The Indian Tejas
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sidewinder2006
New Member
ooopppsss....as far as i know..marut was retired from the service in 1969..
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By the way.. LCA was tested with a single drop tank just a few days ago.But during a trip ti bangalore 3-4 days back I saw a tejas in grey camo taxying with two drop tanks.
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By the way.. LCA was tested with a single drop tank just a few days ago.But during a trip ti bangalore 3-4 days back I saw a tejas in grey camo taxying with two drop tanks.
Gripenator
Banned Member
You mention two drop tanks? That would imply a high combat weight loading for the LCA. I would be interested in knowing what the IAF role for the Tejas is
Although the official designation of the LCA seems to be light multirole fighter, what combat roles does the IAF plan to use the Tejas for?
It seems with drop tanks it might be strike/inderdiction missions similar to the role filled by the Mig-21. But then again, the Mig-21 was truly multirole!
I only want informed opinions on this question-no one line or one word answers please.
Well all I have to go by are the figures that are available.
Mig 21 did the job it was supposed to, in the time frame it was supposed to and the poor old bird has not been able to retire with dignity.
The immediate role of LCA will be to replace the massive numbers of MIG 21 (Various versions) in the IAF, fill in the numbers till 2040.
As the fire control system will be prepared with Israel’s IAI, it is safe to assume that weapon fit will be a mixture of derby, Python and R-77RVV-AE with a helmet mounted cueing system, enabling it to perform an air interdiction/interception role.
Possible installation of Israeli electronic and targeting pods, shows that air to surface capability will also be there, although a decent (I think 4000Kg) combat suggests a dedicated surface to ground mission will be a waste of the aircraft age, that is in operations like Kargil.
I think it will just fill in the numbers and used with the two more capable aircraft types, that is the reason immediate cooperation has been sought and implemented in getting the engine and radar ready, the engine will take time even with external help and till then the GE F 404 will fill in the role.
The radar however is more likely to be a minor modification of EL/M 2032 fire control radar, optimized for a more effective use in BVR combat, the co-development will primarily be payment to elta for a form of license with no cap on units.
It will be and infielder in cricket, a defender in football. With the installation of enough capabilities to change into other roles when push comes to shove (although moderately, that is why large numbers are required).
I never knew any war fought in 1972, maybe in your dream and participating marut when it was all its life looking for a decent engine...... very fertiule imagination I say.
nfloorl:Gripenator
Banned Member
The Indo-Pakistani War of 1971 ended officially on December 16, yet covert skirmishes carried on until 2 Jan 1972 especially in the Kashmir disputed region around the LOC when no more incidents were recorded by Norwegian monitors.I never knew any war fought in 1972, maybe in your dream and participating marut when it was all its life looking for a decent engine...... very fertiule imagination I say.
So unless you have any worthwhile contributions to add to this topic, don't post any more flaming posts.
sidewinder2006
New Member
Well I ws pretty surprised to see two drop tanks with Tejas...Very very surprised ! Two drop tanks will provide a tejas enough endurance to strike enemy air bases pretty deep into enemy territory as well as to do Longer Combat air patrol duties !!! And since India will be acquiring a large number of LCA this will provide quite a depth to the force structure !
i don't think it will have that big of an impact, aerial refueling will accomplish the same thing, the drop tanks will help however not that extent, not alone at least.
Tejas is not going to go for deep strike missions into territories.
I had a talk with a friend of mine working in HAL, he was more optimistic about the prospect of tejas, the cost of the "light" aircraft if maintained below 20 million coupled with local production will translate into a cheaper aircraft per hour of flight time, which will make it suitable for the role of a workhorse providing air support to the army in operations and situations like Kargil especially with the proposed installation of Israeli targeting pods and countermeasures (i think the Israeli stuff has proved its effectiveness time and again).
However i believe that a heavy aircraft like the SU 30(numbers estimated to be 200-250 by 2014), with a bigger load can be more effective in dealing with such situations, or even the MMRCA which will press into service with Tejas, are better suited for these jobs.
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sidewinder2006
New Member
Yups...LCA is not designed to be a strike aircraft ! But it has pretty good portfolio....at least I wont hesitate to send an aircraft with 5k payload,ability to fire PGMs in an strike mission provided it can show me a decent operating radius..
and one additional drop tank just might increase the range of it to that extent where we can consider it (at least for specific missions..for say...to bomb a millitant training outfit in Pok) for striking roles..
