The Royal Navy Discussions and Updates

[riksavage]

I would like to see the UK's land-attack varient of the 45 (should it ever appear) after some of the classic historical British warships, including:

Hood, Warspite, Dreadnought and Repulse.

 

[Tasman]

Australia used to ahve some pretty good names wiht great history as well but we now name ships after towns.

A pity we lost Vendetta, Voyager, Vampire, Vengence (although we only had this one for a short time), Stalwart, Swordsman, Tatto etc etc etc (not to mention the attach class patrol boat names).

I know it is not going to happen but I would have loved to see the new AWD's named after the "V"s.

The Anzac class became really mixed up. The first of the class took the names of historic RAN destroyer and frigate type ships which was appropriate and then the navy switched to city names for the last of them, including Perth which, IMO, should have been reserved for a major unit like an AWD.

When I think about it some of the best RAN names in the past were for ships transferred from the RN which kept their RN names, like the Vs for example. But I liked the tribal names, Arunta and Warramunga which were first introduced in WW2.

It would certainly be great to see another HMS Hood in the RN, but please not an HMS Tony Blair! :shudder

Cheers

 

[riksavage]

The Kiwis should have named thier ANZAC frigates - Ajax and Achilles, after the Royal New Zealand Navy vessels which served with distinction at the battle of the River Plate against the Graf Spee in Dec 39.

 

[Tasman]

The Kiwis should have named thier ANZAC frigates - Ajax and Achilles, after the Royal New Zealand Navy vessels which served with distinction at the battle of the River Plate against the Graf Spee in Dec 39.

At the time of the Battle of the River Plate Achilles was actually a unit of what was then known as the New Zealand Division of the RN, which was officially part of the RN but which was manned mainly by Kiwis. Ajax was a RN ship. The term RNZN dates from 1st October 1941, at which time HMS Achilles became HMNZS Achilles. Leander, a sister ship of Ajax and Achilles also served with the New Zealand Division and then transferred to the RNZN on 1/10/41.

I think Achilles would be a good name to re-use in the RNZN because I think its part in the destruction of Graf Spee gained fine reputation for Kiwi sailors and probably contributed to the decision by the NZ government to form its own navy less than two years later.

Cheers

 

[contedicavour]

I'd just honour the memory of exceptional captains of the past.
In Italy we use the names of admirals and other war heroes for our DDGs and FFGs and SSKs. Names such as Andrea Doria (Genoese admiral who won the great battle of Lepanto in 1571), Caio Duilio (Roman admiral who won against the Carthaginese fleet), De la Penne (the frogman who blew up 2 British battleships in Alexandria in WW2), Mimbelli (who defended successfully a big convoy near Crete Island with 1 escort ship against several British cruisers), Todaro (submarine captain who led the Italian subs based in Bordeaux in WW2), etc
For our carriers however it's more bizarre : Conte Di Cavour is the prime minister of Piedmont who masterminded the reunification of Italy in 1861 (not much to do with the Navy though) and Vittorio Veneto (the final battle of WW1 against Austria - but it was a land battle !).

cheers

 

[swerve]

I'd just honour the memory of exceptional captains of the past....

cheers

We've done that, e.g. Hood, Rodney, Nelson, Drake, Raleigh, Howe, Collingwood, Benbow, Barham, Grafton (the first was commanded by the Duke of Grafton). But the RN used to have far too many ships for that to be enough, & some of the names are now used for stone frigates, e.g. Collingwood.

The RN once had a ship called Tromp - captured from the Dutch, & not renamed. Well, I suppose they thought he'd been a worthy adversary, & deserved respect.

BTW, the RN has named ships after land battles.

