Saudi considers T-95 MBTs?
- Thread starter Izzy1
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SaudiArabian
New Member
thank youIm sorry but thats a french vehicle. I forgot the name as well but its definitely french.
Editanhard VBL Scout Car
i thought it was an old Russian BTR
Yes - North Korea has modified T-62`s with spaced armor compliments of the Irainians. Russia really hasn`t shown much interest in giving North Korea a helping due to not being comphensated for it thus the reason for going to Iran for assistance, but yes it is the same reactive armor package found on the Irainian T-72.
This is only partially right. True, with limitless money Russian would have already fielded new tank tank, may be even T-95. But Russia dont plan to spend significant money on new tank for next 5-6 years - and in that timeframe something called "T-95" will be developed and modified further. In the end, it might be even entirely redisigned. There is no question what T-95 can be produced in 1-2 years given full financial support. But this is out of question. To make it financially attractive Russia need an export order for thousands of these tanks - and it is just wrong time for such contract. I dont see any country around capable of ordering such amount of new expencive toys.
Hi Extern - it is good to hear from you
You do not think that Russia would not sell arms to Saudi Arabia, times have changed and with the huge potential pay off for Russia I think they would jump at it in a heart beat. But I do agree with Chrom that the T-95 is just a proto type that will not be going anywhere in the near future and when they do decide to produce, that it will only be Russia`s little gem. Russian weapons systems are making a come back in the Middle East with even Egypt looking at air defense and aircraft systems. I do not think that Saudi Arabia will buy anything major from Russia, at least not for themeslves but crazy things do happen.
Not only SA will not buy something major, but also Russia will not sell. For those who still doesnt know: Wahhabism (the oficially ideology of SA) is forbidden on all the territory of Russia. The bulk number of SArabian religeous and 'humanitarian' organisation are still remain in the Russian terror list, was published before some months. Althought there is no any list of 'terror supporting stated' in Russia, like US has, - SA should be the first candidate for this. So there is 0-probability for Russia selling to SA weapons like RPGs, portative anti-aircraft missiles or even rifles. All those so called 'AK-47' pictured with SA paras - are illegal copies may be from China or Pakistan, I donno, but certainly not from Russia.I do not think that Saudi Arabia will buy anything major from Russia, at least not for themeslves but crazy things do happen.
Just need to know, that Russia is keeping relative consensus towards SA and wahhabism. The traditional Russian muslim confessions are strong opponents of wahhabi neophytes, and ask from Kremlin to be as hard as possible with them. Especially negative are Chechens and Dagestanians - providing the dominated islamic streams there are sufiism and shiism. They even dont call to wahhabis 'muslims', since they think, it is a new sect or even a new faith. Also those Saudi wahabies, came to Chechenis, started 2nd Chechen War with gloom consequence for Chechen people. The Chechen leadership apropos promotes better relation with Iran, there is some news from Iranian IRNA agency on Russian: http://www2.irna.ir/ru/news/view/menu-291/0706154513155921.htm The Iranian even promiced direct help for Chechen republic of Ru Federation. Iran also tries to push the wahhabis out of Russia in ideological aspects. The rivarly between Iran and SA is also well known.
Thus I dont think the last eventualities in Ru-SA relations mean something more that usuall diplomatic maneuvering. I cannot see any additional breakthrought after the diplomatic relations were established. So I think, Russia will initially allow selling with something very limited (if yes) without big strategic consequences (like transport helos). Many factors push Russia to be with SA on same caution like with Pakistan. The Russian fear fear from leakage tech secrets to US - is the next. I'm more optimistic for development in civilian sectors. I even think, Russia will link it with military cooperation starting.
Also to not overestimate the significance of weapon selling for Russian economy - it's just a little part of what Russia has from oil-gas-metall export. Also the mil fascilities in Russia are full with current orders from abroad (~ $30 bil) and from Russian DM. Even the gigantic UVZ tank plant saffers from some delay because big orders from India and Algeria.
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SaudiArabian
New Member
i prefer not to answer to everything so that we don't go off-topic because there are mistakes in what you've said
Prince Saud Al Faisal confirmed the Saudi-Russian talks over possible Arms sale and possibility of a Saudi-Russian cooperation in Nuclear energy
i really hope this arm sale includes the S-400 system , and i hope these batteries to be stationed in King Faisal Air Base in Tabuk
this is from CSIS The Gulf Military Forces in an Era of AsymmetricWar ; Saudi Arabia 28/6/2006
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Cooperation in energy sector is more than prbable, like Russia pretends to be the main contractor for some Saudi rail transport projects. But the Russian delegates in SA said then they hope the main part of cooperation will be civilian. It's rather wise since civilian cooperation with SA doesnt bear political and military risks for Russia like weapon sale. Also, the main part of SA relation with Western states are civilian contracts too. About alegedely Igla in SA: Russia demands preliminary signing special international agreement for portable AA misiles with all its client. That provides strict control for the missiles and even right to inspect the country. Donno if SA signed this agreement at all. 'Igla' still may be purchased illegaly, if this information even true.
