i think you mean the first prototype of the black eagle,which was simple said a T80 chassis equipped with the black eagle turret,it has been further developed,which resulted in the lengthering of the chassis with a seventh road wheel,to further improve the road capability/firs-hit capability imo.
Saudi considers T-95 MBTs?
- Thread starter Izzy1
- Start date
Correct - does anybody know the designation to the one with the lengthened hull and additional roadwheels, and are they trying to export it.
Choosing a tank with an autoloader would help the Saudis.
They already have a serious problem in manning their equipment and 3 crew members instead of four (Which is still the better solution in my eyes for countries without manning problems) could help to solve some of these problems.
They already have a serious problem in manning their equipment and 3 crew members instead of four (Which is still the better solution in my eyes for countries without manning problems) could help to solve some of these problems.
They do use alot of outside help in manning their ground forces. I just see alot of logistical issues with ammunition alone due to the different models of tanks that are storage already, it`ll be interesting to see why they purchased 150 T-90`s.
Because of this I would think Leclerc sounds better for them than a T-90.
It also helps them to reduce the need for manning their tanks and could use the same ammo like the M1A2s they already use.
And there is already the tropicaine version in use with the UAE so they have experience with making the Leclerc suitable for the Saudi environment.
Maybe the T-90s are just somme funny new toys for their National Guard which seem to be more there for countering their own army than for giving additional strength to the defense forces.
It also helps them to reduce the need for manning their tanks and could use the same ammo like the M1A2s they already use.
And there is already the tropicaine version in use with the UAE so they have experience with making the Leclerc suitable for the Saudi environment.
Maybe the T-90s are just somme funny new toys for their National Guard which seem to be more there for countering their own army than for giving additional strength to the defense forces.
radiosilence
jints
Has it been confirmed that the Saudis will buy T-90s?
That could be in-gards to their National Gaurd, I guess Russia finally resolved all the over heating issues with the turret FCS, plus you know that Saudi Arabia will want all the latest and greatest gadgets that Russia currently offers.Because of this I would think Leclerc sounds better for them than a T-90.
It also helps them to reduce the need for manning their tanks and could use the same ammo like the M1A2s they already use.
And there is already the tropicaine version in use with the UAE so they have experience with making the Leclerc suitable for the Saudi environment.
Maybe the T-90s are just somme funny new toys for their National Guard which seem to be more there for countering their own army than for giving additional strength to the defense forces.
As of now yes, but it will not be the first time to have them change their minds.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #131
As eckherl said, there is a bit of a tradition of changing views around here!
After a flurry of media speculation, what seemed a very likely deal has once again dissapeared without trace. The same thing happened with regards the much speculated Al Khalid MBT order.
The influence of the traditional western arms suppliers to Saudi is something that should never be underestimated here. There is also a new-found resistance within the Saudi military to further complicate already complex logistics and maintenance issues by introducing kit from completely new foreign-sources. The US-managed Saudi Arabian National Guard especially has avoided introducing multiple-sourced weapons systems and tended to stick with buying large quantaties of kit from a single supplier (the order for over 1,100 LAV-25s & variants for example).
darkknight87
New Member
The Saudis should definitely buy the Al - Khalid Tank. After all it's built by a Muslim Nation and therefore it will help the region and promote a self reliance on Weapons in the Middle East. The Saudis will probably go for the Al Khalid Tank in the End I believe.
I just wanted to ask a question. Is the Leo 2 Tank suitable for desert terrain? I'm not sure if it is. Modern American, British, French and Russian Tanks have been used in Desert Warfare but I never heard of Modern German Tanks being used in Desert Warfare.
I just wanted to ask a question. Is the Leo 2 Tank suitable for desert terrain? I'm not sure if it is. Modern American, British, French and Russian Tanks have been used in Desert Warfare but I never heard of Modern German Tanks being used in Desert Warfare.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #133
If Al Khalid is bought by the Saudis, I predict one of two fates. Either immediate storage or they will be donated to another regional ally. As I have said before, Al Khalid is a favourite with someone over at the Ministry of Defence and certainly not the RSLF who have made it clear they don't want it.
