_man, give me the skimmy on Arjuns armor protection and FCS also.

 

[funtz]

Here is the deal before stuff goes forward, the compotision and the preformance of arjuns armor are considered and covered under a law which covers documents that can threaten national security if exposed, so untill something hits the tank, how do you plan to comment on the armor.

 

[eckherl]

Here is the deal before stuff goes forward, the compotision and the preformance of arjuns armor are considered and covered under a law which covers documents that can threaten national security if exposed, so untill something hits the tank, how do you plan to comment on the armor.

Is this comment for me, and if so how would you like me to answer it.

 

[Chrom]

Here is the deal before stuff goes forward, the compotision and the preformance of arjuns armor are considered and covered under a law which covers documents that can threaten national security if exposed, so untill something hits the tank, how do you plan to comment on the armor.

Luckly, i dont live in India. Also not in USA or Russia either. Ergo, i can comment all i want about most interesting tanks...