 

[contedicavour]

It is certainly very strange that there is no HMS Nelson sailing as we speak. He was the most successful admiral of his time. Without wanting to be disrespectful towards the British monarchy, I would have named the 2 new CVF carriers as HMS Nelson and Cunningham (really a tough adversary we faced in the Mediterranean in WW2). I would then name the Type 45s with captains from more ancient times, HMS Drake for instance

cheers

PS : sorry it's OT, is the Cutty Sark completely burned out or has it been more or less salvaged by the firefighters ?

 

[swerve]

It is certainly very strange that there is no HMS Nelson sailing as we speak. He was the most successful admiral of his time. Without wanting to be disrespectful towards the British monarchy, I would have named the 2 new CVF carriers as HMS Nelson and Cunningham (really a tough adversary we faced in the Mediterranean in WW2). I would then name the Type 45s with captains from more ancient times, HMS Drake for instance

cheers

PS : sorry it's OT, is the Cutty Sark completely burned out or has it been more or less salvaged by the firefighters ?

There is an HMS Nelson - but it's a stone frigate, i.e. a shore base.

Most (some estimates say 80%) of the planking on Cutty Sark was burned in the fire, either destroyed or damaged enough to be ruined. But that's not the end of the world. She was built in the brief period in which timber was being put on wrought iron frames, & she has an iron frame, which does not appear to have suffered much warping (none obvious to the naked eye: measurements awaited), so that much of the structure is intact. Also, her masts, deckhouses, decorative (e.g. figurehead) & all interior fittings, plus about half the planking, had been removed for restoration, & is all safe. So if 80% of the planking on the ship is lost, that's only 40% of the total planking - and a fair bit was rotten & scheduled for replacement in any case.

What burned wasn't even a shell: it was half-way between a shell & a skeleton, & the bones have survived.

 

[Tasman]

There is an HMS Nelson - but it's a stone frigate, i.e. a shore base.

Most (some estimates say 80%) of the planking on Cutty Sark was burned in the fire, either destroyed or damaged enough to be ruined. But that's not the end of the world. She was built in the brief period in which timber was being put on wrought iron frames, & she has an iron frame, which does not appear to have suffered much warping (none obvious to the naked eye: measurements awaited), so that much of the structure is intact. Also, her masts, deckhouses, decorative (e.g. figurehead) & all interior fittings, plus about half the planking, had been removed for restoration, & is all safe. So if 80% of the planking on the ship is lost, that's only 40% of the total planking - and a fair bit was rotten & scheduled for replacement in any case.

What burned wasn't even a shell: it was half-way between a shell & a skeleton, & the bones have survived.

Surely Nelson deserves something better than a shore base. I agree with contedicavour that a prestigious ship should bear the name.

Thanks for the good news about Cutty Sark. Let's hope she will be fully restored.

Cheers

 

[harryriedl]

i for one do like prince of wales it seems suitable for a modern capital ship [one of the most modern battleship in the RN before it was sunk by the Japaneses and in my opinion is a very good name for the 2nd CVF]

 

[overlander]

before to discuss about the names for the cvf,s wait that they are finally ordered.

 

[swerve]

before to discuss about the names for the cvf,s wait that they are finally ordered.

Why? The names have already been selected, & officially announced. Assuming they're built, they will be Queen Elizabeth & Prince of Wales. Both names have been used before.

 

[harryriedl]

Why? The names have already been selected, & officially announced. Assuming they're built, they will be Queen Elizabeth & Prince of Wales. Both names have been used before.

they have both been capital ships [queen Elizabeth's have the name of two classes of battle ships and prince of wales is also a battle ship]

 

[Tasman]

they have both been capital ships [queen Elizabeth's have the name of two classes of battle ships and prince of wales is also a battle ship]

I think it is highly appropriate for the two most prestigious ships in the RN to carry names previously associated with famous capital ships. Likewise the SSBNs have used former capital ship names. The Last QE was widely regarded as the finest battleship design of the Dreadnought era and after modernisation it served with distinction throughout WW2. The last POW fought against Bismark and was lost when overwhelmed by Japanese air attacks in December1941.

