Which Arab Country Has Strongest Military?

[.pt]

Can´t agree more with Merocaine and Contedicavour. Almost in every European country theres talk of sending an contigent of troops to Lebanon, but when the going gets tough, they will all probably panick. I don´t think Lebanon will be a picnic for those UN forces.
My guess is, that, as in almost every other Un deployment, if both sides aren´t willing to respect the ceasefire, the "meat sandwich" in the middle is going to suffer. And somehow, i´m not seeing those European countries allowing their troops in the field to backlash militarly, proportionally, to the offenders. They may have the means, but will they have a suitable RoE and the suport of their governments to do this? Its a question of political will...
.pt

 

[Waylander]

Sad to say I totally agree with you guys.
The recent political discussion about this here in germany are laughable.

 

[Waylander]

Woohooo, it looks like this operation is going down the toilet before it really begins.
France said they want to send 200 (Not 2000) men.
We said that we send no combat troops but naval, logistic and recon units could be possible.
Iran and Syria declared Hizbollah to be the winner and say that they will go on to support them in future.
Hizbollah says that they won't give up their weapons and won't leave the south.
The Israelis wants to see them dissolved and disarmed.
The lebanese army is not going to fight the Hizbollah if necessary.
No nation seems to be eager to push forward and promise some real usefull contingents.

GREAT...

 

[kams]

France to Lead UN Troops in Lebanon as Israel Transfers Control

Aug. 17 (Bloomberg) -- French President Jacques Chirac said his country will lead an expanded United Nations peacekeeping force in Lebanon as Israel's military transferred control of 50 percent of southern Lebanon to the UN.

France will double its current deployment in the country to 400 soldiers, while Greece and Malaysia also pledged to send troops. German Chancellor Angela Merkel said today that, while her country won't send combat troops to Lebanon, the Germans may offer naval help, AP reported.

Hezbollah has agreed that Lebanese soldiers may take possession of any weapon that is ``found'' in the area, the Associated Press cited Lebanese Information Minister Ghazi Aridi as saying. The UN resolution passed last week demands that the border area be free of militias and their arms. Hezbollah is a virtual state-within-a-state that controls forces independent of the Lebanese army.

Malaysia said today that it wants to send peacekeepers to Lebanon even as Israel says it might oppose the inclusion of countries with which it does not have diplomatic ties, Reuters reported, citing Malaysian Defense Minister Najib Razak.

``There is no reason whatsoever to stop us from sending our men there,'' Razak told reporters, Reuters said.

Predominantly Muslim Malaysia and Indonesia have each offered to send 1,000 troops to the UN force and neither has diplomatic relations with Israel, the news service reported.

Reinforcements

The Greek government has decided to send 100 engineers and a ship to enforce the arms embargo on Lebanon, according to Adamantios Vassilakis, Greece's ambassador to the UN.

400 troops and France wants to lead:wah ..what about Italy? they were talking about 3000. I hope our guys come back. This is a Thankless mission.

 

[Gladius]

400 troops and France wants to lead ..what about Italy? they were talking about 3000. I hope our guys come back. This is a Thankless mission.

Only 400, strange... especially if France intends to lead the mission.

At this moment Spain is planning to send around 800, plus support and logistics. As said the Spanish Minister Alonso to the Media after presiding in Madrid the act of homage to the 17 soldiers, dead when their helo crashed the last year in Afghanistan.

According to the Minister words, the approval is planed to be signed in the meeting of the Cabinet of August 25, nevertheless if the UN requires, it would be called an extraordinary meeting sooner.

Memorial monument in the Spanish Base of Herat (Afghanistan).
http://www.mde.es/actu_ministro/notas_fotog/20060816_afganistan_placa_G.jpg

 

[kams]

BBC today reported that Italy has pledged 3000. Bloomberg is reporting Bangladesh pladged - 1500-2000, followed by Indonesia, Malaysia and Nepal a batallion each. Germany will send ships to patrol the coast.

My question is how come Arab countries like Egypt, Jordan are not pledging any? They have a diplomatic relationship with Israel. Don't you think they have a responsibility to clean-up their own Neighborhood?