Just a thought !
Well in the famous words of Indira Ji to the Indian navy "if its a war, its a war", yes Tejas will be used if need be, that is why it’s a combat aircraft.
That is the reason for spending all the money on Israeli - lightning pod, that very famous EL/M 2032 radar, electronic warfare equipment, missiles and foreign cooperation on the Kaveri engine.
In the area it will have to operate in possible hostile sky (not flying against F22-35) - It can hold its own when mixed with other aircrafts like the SU 30(modified for India) and whatever the MoD chooses as the 126 MRCA aircrafts. Again I think a combination of these aircrafts in a possible combat will be more effective, especially with the potentially neighbors we have (Pakistan-China) neighborhood its not like a F35 or F22 class plane is going to be around any time soon.If you see the avionics, sensors on it, it's really a very smart little bird.
Further more something from the one man who actually knows what he is talking about: Vice Admiral (retd) Raman Puri.
So for those having doubts over the status of Tejas, do not worry seems like some in the IAF know a thing or two about combat aircrafts and the need for domestic production.
This is the solution for HAL Tejas by GE, new engine modified by GE for the production variants of HAL Tejas, modified for Indian conditions (perhaps you will see why India went for a western engine):
F404-GE-IN20 turbofan engine
Applications: Indian Tejas Light Combat Aircraft
Performance Specifications (sea level/standard day)
FE404-GE-IN20 engine is an enhanced production version the F404-GE-F2J3, which powered the LCA demonstrator.
The highest thrust variant of the F404 family, the -IN20 incorporates GE's latest hot section materials and technologies as well as a Full Authority digital Electronic Control(FADEC) with proven single engine features for maximum sa fety and relaibility.
It provides the Tejas LCA with reliable power outstanding operational and handling characteristics. Its simple, modular sesign is reliable and easy to maintain.
The IN 20 is a derivative of highly successful F404 turbofan, with over 11 million flight hours experience on the Boeing F/A-18 and other combat aircraft.
Source: GE.
dum dum dum.
Another joint venture to run.
Will they go Russian?
or will french have some fun?
amour pour la France
source: http://www.hindu.com/2007/10/15/stories/2007101570041100.htm
Hey they are putting weapons on the bird, finally great.
This seems like the final touches before the first few come into the IAF, great and by 2012 the new radar(via Israel), and the new engine (via France or Russia), will be on this lil bird.
the official link to the test fire.
http://www.ada.gov.in/r73-testfire.mpg
this is the famous mirage 2000 and the infamous HAL Tejas.
Source: Internet.
View attachment 1991
That is the reason for spending all the money on Israeli - lightning pod, that very famous EL/M 2032 radar, electronic warfare equipment, missiles and foreign cooperation on the Kaveri engine.
In the area it will have to operate in possible hostile sky (not flying against F22-35) - It can hold its own when mixed with other aircrafts like the SU 30(modified for India) and whatever the MoD chooses as the 126 MRCA aircrafts. Again I think a combination of these aircrafts in a possible combat will be more effective, especially with the potentially neighbors we have (Pakistan-China) neighborhood its not like a F35 or F22 class plane is going to be around any time soon.If you see the avionics, sensors on it, it's really a very smart little bird.
Further more something from the one man who actually knows what he is talking about: Vice Admiral (retd) Raman Puri.
Source: http://www.idrw.org/2007/09/27/lca_is_indias_numero_uno_project.html
So for those having doubts over the status of Tejas, do not worry seems like some in the IAF know a thing or two about combat aircrafts and the need for domestic production.
This is the solution for HAL Tejas by GE, new engine modified by GE for the production variants of HAL Tejas, modified for Indian conditions (perhaps you will see why India went for a western engine):
F404-GE-IN20 turbofan engine
Applications: Indian Tejas Light Combat Aircraft
Performance Specifications (sea level/standard day)
- Thrust Class: 19000 lb, 84 kN
- Length: 159 in, 404 cm
- Airflow: 153 lb/sec,70 kg/sec
- Weight: 2365 lb, 1072 kg
- Inlet Dimension: 28 in, 71 cm
- Pressure ratio: 28:1, 28:1
FE404-GE-IN20 engine is an enhanced production version the F404-GE-F2J3, which powered the LCA demonstrator.