SaudiArabian
New Member
buying more MBT's for our RSLF has no real significance
both the RSLF and SANG should aquire more Saudi-made AFV's and APC's such as Al Fahd , Al Faisal , Al Mansoor and Al Kasir (which are products of Al Farsi Heavy Industries and the Saudi Group and are being used in the Saudi Armed Forces , the National Guard and the Security Forces) because its costs are much more less than buying foriegn made main battle tanks and its effectiveness in a desert terrain is higher plus that the costs of maintaining them in such weather are less as well
the problem of "manning the M1A2's in the RSLF" is something that the Saudi command wants the world to know as i saw in Prince Khalid website that 200 M1A2's are not crewed and are in storage .
this is weird especially that the ministry of Defense and Aviation have bought 58 more Abrams and signed a contract to upgrade them to the S version and build a facility to assemble the new M1A2S's in the Kingdom
as for the news of buying French and Russian tanks , i'll not believe it untill it happens but for the mean while , i consider it a tactic to reduce the price of certain MBT's made by these both countries
both the RSLF and SANG should aquire more Saudi-made AFV's and APC's such as Al Fahd , Al Faisal , Al Mansoor and Al Kasir (which are products of Al Farsi Heavy Industries and the Saudi Group and are being used in the Saudi Armed Forces , the National Guard and the Security Forces) because its costs are much more less than buying foriegn made main battle tanks and its effectiveness in a desert terrain is higher plus that the costs of maintaining them in such weather are less as well
the problem of "manning the M1A2's in the RSLF" is something that the Saudi command wants the world to know as i saw in Prince Khalid website that 200 M1A2's are not crewed and are in storage .
this is weird especially that the ministry of Defense and Aviation have bought 58 more Abrams and signed a contract to upgrade them to the S version and build a facility to assemble the new M1A2S's in the Kingdom
as for the news of buying French and Russian tanks , i'll not believe it untill it happens but for the mean while , i consider it a tactic to reduce the price of certain MBT's made by these both countries
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #136
Couldn't agree more, RSLF is 'top heavy' in armour and wheeled vehicles such as Al Fahd are more suited to operations and roles the Saudi Land Forces potentially face in the future. I'd personally like to see at least one of the RSLF Mechanised Brigades re-roled to something similar to a US Stryker Combat Brigade, sacrificing heavier tracked armour for more mobile platforms. Such a unit would also be a compliment to the Combined Arms Brigades of the SANG.
The Saudis do not deploy their forces quickly overseas and they don't participate in peacekkeping operations.
As I understand it their land forces are primarily bound to the task of defending their home soil or maybe fight against their neighbours.
So their heavy equipment makes sense.
What benefits would they gain by rebuilding some of their heavy formations into light ones?
As I understand it their land forces are primarily bound to the task of defending their home soil or maybe fight against their neighbours.
So their heavy equipment makes sense.
What benefits would they gain by rebuilding some of their heavy formations into light ones?
SaudiArabian
New Member
alot of benifits
the Kingdom has a very large size and very tough terrain . we all witnessed what happened to the American M1A2's in the war on Iraq 2003 and how some of its electronics was damaged because of the heat
and besides , the MBT's are slow and costs alot to buy and to maintain and its range is less , unlike the light AFV's
personally , i find a faster cheaper AFV that is well equipped with laser-guided anti-armor missile with a range no less than 5~6 km's or more is much effective than a slower expensive heavy MBT with DU shell's that can NOT hit targets far than 5 kilometers
that is one of the reasons (or perhaps the main reason) why the SANG is more effective than the RSLF
Heat management has nothing to do with a vehicle being heavy or light.
I agree on the cost issue but I thought that budget restrictions are a minor problem in Saudi Arabia.
MBTs are for sure not slow when it comes to cross country performance. In the end they can operate better in difficult terrain than lighter wheeled vehicles. But they tend to fall behind when it comes to easy flat terrain or street networks.
You are right when stating that missile carriers can be a really pain in the ass for enemy mech formations especially in open desert terrain where they can play with their excellent range.
But they are not as versatile and steadfast like real MBTs.
A light formation (like the mentioned stryker brigades) cannot hope to go head on against a heavy formation (Lets take an armored BCT) without getting mauled.
I agree on the cost issue but I thought that budget restrictions are a minor problem in Saudi Arabia.
MBTs are for sure not slow when it comes to cross country performance. In the end they can operate better in difficult terrain than lighter wheeled vehicles. But they tend to fall behind when it comes to easy flat terrain or street networks.
You are right when stating that missile carriers can be a really pain in the ass for enemy mech formations especially in open desert terrain where they can play with their excellent range.
But they are not as versatile and steadfast like real MBTs.
A light formation (like the mentioned stryker brigades) cannot hope to go head on against a heavy formation (Lets take an armored BCT) without getting mauled.
How much reliance does Egyptian military personnel play in Saudi Arabia`s military structure, could the M1A2s be for them to man seeings how they operate the M1A1. Also is it possible that Saudi Arabia will purchase T-90`s for Algeria to help them out, If I am really off base with this please let me know.