 

[Waylander]

That's one of the reasons because of which I don't want to see any german or other soldiers from all over the world beeing hurt.
Why are there nor arab troops part of the new force?
It is their neighbourhood. They should be the first to try to secure the area and stabilize the region!

 

[.pt]

Waylander,

I guess that none of the Arab countries are interested in that mess, other than retorical speeches to galavanise the mobs. And they have many reasons not to want to be involved, i guess. Is it possible that any deployment of arab troops, near Israeli borders, might be viewed with suspicion by the Israelis? also, they might argue that these troops will be biased, even under a UN mandate. Same thing happens with US troops, i guess. One other Reason, is that perhaps they know full well the contenders and know that any peace force sent to the region is liable to get picked at by both parties, with no real capability and RoE to respond, so they don´t want to get killed for nothing. Another reason maybe that, altough many Arab countries preach their allegiance to the palestinians and Lebanon, they are not willing to spend money and resources to help these countries, the exceptions being Iran, Saudi Arabia, UAE and Syria, but for all the motives, except true friendship and a genuine will to help.
As for the French reaction to the UN meeting yesterday, from what i read, their attitude, altough disapointing to some, was the right one. And this because its been reported that the reason for such a small contigent was due to the mandate agreed upon by the varying countries did not satisfy their criteria, namely chain of comand, who commands the troops from all the countries, RoE ( a major point) not clear and not acording to their wishes, severely restricting the ability of the UNIFIL to act, etc. etc. As we discussed in prior posts, not having these things will mean that UNIFIl will be a joke. Good thing the French saw this and backed out.
.pt

 

[kams]

.pt-
I agrre to your point that Israel not trusting Arab Army. However they are not exactly welcoming troops from Bangladesh, Malaysia and Indonesia. These countries do not have diplomatic relation with Israel and they are Muslim countries. On the otherhand Egypt and Jordan have a good relationship with Israel and they have well equipped army.

On the otherhand, Saudi, UAE, Egypt, Jordan etc have a bigger stake here, in preventing resurgence of Shia in Lebanon. If Lebanon gets dominated by Shia, it will be a big boost to Iran, with Iraq almost in the hands of Shia. I think these Arab states fear Iran more than Israel.

Note : I realize that this is getting political. However in Mideast its almost impossible to separate politics from defence. If mods think this is not the right direction for debate, I will stop right here.

 

[Gerasimos]

The latest news are that Greece will only send a frigate and a ship for general support(logistics etc..).No troops...What I really want to see is where will be found the almost 35000 soldiers needed for peacekeeping?

 

[ahussains]

Yeah right we'll need help from several countries since our supposedly leftist and pacifist government hasn't found anything better to do than commit 3,000 of our best troops to Lebanon. We aren't even out of Iraq that we are already committing to another huge operation. With existing pitiful budgets of course, and I'm not even mentioning ROEs. My oh my if only politicians learned a thing or 2 at least ... no, they just keep on committing the same mistakes on and on.

 

[contedicavour]

Yeah right we'll need help from several countries since our supposedly leftist and pacifist government hasn't found anything better to do than commit 3,000 of our best troops to Lebanon. We aren't even out of Iraq that we are already committing to another huge operation. With existing pitiful budgets of course, and I'm not even mentioning ROEs. My oh my if only politicians learned a thing or 2 at least ... no, they just keep on committing the same mistakes on and on.

I don't know what your computer is doing to you, but you are replicating identical posts made by myself and other people on several threads.
Please check twice...

 

[contedicavour]

The latest news are that Greece will only send a frigate and a ship for general support(logistics etc..).No troops...What I really want to see is where will be found the almost 35000 soldiers needed for peacekeeping?