Returning to topic: T-95 is absent in the export list of Rosoboronexport. Everybody can check it on its site. So, the question is out of sence...
While part about religion and small arms is true - you draw wrong conclusion about big selling thing. T-90 or Su-30 cannot be used by terrorists in Chechnya, and so Russia will be more than happy to sell tanks, big SAM's or aricrafts to SA. Selling MANPADS and RPG are of course much less likely, but still NOT unprobably as it will be very easy to track them back to SA should they appear in wrong place. SA might as well supply terrorist with M-16 or chinese Kalashnilov.
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Russia will not help military for regime like SA, that still helps to wahhabis. It like US will sell weapon for its enemy Iran - highly improbable, isnt it, although Abrams production line is still frozen and waits for clients. The diplomatic meating between C. Rise and Iran ministers doesnt change anything in this aspect, does it.
Those rumors about T-95 tests in SA is all but mean to press on US about new weapon deal, that Israel tried to curb. About the deal: http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satell...81813037101&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull
If you look on these terrorist leaders in Chechen (2007), you can see the distinguishing sign of Wahhabi sectants: the elongated finger. So their political-religeous attitude is very clear... You also can see, two of those terrorist leaders are certainly ethnic arabs (probably SA or Jordan bedouin).
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The support is not from goverement itself, althought from close circles. Either way, Russia is very practical in that aspect, and will certainly sell weapon to SA IF there is insurance what weapon will not land in terrorist hands. For big heavy equipment like tanks it is obvios. For small arms it is less so, but still Russia can be resonable sure what MANPAD's will not land in wrong hands - after all, SA is quite rich country and it have no need for such obvios violation of contracts and exposed links to terrorists. If need, SA will find a way to support terrorist without buying weapon directly from Russia. As such, Russia have absolutely NO risk selling weapon to SA.
mysterious
New Member
That is one of the most xenophobic things I've ever come across on DT. I have no love for Wahhabis but saying someone is Wahhabi just because they have an elongated finger, etc is just disturbing to hear. And you speak of Arabs in a degraded way which is clear from your last sentence. I wonder if the Mods are being selective in letting these types of comments float around here.
When you accuse Chechen rebels as terrorists, you are making a political statement. For many, they are freedom fighters, fighting Russia's ruthless state tyranny. So where does being politically correct lie? Well certainly not here on DT, if I'm not mistaken, this is a purely defense related forum so no room for tongue-in-cheek political statements!
They are Wahhabi, it is official. Check they website, etc. They financial support is from arabic Wahhabi circles. Many of they instructors or commanders - from arabic countries. You can check the names the so-called "chechen field commanders" killed. Many of they are arabic.
As far as politcally correct... you know, every terrorst kill for something greater. As such, it is a matter of personal view to call them "terrorists" of "freedom fighters". For me they are bandits - they proved it well during they "independence" in 90x.
Grand Danois
Entertainer
Stay on topic - that means Saudi considers T-95 MBTs?. Any further Wahhabist/Chechnya/fingers discussions and the thread risks getting closed down, which no one would want it to get.
Thanks
Thanks
This thread is no more serving the purpose it was opened for.
Those who brought the religion into a technical thread should refrain from introducing and bashing religion again. This is a fair warning to them. Mods have noticed but stopped short of banning them.
Another attempt and they will be banned and you know who I am alluding to!
Pshamim
Those who brought the religion into a technical thread should refrain from introducing and bashing religion again. This is a fair warning to them. Mods have noticed but stopped short of banning them.
Another attempt and they will be banned and you know who I am alluding to!
Pshamim
UAE's the only Gulf country considering the S-400 and the Saudis already invested billions of dollars in PAC-3 and Egypt already made a request for PAC-3. This is not a matter of buying the best equipment if it was they would have bought something like the Su-30 MKI instead of the Typhoon. Saudi buying the S-400 is wishful thinking personally I also wish they'd buy it but it's unlikely.i really hope this arm sale includes the S-400 system , and i hope these batteries to be stationed in King Faisal Air Base in Tabuk
The T-95 might be in Saudi for price reasons to drive the price down for the Leclerc 2 but I'm not sure but probably. The T-95 prototype already went home to Russia.