New major military powers
- Thread starter mexsoldier
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I couldn't agree with you more. Excellent response. And as I said, they wouldn't have many things without our generous aid.
Aparrently gf0012-aust things otherwise.
Israel had considerable German economic aid in the 1950s, which allowed it to spend more on arms than it could otherwise have afforded, & some direct military aid from Germany (free tanks!) in the 1960s, before 1967. US financial aid to Israel began in 1949, & military aid in 1959, though sums were small until 1966. US military aid became very large in 1971 ($500 mn) & has remained so ever since.
http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/25384.pdf
Note that the very large grant in 1974 was mostly restrospective funding for equipment which had already been donated to Israel, mostly during & immediately after the 1973 war, & that Israel has not been required to repay its military loans from the USA. They've been written off. The change to all grants in 1985 was a recognition of the absurdity of lending money while simultaneously giving the money for the repayments.
Indeed. With ca 30% of current military spending (i.e. the majority of procurement spending) funded by foreign aid, it's clear that Israels current military strength is heavily dependent on aid. It's therefore not an independent power.
I agree. Israel is a military power. But that is because of the U.S. and as you mentioned German foriegn aid. Without that, they would be nowwhere as powerful.
BTW Swerve, did you just become a moderator? If so, good job to you.
Finally, a moderator that doesn't dislike/disagree with me. Admin. You might want to note that when posters are edited or banned we usually discuss the issue in the Mods forum. You've come to more than my attention.
You're skating on really really thin ice. Lift your game.
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The aid that goes to Israel is just meant to lift the burden from Israel's national budget on most of the defense spending as it has relatively small economy. If the aid stopped today they would just start spending their own money.I couldn't agree with you more. Excellent response. And as I said, they wouldn't have many things without our generous aid.
Aparrently gf0012-aust things otherwise.
And really what other choice would they have? The Iranians are already spending $8 billion dollars a year on their military and that's not a problem for Iran's $100 billion national budget. The Saudis have one of the largest defence budget in the world with $25 billion a year which is also no problem for their $160 billion national budget. Believe me if the Americans cut off aid it will just be replaced with Israeli money even if it puts a strain on the economy.
Answer what? You have a point of view which you are wedded to. Its not up to me to convert your perspective. Its up to you to substantiate some generalisations which you seem keen to reinforce at the expense of actual events that unfolded.
On another note.
If you have a problem with my moderation then deal with it via PM or to the Web. If you raise it on a thread again then you run the risk of going back on forum enforced holidays.
Do not use the forums to reply to this last missive from me.
It is not that easy to replace the foreign aid with your own money.
Saying "it will just be replaced with israeli money" excludes the possible results for the economy.
If you just start spending the same amount of your onw money like you got for free it is going to have results onto your economy. And those results are not what one wants to have.
For sure Israel would try to replace some of the lost foreign aid but in reality they would just not be able to spend the same amount of money.
It would maybe enough to remain relatively safe from foreign agressions but it wouldn't be enough to keep up the big gap they have now compared to their neighbours.
actually it is possible to replace the U.S aid, Israel can use its reserves to take care of about 50% of the aid($3bill starting this year), and Israel can tale loans for the rest, the Israeli budget is $70bill, it has reserves of about $1.5bill, so a debt of $1.5bill is not that bad considering what we had in the 90's.
I actually though it was $48 billion or is my memory deceiving me?
well in the news there was an artical about the new Israeli budget about a week ago, it said the budget was 300bill NIS, thats about 69.7 bill USD.
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... that might just be the weak dollar (exchange rate) lately though. In this kind of dimension, just the weaker dollar in comparison to a year ago accounts for up to 4-5 billion USD difference alone (too lazy to actually do the math).
edit: for the dollar figure only of course.
not realy, at the time they said the budget is 300bill NIS the Dollar was about 4.3 NIS, $69.7bill. and it(the Dollar) hadnt realy moved lately.
That's for one year. Then there are no reserves, & an accumulating debt. Or taxes go up, or other expenditure goes down, or the government deficit goes up, increasing the government debt (currently just under 90% of GDP).
US aid is over 2% of Israels GDP, at the moment. That's as much as most countries spend on their military in total. A lot to absorb, year on year, particularly as most of it pays for imported equipment. Some of that could be replaced by Israeli-made arms, but most probably couldn't.
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I would also hazzard and say it gets a lot of offical aid and unoffical inteligence and aid. Discounted spares, discounted purchases, technology, favourable defence contracts with US companies etc.
The US see Israel as a important country to back in the Middle east. Also the jewish voting block in the USA is extremely strong. So its not just pure military strategy that sees a lot of aid flowing to Israel.
I think more importantly if US aid stopped, then I think more than a few countries would have a go at it or at try to outspend israel. The ambilical cord that ties Israel to the US is Israels best defence.
I think you will find this is one of the primary reasons islamic terrorists are targeting the USA in particular.
The US see Israel as a important country to back in the Middle east. Also the jewish voting block in the USA is extremely strong. So its not just pure military strategy that sees a lot of aid flowing to Israel.
I think more importantly if US aid stopped, then I think more than a few countries would have a go at it or at try to outspend israel. The ambilical cord that ties Israel to the US is Israels best defence.
I think you will find this is one of the primary reasons islamic terrorists are targeting the USA in particular.
That's very true. I think that's what Al-Qaida said they bombed the US for. I don't know why there so bent on targeting civilians.
well you see, thats were your wrong, in the 90's we had alot more then $1.5bill deficit, but now our economy is getting better every year, the $1.5bill deficit will not increas, and will not stay long.
the U.S. aid is about 4%, but we didnt say that the U.S will stop selling to Israel, just that it stopped giving it aid, still, Israel could resuply its army with Israeli arms, after all, the only reason Israel is using the U.S weapons is because of the discount of $2.4bill, now to be $3bill. Israel will not have any problem with resupplying itself, after all, its the 8th largest arms exporter in the world.
You're making a curious assumption here, i.e. that the Israeli economy will not suffer from an increase in military spending equivalent to what most countries spend in total, & that the balance of payments (already in deficit) will be able to stand a large increase in imports with no corresponding increase in exports.
Yes, Israel is a large arms exporter. But its arms industry benefits from US aid, both in terms of the US money which Israel is permitted to spend within Israel, & preferential access to US technology. Take that away, & it would be less competitive. And Israel does not have a full range of capabilities. It cannot, for example, manufacture engines for high-performance aircraft. Its sole attempt to develop a fighter was cancelled when US funding was withdrawn, as being unaffordable. The skill base built up for that project probably no longer exists. Israel would have to import many weapons, 8th largest exporter or not.
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