The highest thrust variant of the F404 family, the -IN20 incorporates GE's latest hot section materials and technologies as well as a Full Authority digital Electronic Control(FADEC) with proven single engine features for maximum sa fety and relaibility.
It provides the Tejas LCA with reliable power outstanding operational and handling characteristics. Its simple, modular sesign is reliable and easy to maintain.
The IN 20 is a derivative of highly successful F404 turbofan, with over 11 million flight hours experience on the Boeing F/A-18 and other combat aircraft.
Source: GE.
dum dum dum.
Another joint venture to run.
Will they go Russian?
or will french have some fun?
любовь к России
amour pour la France
source: http://www.hindu.com/2007/10/15/stories/2007101570041100.htm
Hey they are putting weapons on the bird, finally great.
http://frontierindia.net/tejas-fires-its-first-missile/
This seems like the final touches before the first few come into the IAF, great and by 2012 the new radar(via Israel), and the new engine (via France or Russia), will be on this lil bird.
the official link to the test fire.
http://www.ada.gov.in/r73-testfire.mpg
this is the famous mirage 2000 and the infamous HAL Tejas.
Source: Internet.
View attachment 1991
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niteshkjain
New Member
Weaponization of Tejas Started
sorry guys I cant give the source, as my toal posts are less than 15
HAL Begins Weaponization Of LCA Tejas; Fires RD 73 Air-to-Air Missile
India's indigenously developed Tejas light combat aircraft (LCA) Thursday achieved its 'most significant milestone yet' with a 'copy-book' test firing of a close combat missile to mark the beginning of the jet's weaponisation programme.
'The historic event marks the beginning of weaponisation, which is the focus of the current initial operational clearance (IOC) phase of the (Tejas) programme,' a defence ministry statement said. 'The test was conducted from a mobile telemetry vehicle where all the aircraft, systems and weapon data were closely monitored.
'Quick analysis of the data revealed that it was a 'text book' launch where the systems' performance matched the predictions well,' the statement said. The test firing of the R-73 missile was conducted at an altitude of 7 km at an air-to-air range off the Goa coast, with the aircraft flying at a speed of Mach 0.6.
'Air-to-air missile integration and testing, especially on a fly-by-wire aircraft is a very complex task involving interfaces with aerodynamics, engine air intake, control laws, flight control systems, avionics systems, and electrical and other general systems of an aircraft,' the statement said. The test firing was meant to validate five parameters:
* Safe separation of the missile from the parent aircraft,
* Effect of the missile plume on the aircraft's engine air-intake,
* Functionality of the aircraft's store management system (SMS), including its safety interlocks,
* Effect of the missile plume on the aircraft's composites structures, and
* Assessment of the aircraft's handling qualities during the missile launch.
The test firing was conducted from a Tejas prototype vehicle PV-1 flown by Gp. Capt. N. Harish, chief test pilot of the National Flight Test Centre of the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) that has designed the aircraft. A photo-chase Sea Harrier aircraft flown by the Indian Navy's Capt. Yatish Saxena and Cdr. Dalip Singh monitored the test from the air.
'The (test) has proven the capability of the composite team comprising designers, and production, certification, flight test and user (Indian Air Force) agencies to integrate and flight test an advanced missile on the Tejas,' the statement said. The Indian Navy's INS Hansa station in Goa 'provided all support for this important flight trial,' the statement added.
D. Banerjee, chief controller (R&D) at the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO); P.S. Subramaniam, programme director at ADA; and Air Vice Marshal B. C. Nanjapa, director (LCA) in the IAF, were among those who witnessed the test firing.
sorry guys I cant give the source, as my toal posts are less than 15
HAL Begins Weaponization Of LCA Tejas; Fires RD 73 Air-to-Air Missile
India's indigenously developed Tejas light combat aircraft (LCA) Thursday achieved its 'most significant milestone yet' with a 'copy-book' test firing of a close combat missile to mark the beginning of the jet's weaponisation programme.
'The historic event marks the beginning of weaponisation, which is the focus of the current initial operational clearance (IOC) phase of the (Tejas) programme,' a defence ministry statement said. 'The test was conducted from a mobile telemetry vehicle where all the aircraft, systems and weapon data were closely monitored.