Cheers

 

[contedicavour]

If the Royal Navy is happy with QE and PoW as names for the CVFs, fine with me. I'm only a bit surprised that the RN uses the names of ships that aren't associated with any particular victory and that were sunk (QE by Italian frogmen in Alexandria, although it was later partially repaired, and PoW by the Japanese Air Force) instead of names of victorious ships or captains.
The names of the 3 STOVL RN carriers for instance are more closely associated with glorious ships who fought several battles (even if the Ark Royal did get torpedoed at the end, but, still, you get the point)

cheers

 

[swerve]

If the Royal Navy is happy with QE and PoW as names for the CVFs, fine with me. I'm only a bit surprised that the RN uses the names of ships that aren't associated with any particular victory and that were sunk (QE by Italian frogmen in Alexandria, although it was later partially repaired, and PoW by the Japanese Air Force) instead of names of victorious ships or captains.
The names of the 3 STOVL RN carriers for instance are more closely associated with glorious ships who fought several battles (even if the Ark Royal did get torpedoed at the end, but, still, you get the point)

cheers

There have been 5 RN ships named Ark Royal since the 16th century, 6 Invincible (the first being captured from the French), 5 Illustrious & 7 Prince of Wales since the 18th century, so the history of the most recent examples isn't all that significant. Queen Elizabeth was the planned name of the cancelled CVA-01 carrier of the 1960s.

 

[contedicavour]

There have been 5 RN ships named Ark Royal since the 16th century, 6 Invincible (the first being captured from the French), 5 Illustrious & 7 Prince of Wales since the 18th century, so the history of the most recent examples isn't all that significant. Queen Elizabeth was the planned name of the cancelled CVA-01 carrier of the 1960s.

Invincible, Illustrious and Ark Royal are planned to be used again once all the STOVL CVs will have been retired ? May be as the names for the last Type 45S ?

cheers

 

[harryriedl]

i think the invinsable class [Invincible, Illustrious and Ark Royal ]name might be reused for new subs or a LPH sister to ocean and the QE[1910] was at jutland so QE was at a glorious battle

 

[Rich]

Always good to be reminded of the magnificent naval histories of the European powers. They were taming the worlds oceans long before we Yanks were even a dream. Of particular fascination is the period starting about the time of Lepanto/defeat of the Armada and to about 1800.

That period is a naval historians dream.

I'd just honour the memory of exceptional captains of the past.
In Italy we use the names of admirals and other war heroes for our DDGs and FFGs and SSKs. Names such as Andrea Doria (Genoese admiral who won the great battle of Lepanto in 1571), Caio Duilio (Roman admiral who won against the Carthaginese fleet), De la Penne (the frogman who blew up 2 British battleships in Alexandria in WW2), Mimbelli (who defended successfully a big convoy near Crete Island with 1 escort ship against several British cruisers), Todaro (submarine captain who led the Italian subs based in Bordeaux in WW2), etc
For our carriers however it's more bizarre : Conte Di Cavour is the prime minister of Piedmont who masterminded the reunification of Italy in 1861 (not much to do with the Navy though) and Vittorio Veneto (the final battle of WW1 against Austria - but it was a land battle !).

cheers

 

[Systems Adict]

To change tak slightly from the names of the x2 CVF, I got this link in an e-mail from Janes today, & thought it would be a good discussion point.

http://jni.janes.com

UK's DESO examines potential for warship-building in Southeast Asia

Senior officials from the UK's Defence Export Services Organisation (DESO) are exploring options for building hulls for future UK Royal Navy (RN) warships in Southeast Asia.

Representatives of the UK government's military sales arm are attending the International Maritime Defence Exhibition in Singapore (15-18 May 2007) to seek export opportunities for UK defence companies.

I'll save my personal thoughts until there are a few replies from others, but the obvious question is...

What do you think, Good ? Bad ?, ...& why.

Systems Adict