Very good question. So far France is sending only 200 troops, while the UN was hoping for minimum 3,000 from France... Isreal doesn't want Malaysian or Indonesian troops... Germany is sending mostly ships and logistical help...
My country's government is still willing to send a few thousand troops, but honestly, if we are alone, we'd be completely crazy to go

 

[Gerasimos]

Very good question. So far France is sending only 200 troops, while the UN was hoping for minimum 3,000 from France... Isreal doesn't want Malaysian or Indonesian troops... Germany is sending mostly ships and logistical help...
My country's government is still willing to send a few thousand troops, but honestly, if we are alone, we'd be completely crazy to go

What really bothers me is why do all the world expects only Europe "to take the snake out of the hole" as we say in my country,meaning that in all difficult situations Afghanistan,Iraq now Lebanon the international community thinks that the peacekeeping force should be mostly European,why not have a multinational force from all around the world,why 3000 Italians and not 100 Italians,100 from another country etc...Why should always Europeans be at the first line?Also I believe Israel should accept troops without excuses,if Israel doesn't want muslim countries in the multinational force then half or maybe more of the possible troops couldn't come.

 

[atilla]

thıs ıs why ı saıd multınatıonal polıce force should be deployed to stop and settel kınd of clashes between any state and terrorıst group

 

[Gerasimos]

thıs ıs why ı saıd multınatıonal polıce force should be deployed to stop and settel kınd of clashes between any state and terrorıst group

I disagree again with this.As I said again in a similar reply a multinational police force couldn't be capable of doing anything against neither side.for example let's say Hezbollah hits with rockets the police force what will do?use their M-16s or their sheilds?What is needed is army forces not police.

 

[contedicavour]

I disagree again with this.As I said again in a similar reply a multinational police force couldn't be capable of doing anything against neither side.for example let's say Hezbollah hits with rockets the police force what will do?use their M-16s or their sheilds?What is needed is army forces not police.

I agree. Policemen on their own would be sitting ducks against very heavily armed Hezbollahs and IDF.
This doesn't mean however that military policemen couldn't assume some of the missions, provided they remain within cover of MBTs and AIFVs (ideally helos also).

cheers

 

[.pt]

I also happen to agree with that.
My guess is that, whatever the force, military or police, European or other nationalities, their job on the terrain will be close to impossible, and they will suffer heavy casualties, as i don´t expect either side to truly respect the cease fire, except for regrouping and rearming purposes. The sides on this war have an history of disregarding UN peacekeeping forces, and i don´t expect that to change, because in reality UN forces on this place just don´t have the credibility to enforce the cease fire, because of composition of forces and RoE that makes them the laughing stock of both sides. Also their chain of command does not provide for decisions to be made in time, and in the past these forces have just been overrunned by unfolding actions, not having the time to react.
So, if you want to send light armed police to do an military job, it might turn into a tragedy.
Anyway, the decision is taking so long that, if either side decides to make another big move, this war will resume without having time for deployment of any sizeable force.
.pt

 

[TrangleC]

I heard a theory of a french political analyzer that sounds sinister but possible to me.
The Israelis and the Americans never hid that they are annoyed by the pro-palestinian and anti-occupation dominated public opinion in Europe.
The fact that the Israelis now suddenly are so keen to have european (and strangely they especially encouraged Germany to send troops) troops deployed in South Lebanon, might come from the idea that those troops might be pulled into a guerilla fight from Hezbollah and when the first coffins are shipped back to Europe, the public opinion in Europe might shift towards a more favourable direction for the Israelis.
That means they might hope the Europeans get pissed at Hezbollah and interfere less when the Israelis start a war against them the next time.

Whether there is something to this conspiracy theory or not, in any case it would be stupid to send soldiers there.
It's clear the Hezbollah won't just hand over their weapons and i see no reason why european soldiers should fight a guerilla war for the Israelis.

 

[merocaine]

Whether there is something to this conspiracy theory or not, in any case it would be stupid to send soldiers there.
It's clear the Hezbollah won't just hand over their weapons and i see no reason why european soldiers should fight a guerilla war for the Israelis.

true, the French are already getting cold feet, I think the whole thing is a non starter. Hezzbullah arent idiots, i dont think they would seek a direct confrountation with an intervention force, they know how to work around UN troops. Anyway I dont think the Israeli's are to be trusted around UN troops, they have a pretty shitty record in that regard.