'Quick analysis of the data revealed that it was a 'text book' launch where the systems' performance matched the predictions well,' the statement said. The test firing of the R-73 missile was conducted at an altitude of 7 km at an air-to-air range off the Goa coast, with the aircraft flying at a speed of Mach 0.6.
'Air-to-air missile integration and testing, especially on a fly-by-wire aircraft is a very complex task involving interfaces with aerodynamics, engine air intake, control laws, flight control systems, avionics systems, and electrical and other general systems of an aircraft,' the statement said. The test firing was meant to validate five parameters:
* Safe separation of the missile from the parent aircraft,
* Effect of the missile plume on the aircraft's engine air-intake,
* Functionality of the aircraft's store management system (SMS), including its safety interlocks,
* Effect of the missile plume on the aircraft's composites structures, and
* Assessment of the aircraft's handling qualities during the missile launch.
The test firing was conducted from a Tejas prototype vehicle PV-1 flown by Gp. Capt. N. Harish, chief test pilot of the National Flight Test Centre of the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) that has designed the aircraft. A photo-chase Sea Harrier aircraft flown by the Indian Navy's Capt. Yatish Saxena and Cdr. Dalip Singh monitored the test from the air.
'The (test) has proven the capability of the composite team comprising designers, and production, certification, flight test and user (Indian Air Force) agencies to integrate and flight test an advanced missile on the Tejas,' the statement said. The Indian Navy's INS Hansa station in Goa 'provided all support for this important flight trial,' the statement added.
D. Banerjee, chief controller (R&D) at the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO); P.S. Subramaniam, programme director at ADA; and Air Vice Marshal B. C. Nanjapa, director (LCA) in the IAF, were among those who witnessed the test firing.
Tejas test fires missile
Hey guys ,
Good news for Tejas fan , the Brains developing the LCA have test fired a Russian R-73 missile from Tejas successfully. This will definately help it in carring the DRDO`s Astra air 2 air missile in it`s inventory.
Check out the link.
http://www.indianexpress.com/story/232385.html.
Also the Indo-Russian love affair continues as both of them have signed the agreement 2 develop the 5th generation stealth aircraft.
U got to check the link
http://www.indianexpress.com/story/229999.html
Hey guys ,
Good news for Tejas fan , the Brains developing the LCA have test fired a Russian R-73 missile from Tejas successfully. This will definately help it in carring the DRDO`s Astra air 2 air missile in it`s inventory.
Check out the link.
http://www.indianexpress.com/story/232385.html.
Also the Indo-Russian love affair continues as both of them have signed the agreement 2 develop the 5th generation stealth aircraft.
U got to check the link
http://www.indianexpress.com/story/229999.html
I know man, both the links have been posted thrice in a row on this thread.
However not many thoughts on the issue.
About the FGFA (PAK-FA), the details will be given in the next parliament session, and the IPR issue will be worked out, its good if we can use the developed technology for the project- for other projects (MCA) too, Personally i think we should have created a third front, of the very talked about 5th gen VLO aircrafts, possibly something like Japan-India-Singapore and/or France-UK-USA-Israel providing technical help (or not), it would have taken a long time, money, and efforts however we are not going to face any thing with VLO any time soon, O well if we have to go Russian, we have to go Russian (i guess).
On the Tejas test, the integration part has been completed, now 2007-2008 will see more weapon tests like Medium range AAM(with the temporary radar)/ Short range AAM fired at drones from low/high altitude, low/high G, low/high speeds.
Eventually making sure that IAF gets some thing, with the Kaveri and MMR integrating in the platform by 2012-13.
I just wish that the DRDO/HAL/ADA team actually showcase some of the maneuverability they say the Delta wings provide.
As for the ASTRA AAM, the project has not finished yet (has it?), let us see how it does when it comes out.
The Russian missiles used on Tejas will make sure common missiles with SU-30/MiG29. If we go European or American on the MMRCA it might not be a bad idea to let them integrate the new missile types on Tejas for free.
However not many thoughts on the issue.
About the FGFA (PAK-FA), the details will be given in the next parliament session, and the IPR issue will be worked out, its good if we can use the developed technology for the project- for other projects (MCA) too, Personally i think we should have created a third front, of the very talked about 5th gen VLO aircrafts, possibly something like Japan-India-Singapore and/or France-UK-USA-Israel providing technical help (or not), it would have taken a long time, money, and efforts however we are not going to face any thing with VLO any time soon, O well if we have to go Russian, we have to go Russian (i guess).
On the Tejas test, the integration part has been completed, now 2007-2008 will see more weapon tests like Medium range AAM(with the temporary radar)/ Short range AAM fired at drones from low/high altitude, low/high G, low/high speeds.
Eventually making sure that IAF gets some thing, with the Kaveri and MMR integrating in the platform by 2012-13.
I just wish that the DRDO/HAL/ADA team actually showcase some of the maneuverability they say the Delta wings provide.
As for the ASTRA AAM, the project has not finished yet (has it?), let us see how it does when it comes out.
The Russian missiles used on Tejas will make sure common missiles with SU-30/MiG29. If we go European or American on the MMRCA it might not be a bad idea to let them integrate the new missile types on Tejas for free.
Congratulations!
What's the overall status of LCA's progress now? I believe the first 20 production version of LCA will start to be delievered from 2009.
Then what's the schedule for the PV5, PV6 twin seaters and the 2 Naval LCAs and the 7 LSP LCAs? All gonna come out in the next 14 months?
Looking forward to 2008
What's the overall status of LCA's progress now? I believe the first 20 production version of LCA will start to be delievered from 2009.
Then what's the schedule for the PV5, PV6 twin seaters and the 2 Naval LCAs and the 7 LSP LCAs? All gonna come out in the next 14 months?
Looking forward to 2008
The limited series production versions for the initial induction into the air force are being manufactured, it is apparent that the integration work for the weapons have started, so as soon as its over i guess that the formal induction with the GE 404 IN20 engine a new version customised for Tejas, and EL 2032 radar, will begin. The Kaveri engine (with the French or Russians) and the Muti Mode Radar(with the Israelis) will be completed by 2012-13.
However acording to this link the MMR might be completed this year.
Naval LCA Tejas prototype is supposed to start tests next year.
I am doubtful about the Naval Tejas, will it be really short legged form a STOBAR carrier?
Well atleast the navy can modify an indigenous effort to its own requirements, i suspect it might end up with a lot of modifications from the Air Force Tejas.
However acording to this link the MMR might be completed this year.
http://www.domain-b.com/industry/aerospace/20071026_successful.htm
Naval LCA Tejas prototype is supposed to start tests next year.
I am doubtful about the Naval Tejas, will it be really short legged form a STOBAR carrier?
Well atleast the navy can modify an indigenous effort to its own requirements, i suspect it might end up with a lot of modifications from the Air Force Tejas.
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sashikanth
New Member
congratulations to the tejas team for the wonderful feat.A completely inginious system is a huge step in a great direction.
http://www.hindu.com/2007/10/26/stories/2007102662611700.htm
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9ZMuisk4I8"]YouTube - LCA Tejas fires R-73 missile[/ame]
http://www.hindu.com/2007/10/26/stories/2007102662611700.htm
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9ZMuisk4I8"]YouTube - LCA Tejas fires R-73 missile[/ame]
ya i guess now this thing will be posted a thousand times,
sashikanth what do you think about this test, was the ability to integrate a missile with out the cooperation of the firm providing the missile an achievement? Why do you think the Russian firms were not helpful in providing the required data? Should we use weapons by the Russian firm on the project given their lack of cooperation?
sashikanth what do you think about this test, was the ability to integrate a missile with out the cooperation of the firm providing the missile an achievement? Why do you think the Russian firms were not helpful in providing the required data? Should we use weapons by the Russian firm on the project given their lack of cooperation?
http://www.hindu.com/2007/10/26/stories/2007102662611700.htm
This sounds very similar to the problems Sweden had with the americans regarding the integration of AMRAAM on Gripen. They were not very helpful at first, they probably had prefered to sell american fighters to Sweden. Later they caved in, but the trust was damaged and that was one reason Sweden went for IRIS-T, Meteor and some other co-developed weapons.
Well interesting, Russian firms operate in a way that is beyond my what i can only classify as a limited business sense, the Tejas project has received support and will be operational one way or the another, helping the Indian firms involved ensures that a huge amount of sales are made in the actual operational Tejas aircraft.
Unless they imagined that the capability will somehow hamper the future prospect for the sale of their missiles to India.
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